Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[Icedaisey]

Without election, the mercy and grace of God for salvation could not be possible.

True. Titus 3:5 He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Romans 9 (Parallel Chapters)


Love this article. Have you yet read it?
10. The Sovereignty of God in Salvation - (Romans 9:1-24)
Excerpted:
...What does it mean when we say that God is sovereign in salvation? Charles H. Spurgeon has said it about as well as can be said by men:


“First, then, DIVINE SOVEREIGNTY AS EXEMPLIFIED IN SALVATION. If any man be saved, he is saved by divine grace and by divine grace alone; the reason of his salvation is not to be found in him, but in God. We are not saved as the result of anything that we do or that we will, but we will and do as the result of God’s good pleasure and the work of His grace in our hearts. No sinner can prevent God; that is, he cannot go before Him, cannot anticipate Him. God is always first in the matter of salvation. He is before our convictions, before our desires, before our fears, and before our hopes. All that is good or ever will be good in us is preceded by the grace of God and is the effect of a divine cause within.”59

“Again, the grace of God is sovereign. By that we mean that God has an absolute right to give that grace where He chooses and to withhold it when He pleases. He is not bound to give it to any man, much less to all men; if He chooses to give it to one man and not to another, His answer is, ‘Is thine eye evil because mine eye is good? Can I not do as I will with mine own? I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.’”60

Scripture says the same thing, just as clearly and emphatically:


44 “No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day (John 6:44).


65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father” (John 6:65).


48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed (Acts 13:48).


14 And a certain woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul (Acts 16:14).


34 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35 Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen (Romans 11:34-36).


30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD” (1 Corinthians 1:30-31).


6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6).


5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).


2 Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God (Hebrews 12:2).


Those who are saved are saved because God has chosen them for salvation. The Holy Spirit has given life to a dead spirit and understanding to a mind blinded by sin and by Satan. Those who are saved may be said to choose God, but only after God has first chosen them for salvation:


16 “You did not choose Me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask of the Father in My name, He may give to you” (John 15:16).


The other side of the equation is also true. Those who are eternally lost are lost because God has not chosen them for salvation: "
Full Article

 

[FreeGrace2]

If you don't believe in election, then explain these verses.

The issue is not "believing in election". The issue is what is election TO? It's NOT salvation because there are NO verses that say that God unconditionally elects to salvation.

The bible, rather, tells us that one MUST believe to be saved. That is the very essence of a condition.

otoh, God's election to service IS unconditional. In fact, Eph 1:4 teaches unconditional election to service. iow, every believer has been chosen for service.

God wrote the names of all those to become saved into the book of life from the foundation of the world.

No, this isn't election. This is God's omniscience.

So, this book is a substantiation of the doctrine of election.

No, it's not.

Regardless of what someone may do or not do in this life, those who will become saved have already been determined.

Of course God has always known who will believe.

 

[FreeGrace2]

C'mon, you know the verse doesn't support the interpretation you've given it. It says "BORN" as in God MAKES
them BORN - born by His will. God's action, not ours

Are you suggesting that "being born again" is what causes belief? The Bible NEVER teaches that anywhere.

Our being regenerated or born again is a result of our believing. God gives new birth to those who believe.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
You just don't understand 1 Cor 2:14. It cannot be referring to understanding the gospel, because there are many examples of unbelievers who can very accurately describe what the gospel is, all the while rejecting it as truth.

In fact, v.6 and 10 speak of "wisdom for the mature" and the "deep things of God". These are the things that unbelievers cannot understand because it is these advanced doctrines that are for spiritual maturity, and that is irrelevant for unbelievers.

They can understand the gospel. Titus 2:11 makes that clear: For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

If everyone TRULY understands the gospel then the ones who "choose" Christ to save them are smarter, more wise and stronger willed than everyone who does not.

You have misunderstood again. I never said "everyone understands the gospel. I said there are many unbelievers who DO understand the gospel even while not believing it. Do you see the difference?

But, explain Titus 2:11 if your view is correct.

It would make it so that there indeed is something inside of us of Great Virtue that understands the things of God while people outside of Christianity don't have it.

The truth of Scripture is that God CREDITS righteousness to those who believe Him.

Gen 15:6 - Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

What does this mean to you?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Without election, the mercy and grace of God for salvation could not be possible.

Rather, without grace and mercy, salvation could not be possible.

Election has nothing to do with salvation. I've repeatedly asked for any verse that says election is to salvation and no one has stepped forward with such a verse.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

When God gives you faith "as a gift" do you get to keep the gift?

He gives the Holy Spirit, whose fruit is faith. Once given, the Holy Spirit remains.

We were discussing Ephesians 2:8 (For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God).



in Post #1,342 you indicated God gave you faith as a gift:

okay ... soooo did God give you faith?

Yes, as a gift. Why?

In Post #1,283, you posted Ephesians 2:8:

[Eph 2:8 KJV]
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

and you even bolded the words "grace" ... "through faith" ... "not of yourselves ... "gift of God"

So what is your understanding of Eph 2:8? What is the gift given by God?

Where are we going with this? It would probably be
a lot easier for both of us if you'd just make your point

It would be "easier for both of us" if you would quit waffling and just answer what is the gift given by God according to Ephesians 2:8.


Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The offer of reconciliation SEEMS to be offered to everyone. From our point of view.

Real Reconciliation is given to those whom God chooses. Gods People.

John 10:26-27
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.



Otherwise, you have people working for their Salvation by their own understanding and their own strength.

We are smarter, more wise, stronger, etc.. because we CHOSE Christ. But we can't say that. The Bible says that God has chosen those who are not wise, those who are not strong, to confound those who (think they) are...

No one can come to god in their own strength. I am not sure where this thinking comes from that if I chose to place my faith in someone who proves to be trustworthy by his word his people and his conviction that we have earned salvation

I can only earn salvation if I can do anything to save myself.

The penalty of sin is death. Separation from God. That’s what I owe. For all eternity. And even then it will
It be enough to cause God to forgive one sin

That’s why the tax collector got on his knees. Unable to lol up. Not because he if his own power chose to believe. But because God through his word his creation his people and his spirit convinced him of his bankrupt spirit and took him to his knees

I praise God he did that for me 45 years ago!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Everyone can read what I said...but you apparently.
You're not even in the vicinity of being in proper contextual response to my post that you quoted before you wrote what actually condemns you, above. First person, "I".

You weren't addressing what I said even before that. Which is why contrary to your charge to the contrary, again I said, my response never said those words: you don't believe OSAS! YOU claimed I stated that. Which is why I said, those words are nowhere near what I wrote in my post.
What you say above, given those facts, indicts you! First person, "I".
. Because no one on this site who is functionally literate can point to any post in my post history wherein I say I don't read the Bible. Nor is there any post in my history wherein I say I am not OSAS. But above? That's your posting, first person. "I".

I never said those things about you. The first sentence in your post is there to reiterate that. You're right in that first sentence. Everyone can read what I wrote.

Because I never said anything even remotely close to what you've written past that first sentence? THAT'S YOU!

Too late to edit before you realized your mistake? If you were able to? It is you who isn't fooling anyone.
That's God right there.
Beautiful.

You should just stop

To many of you try to blame shift when you have been caught red handed. Humble yourself show you have Christ’s spirit in you and admit you made a mistake
or keep denying the truth. And prove your Pharisee spirit

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If everyone TRULY understands the gospel then the ones who "choose" Christ to save them are smarter, more wise and stronger willed than everyone who does not.

It would make it so that there indeed is something inside of us of Great Virtue that understands the things of God while people outside of Christianity don't have it.


Probably won't find a whole lot of scripture to back that philosophy. It won't stop the humanists from trying.

Nope
I am not smarter
I just chose to accept the gift. And not continue in my denial

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Without election, the mercy and grace of God for salvation could not be possible.

Election gives us security. It is based on Gods knowledge. We need to stop pidgin holding God to having human flaws. And know due to predestination. I am saved forever. I am secure my salvation was before the foundation of the earth.

Because in the early 70s. I was given power to be a child of God because I received him in faith God knew that before time began. And based on that fact. He predestined me to eternal glory IN HIM

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We were discussing Ephesians 2:8 (For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God).



in Post #1,342 you indicated God gave you faith as a gift:





In Post #1,283, you posted Ephesians 2:8:



and you even bolded the words "grace" ... "through faith" ... "not of yourselves ... "gift of God"

So what is your understanding of Eph 2:8? What is the gift given by God?





It would be "easier for both of us" if you would quit waffling and just answer what is the gift given by God according to Ephesians 2:8.


Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

Salvation was the gift. Amen

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think some people just like to red x because they can

when someone red x’s the fact that predestination gives each believer security. You know it’s not because they really disagree

 

[rogerg]

I think some people just like to red x because they can

when someone red x’s the fact that predestination gives each believer security. You know it’s not because they really disagree

Hmmm- let me see now , you didn't have had me in mind with your statement above, did you? If so, and just to refresh
your memory a little, you had replied to my post. So, do I then have to reply to your reply? Is that what the protocol is? Anyway, I will say that based upon my recollection, I (and others) have addressed this topic many times, both explicitly and implicitly, so my reasons for disagreement with you are well known and can easily be found, in case you don't remember them.

I will say this however. that if salvation isn't received completely and totally as a gift, then whatever is required to get it, no
matter how slight, becomes work, and as such, totally negates God's mercy and grace. Election - God's choice of certain
people to salvation since before the foundation of the world - is the only doctrine that can truly satisfy , and be consistent with, mercy and grace. And the Bible is abundantly clear that no one can be saved by their work. Again, a work is anything whatsoever required
by someone to become saved.

The Bible is replete we confirmation of the doctrine of election. For example:

[2Th 2:13 KJV] 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hmmm- let me see now , you didn't have had me in mind with your statement above, did you? If so, and just to refresh
your memory a little, you had replied to my post. So, do I then have to reply to your reply? Is that what the protocol is? Anyway, I will say that based upon my recollection, I (and others) have addressed this topic many times, both explicitly and implicitly, so my reasons for disagreement with you are well known and can easily be found, in case you don't remember them.

I will say this however. that if salvation isn't received completely and totally as a gift, then whatever is required to get it, no
matter how slight, becomes work, and as such, totally negates God's mercy and grace. Election - God's choice of certain
people to salvation since before the foundation of the world - is the only doctrine that can truly satisfy , and be consistent with, mercy and grace. And the Bible is abundantly clear that no one can be saved by their work. Again, a work is anything whatsoever required
by someone to become saved.

The Bible is replete we confirmation of the doctrine of election. For example:

[2Th 2:13 KJV] 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

1. I believe in the doctrine of election. Just not your view of it
2. Funny how in this long rant. You did not directly respond to what you gave me a red X for. And show how what I said was wrong. (Which I am used to)
3. Salvation is a gift. Thank you. I realy want to thank you for agreeing with me that the gift in eph 2 8-9 is salvation. And not faith. It is THROUGH faith we are saved. And that salvation is a gift.
4. Predestination is the basis of our hope. If I have no hope of eternal life. I have no faith. If I have no hope that in the end, I will be in heaven and not in hell where I belong, then I can have no faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. The evidence of things not seen.
5. Faith is NOT a work. Again (since you continually refuse to answer) how in Gods name can my trust of someone else to save me when I am totally unable to save myself a work? You have works on your mind. And are so afraid to even think you might be saving yourself you can not see the truth
6. Once again. John 1-6 shows it is to those who RECIEVE, who BELIEVE, who ASK, who EAT, who DRINK, who CHEW that are given the gift of life. (those are the apostle johns and Jesus words not mine)

As I said before You are my brother. Sadly, you can not be like my brother Grandpa. You seem to be on some mission to attack anyone who does not agree with your fatalistic view of savation wrong. No matter what they say

You and I both believe we ar saved by grace through faith. And this salvation is eternal. You and I both believe we have been reconciled to God. You and I both believe we have eternal security in CHrist. And alongside our brother Grandpa. You and I will be laughing at how foolish we ar with these debates when we meet in heaven.

I pray for you my friend. Stop listening to your fatalistic hebrew roots sister icedaisy, and for once in our conversations try to listen to what I am saying and stop taking me so personal.

She claims I am not your brother because she did not believe I believed in Eternal security like you do. A fact she denies to this day. She can deny it all she wants, She continues to hurt her own testimony the longer she denies it.

My God says he resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.. Lets all seek His grace and not seek to boat because we are afraid to admit we made a mistake.

Or continue in this path of division because of things we were taught growing up.

 

[Icedaisey]

You should just stop

To many of you try to blame shift when you have been caught red handed. Humble yourself show you have Christ’s spirit in you and admit you made a mistake
or keep denying the truth. And prove your Pharisee spirit

You, again. All you.

God forgive you. He shall humble you from your obstinate pride. Meanwhile, it is up to us to insure false teaching is not let to go without being rebuked. We may presume there are innocent new Christians here. They enter a forum dedicated to Christ , per its header, and thinking they've found like minded people of Christ joined in community.


This is not directed at you. Just to insure you don't come after me for what I never said, again.
It would be irresponsible to ignore the wolves wearing wool and showing savage teeth. Hell awaits them. Let every sister and brother in Christ here commit to insuring they don't take any innocent naive person to the brink with them.

God predestined whom he would save before the foundation of the world. Their names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life for eternity.
No one comes to Christ Jesus unless the Father draws them. And no one, as Jesus promised, shall take us from his hand.
Jesus Sheep know his voice! And we follow him.
Jesus spoke in parables his teachings so that not all would understand and be healed. ""The Elect of God", is not a term that encapsulates a universal paradigm. If Universalism were true, it is not, the term, Elect, and Elect of God, would not enter into Jesus teachings or the Bible. Because the very term itself is contrary to all inclusive, universal, all souls on earth Salvation!

It's God.
It's God's Word.
Jesus was The Word made flesh who dwelt among us.
God predestined all things! How is this hard to comprehend? HE'S GOD! All that exists is of God and from God. Meaning, everything that exists operates according to God's creating it to work just so. Your anatomy, your body that regenerates, your organs that regenerate, are all operating according to God's plan and creation.

Thinking humans can freely operate to oppose God's will is the height of hubris. We can choose and overcome God's dominion.
That's what Lucifer thought.
And look where it got him.

How do we claim to believe in what the Bible teaches and then excerpt those parts we don't like to believe are true?

And one last thing, and this is just really really hard to comprehend.
How is it that those who are in Christ here argue against how they arrived at that place? Arguing against God having predestined their Salvation, and all things, according to his will, and plan, as scripture tells us all throughout the Bible. And as such post in what is an absurd monologue of self-denial as a Christian no less, and against God's Omnipotence.

Nooooo, it wasn't God's predestination of all things that led to the crucifixion and Salvation. (The Bible says different)
Nooooo, my name isn't in the Book of Life that was written before the creation, foundation, of the world because God knew my name before anything was made that is made. (The Bible says different)
Noooo, I didn't accept the Gospel as truth because it resonated as truth within me, and that's because, as Jesus said, but I don't believe this part, that no one comes to him except the Father draws them! That's not true! (The Bible says different)

I made a choice!
God has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! (The Bible says different)


Absurd! Every argument against God's words wherein he tells us all things are predestined, predetermined, preordained, BY HIM! Alpha and Omega, God Almighty! Absurd! And then to claim one is absurdly arguing against God's power while one of his? How does that happen?

I'm living proof God's plan of Salvation worked because I call myself a Christian.....But I didn't become a Christian according to God's plan of Salvation.

 

[Icedaisey]

You, again. All you.

God forgive you. He shall humble you from your obstinate pride. Meanwhile, it is up to us to insure false teaching is not let to go without being rebuked. We may presume there are innocent new Christians here. They enter a forum dedicated to Christ , per its header, and thinking they've found like minded people of Christ joined in community.


This is not directed at you. Just to insure you don't come after me for what I never said, again.
It would be irresponsible to ignore the wolves wearing wool and showing savage teeth. Hell awaits them. Let every sister and brother in Christ here commit to insuring they don't take any innocent naive person to the brink with them.

God predestined whom he would save before the foundation of the world. Their names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life for eternity.
No one comes to Christ Jesus unless the Father draws them. And no one, as Jesus promised, shall take us from his hand.
Jesus Sheep know his voice! And we follow him.
Jesus spoke in parables his teachings so that not all would understand and be healed. ""The Elect of God", is not a term that encapsulates a universal paradigm. If Universalism were true, it is not, the term, Elect, and Elect of God, would not enter into Jesus teachings or the Bible. Because the very term itself is contrary to all inclusive, universal, all souls on earth Salvation!

It's God.
It's God's Word.
Jesus was The Word made flesh who dwelt among us.
God predestined all things! How is this hard to comprehend? HE'S GOD! All that exists is of God and from God. Meaning, everything that exists operates according to God's creating it to work just so. Your anatomy, your body that regenerates, your organs that regenerate, are all operating according to God's plan and creation.

Thinking humans can freely operate to oppose God's will is the height of hubris. We can choose and overcome God's dominion.
That's what Lucifer thought.
And look where it got him.

How do we claim to believe in what the Bible teaches and then excerpt those parts we don't like to believe are true?

And one last thing, and this is just really really hard to comprehend.
How is it that those who are in Christ here argue against how they arrived at that place? Arguing against God having predestined their Salvation, and all things, according to his will, and plan, as scripture tells us all throughout the Bible. And as such post in what is an absurd monologue of self-denial as a Christian no less, and against God's Omnipotence.

Nooooo, it wasn't God's predestination of all things that led to the crucifixion and Salvation. (The Bible says different)
Nooooo, my name isn't in the Book of Life that was written before the creation, foundation, of the world because God knew my name before anything was made that is made. (The Bible says different)
Noooo, I didn't accept the Gospel as truth because it resonated as truth within me, and that's because, as Jesus said, but I don't believe this part, that no one comes to him except the Father draws them! That's not true! (The Bible says different)

I made a choice!
God has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! (The Bible says different)


Absurd! Every argument against God's words wherein he tells us all things are predestined, predetermined, preordained, BY HIM! Alpha and Omega, God Almighty! Absurd! And then to claim one is absurdly arguing against God's power while one of his? How does that happen?

I'm living proof God's plan of Salvation worked because I call myself a Christian.....But I didn't become a Christian according to God's plan of Salvation.

Yes, EG I know you're asleep. That's why you avoid responsibility for your actions here. Zzzzzz, just lets me know you're realizing that too.
That's a start. Keep following the leading of Christ and if it be his will you'll wake up.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You, again. All you.

God forgive you. He shall humble you from your obstinate pride. Meanwhile, it is up to us to insure false teaching is not let to go without being rebuked. We may presume there are innocent new Christians here. They enter a forum dedicated to Christ , per its header, and thinking they've found like minded people of Christ joined in community.


This is not directed at you. Just to insure you don't come after me for what I never said, again.
It would be irresponsible to ignore the wolves wearing wool and showing savage teeth. Hell awaits them. Let every sister and brother in Christ here commit to insuring they don't take any innocent naive person to the brink with them.

God predestined whom he would save before the foundation of the world. Their names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life for eternity.
No one comes to Christ Jesus unless the Father draws them. And no one, as Jesus promised, shall take us from his hand.
Jesus Sheep know his voice! And we follow him.
Jesus spoke in parables his teachings so that not all would understand and be healed. ""The Elect of God", is not a term that encapsulates a universal paradigm. If Universalism were true, it is not, the term, Elect, and Elect of God, would not enter into Jesus teachings or the Bible. Because the very term itself is contrary to all inclusive, universal, all souls on earth Salvation!

It's God.
It's God's Word.
Jesus was The Word made flesh who dwelt among us.
God predestined all things! How is this hard to comprehend? HE'S GOD! All that exists is of God and from God. Meaning, everything that exists operates according to God's creating it to work just so. Your anatomy, your body that regenerates, your organs that regenerate, are all operating according to God's plan and creation.

Thinking humans can freely operate to oppose God's will is the height of hubris. We can choose and overcome God's dominion.
That's what Lucifer thought.
And look where it got him.

How do we claim to believe in what the Bible teaches and then excerpt those parts we don't like to believe are true?

And one last thing, and this is just really really hard to comprehend.
How is it that those who are in Christ here argue against how they arrived at that place? Arguing against God having predestined their Salvation, and all things, according to his will, and plan, as scripture tells us all throughout the Bible. And as such post in what is an absurd monologue of self-denial as a Christian no less, and against God's Omnipotence.

Nooooo, it wasn't God's predestination of all things that led to the crucifixion and Salvation. (The Bible says different)
Nooooo, my name isn't in the Book of Life that was written before the creation, foundation, of the world because God knew my name before anything was made that is made. (The Bible says different)
Noooo, I didn't accept the Gospel as truth because it resonated as truth within me, and that's because, as Jesus said, but I don't believe this part, that no one comes to him except the Father draws them! That's not true! (The Bible says different)

I made a choice!
God has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! (The Bible says different)


Absurd! Every argument against God's words wherein he tells us all things are predestined, predetermined, preordained, BY HIM! Alpha and Omega, God Almighty! Absurd! And then to claim one is absurdly arguing against God's power while one of his? How does that happen?

I'm living proof God's plan of Salvation worked because I call myself a Christian.....But I didn't become a Christian according to God's plan of Salvation.

Thanks for proving once again you have utterly no idea what I believe

Jesus wept over Jerusalem because it was his will to gather them together as a mother hen. But they were unwilling

Yes they chose to willfully rebel against Gods will. So you telling people that we can not rebel against gods will is just false
God will humble us. It is just taking him longer to humble you.
But like I said keep talking. The more you talk. The more you prove me right.

 

[Icedaisey]

Thanks for proving once again you have utterly no idea what I believe

Jesus wept over Jerusalem because it was his will to gather them together as a mother hen. But they were unwilling

Yes they chose to willfully rebel against Gods will. So you telling people that we can not rebel against gods will is just false
God will humble us. It is just taking him longer to humble you.
But like I said keep talking. The more you talk. The more you prove me right.

May God forgive you your very strange perception of reality.
Re-Jerusalem? Hint: Hardened.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

May God forgive you your very strange perception of reality.
Re-Jerusalem? Hint: Hardened.

Matthew 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Willing Greek - Thelo - to wish to want. To desire. To purpose in your heart.

Sorry maam, The word hardened is not there. May God forgive you for changing what he said in his word.

 

[rogerg]

Election gives us security. It is based on Gods knowledge. We need to stop pidgin holding God to having human flaws. And know due to predestination. I am saved forever. I am secure my salvation was before the foundation of the earth.

If it was based upon God's knowledge, then why did He have to elect before the foundation of the world? What was its purpose; what did it accomplish? Why didn't He just wait for you to do whatever it is you think you did to get it, with Him knowing that you eventually would? Election is only meaningful if it is a central part of the process of salvation. Election negates any other doctrine that is perceived to achieve salvation.