If you are willing to receive it??

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de-emerald said:
Hi mate i understand completely what your saying. however mate the elect can be decieved also. im sorry mate but even the deciples of Jesus where decieved on numerous occasions. Its because the enemy has a 22 meanings to one word. and is so good at decieving. its not untill a person reaches older age do they become completly wise to all the enemies ways..
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Of course, if it can be shown scripturally why a certain viewpoint is unfounded in holy scripture, that viewpoint can be discarded and will be found to be not the truth.

And I don't think that deception is something that cannot be dealt with by having an accurate understanding of what is taught be holy scripture.

And, therefore, if it can be shown that my pov is unfounded in holy scripture, I will be glad to concede the point.

However, I find that Jesus commands us to pray (Luke 21:36) and believe (Mark 11:24) that we will be counted worthy to escape those things that are going to come upon the earth.
 
justbyfaith said:
Of course, if it can be shown scripturally why a certain viewpoint is unfounded in holy scripture, that viewpoint can be discarded and will be found to be not the truth.

And I don't think that deception is something that cannot be dealt with by having an accurate understanding of what is taught be holy scripture.

And, therefore, if it can be shown that my pov is unfounded in holy scripture, I will be glad to concede the point.

However, I find that Jesus commands us to pray (Luke 21:36) and believe (Mark 11:24) that we will be counted worthy to escape those things that are going to come upon the earth.
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I do think that scripture covers most eventualities. a lot of scripture is a persons hole life style of trials and tribulations. all tho some new modern day trials and tribs are different to back then.

but also a lot of new trials and tribs are new ways of the enemy too. we will allways need smart people and that can inclued younger people wiser beyond there years too.. anyhow go in peace you do have some good points of view
 
justbyfaith said:
There is a resurrection that takes place at the juncture of Revelation 11:15-18....because at that time the dead are judged and it is at that time that reward is given to prophets and saints. it is also at that juncture that the last trumpet that is mentioned in the book of Revelation occurs (see 1 Corinthians 15:52).
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Yes, very good at the seventh trumpet - Revelation is not straight line from point A to Z. It repeats Itself.

But no one is resurrected yet in chapter 11.

You also missed this in chapter 6
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Now go find the actual Resurrection in Revelation where these Saints and all are Resurrected.
 
justbyfaith said:
Of course, if it can be shown scripturally why a certain viewpoint is unfounded in holy scripture, that viewpoint can be discarded and will be found to be not the truth.

And I don't think that deception is something that cannot be dealt with by having an accurate understanding of what is taught be holy scripture.

And, therefore, if it can be shown that my pov is unfounded in holy scripture, I will be glad to concede the point.

However, I find that Jesus commands us to pray (Luke 21:36) and believe (Mark 11:24) that we will be counted worthy to escape those things that are going to come upon the earth.
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Yes, but if you use Luke 21: 34-36 in an attempt override a CLEAR ORDER of Christ's Return and the Resurrection, then you violate the Commandment of God and create a falsehood, which you do not want to be responsible for - do you?

In the Gospel of Matthew chapter 24 our Lord said directly that His Return is after the tribulation spoken of in Daniel.

Daniel, our Lord and the Apostles all agree about this.
 
Do you think that those who have received the mark, also are punished at the time of the first trumpet with boils on their skin?

Are the first trumpet judgment and the first bowl judgment one and the same?

That would place the mark, name, and number of the Beast before the first trumpet, btw.

Personally, I believe that we may be experiencing the first trumpet in recent days; with the fires that have been happening all over the world.
 
DavidTree said:
Yes, very good at the seventh trumpet - Revelation is not straight line from point A to Z. It repeats Itself.

But no one is resurrected yet in chapter 11.

You also missed this in chapter 6
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Now go find the actual Resurrection in Revelation where these Saints and all are Resurrected.
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You are placing the rapture at the beginning of the millennial period.

But why would God take us up in the first place if we are just going to come right back down?
 
DavidTree said:
Yes, but if you use Luke 21: 34-36 in an attempt override a CLEAR ORDER of Christ's Return and the Resurrection, then you violate the Commandment of God and create a falsehood, which you do not want to be responsible for - do you?

In the Gospel of Matthew chapter 24 our Lord said directly that His Return is after the tribulation spoken of in Daniel.

Daniel, our Lord and the Apostles all agree about this.
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I'll have to talk to my pastor about this one.
 
justbyfaith said:
You are placing the rapture at the beginning of the millennial period.

But why would God take us up in the first place if we are just going to come right back down?
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Good question.
When our Lord Returns, His Coming, where does Scripture say He first appears and what for?
 
justbyfaith said:
I'll have to talk to my pastor about this one.
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Yes, talk to your Pastor - but he may not know the correct answer hopefully he does.
Remember that you belong to Christ and not to religion. This is why i urge you to pray for the Holy Spirit.
The correct answer(s) is only in Scripture/God's Word.

Remind the believers of these things, charging them before God to avoid quarreling over words, which succeeds only in leading the listeners to ruin.
Make every effort to present yourself approved to God, an unashamed workman who accurately handles the word of truth.
But avoid irreverent, empty chatter, which will only lead to more ungodliness, and the talk of such men will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have deviated from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already occurred, and they undermine the faith of some.
2 Timothy 2:14-18
 
justbyfaith said:
I believe that it occurs near the end of Revelation 6 and that the purpose at that time is wrath.
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That is one point but not the first appearing location and reason.

Read Acts chapter 1 and then go back and read again 1 Thessalonians ch 4
 
However, the trumpets happen as part of the seventh seal (Revelation 8) and the seven bowls happen as a part of the seventh trumpet.
 
DavidTree said:
That is one point but not the first appearing location and reason.

Read Acts chapter 1 and then go back and read again 1 Thessalonians ch 4
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I have read those passages and I fail to see your point.

Why don't you just spell it out for me?
 
justbyfaith said:
I have read those passages and I fail to see your point.

Why don't you just spell it out for me?
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i do not have a point or opinion - do you fail to see what is written?

How you approach the Word will determine your understanding or lack thereof.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30: 5-6
 
At what juncture do you place the event of 1 Thessalonians 4?

In Acts 1, all I see that pertains to this conversation is the concept that when Jesus returns, we will see Him come back in the same manner in which the disciples saw Him go up into heaven.
 
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Is there a trumpet that is blown at the time of the first resurrection?

If so, why is it not mentioned in the Book of Revelation?

1 Co 15:51, Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
 
justbyfaith said:
Is there a trumpet that is blown at the time of the first resurrection?

If so, why is it not mentioned in the Book of Revelation?

1 Co 15:51, Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
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The Word of Truth is established in the mouth of two or three witnesses - Matthew 18:16
So now you have one witness which is the Apostle Paul as you posted here 1 Cor 15
Here is your second witness - Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Matthew 24: 29-31
 
justbyfaith said:
At what juncture do you place the event of 1 Thessalonians 4?

In Acts 1, all I see that pertains to this conversation is the concept that when Jesus returns, we will see Him come back in the same manner in which the disciples saw Him go up into heaven.
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This is not a 'concept' - this is the word of truth and it is not in symbolic form but an exact accounting of His Return.
 
DavidTree said:
The Word of Truth is established in the mouth of two or three witnesses - Matthew 18:16
So now you have one witness which is the Apostle Paul as you posted here 1 Cor 15
Here is your second witness - Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Matthew 24: 29-31
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Yes, I have known that when the Lord returns in the rapture of the church, there will be a trumpet of God and the voice of the archangel.

And there is a certain amount of tribulation that hits the earth prior to the seventh trumpet in Revelation 11:15-18.

So, is there anything in scripture that indicates a trumpet blast at the time of the first resurrection?

If, not, why not, if indeed there is one?
 
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