2 Thessalonians 2:3 "the departure" IS intentionally describing the RAPTURE.
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I did.
Those [crowns] are being promised (for the "FUTURE") in that "things WHICH ARE" section (chpts 2-3, per 1:19b)... no one is yet WEARING them who are reading this letter from their location ON THE EARTH, would you say??
[1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 is the "FUTURE" aspects of the Book... the things which will take place "AFTER THESE THINGS" / after "the things WHICH ARE" things of chpts 2-3
... So 4:4 / 5:9 are stated within the FUTURE aspects of the Book SECTION]
Those [crowns] are being promised (for the "FUTURE") in that "things WHICH ARE" section (chpts 2-3, per 1:19b)... no one is yet WEARING them who are reading this letter from their location ON THE EARTH, would you say??
[1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 is the "FUTURE" aspects of the Book... the things which will take place "AFTER THESE THINGS" / after "the things WHICH ARE" things of chpts 2-3
... So 4:4 / 5:9 are stated within the FUTURE aspects of the Book SECTION]-
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Are you saying those titles which MEN supplied are to be EQUATED WITH SCRIPTURE?? (they are SCRIPTURES THEMSELVES??)
You seem to be alluding to as much... (especially in one of your previous posts...)
SCRIPTURE ITSELF NOWHERE NAMES the writer (of these four) as being "JOHN" (it seems you have no problem INJECTING that into the text of Scripture itself, despite Scripture itself NOWHERE STATING such... Why is that?)
You seem to be alluding to as much... (especially in one of your previous posts...)
SCRIPTURE ITSELF NOWHERE NAMES the writer (of these four) as being "JOHN" (it seems you have no problem INJECTING that into the text of Scripture itself, despite Scripture itself NOWHERE STATING such... Why is that?)
wow, you are too funny - this is hilarious - here is some help for you
Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.
But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past;
and they overthrow the faith of some.
Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
2 Timothy 2
Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.
But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past;
and they overthrow the faith of some.
Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
2 Timothy 2
How is what I put "striving about words"? when you have hinted toward the idea that "WRITTEN BY JOHN" is stated IN THE TEXT OF SCRIPTURE itself (nowhere in Scripture stated to be the case[!]), when ALL I AM SAYING is:
... particularly since you are always on about others not ADDING TO SCRIPTURE (whom you SUPPOSE to be DOING such a thing... but have not proved it...)
[yes, your number is on record... clear as a bell for all to see...]
... particularly since you are always on about others not ADDING TO SCRIPTURE (whom you SUPPOSE to be DOING such a thing... but have not proved it...)
[yes, your number is on record... clear as a bell for all to see...]
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^ Scripture doesn't state specifically who wrote Hebrews.
And I don't go around stating "Hebrews was written by [so-and-so]" definitively, or "what [so-and-so person's name] wrote in Hebrews," as though it states who wrote it, in Scripture itself (it doesn't state who wrote it).
[p.s. this is not to say I'm against referencing the TITLES they've been given... but just to say, like I said earlier, this is not to say that SCRIPTURE ITSELF states anywhere that this is who write these... and to explain WHY I pulled my answer from REV5:9 ]
And I don't go around stating "Hebrews was written by [so-and-so]" definitively, or "what [so-and-so person's name] wrote in Hebrews," as though it states who wrote it, in Scripture itself (it doesn't state who wrote it).
[p.s. this is not to say I'm against referencing the TITLES they've been given... but just to say, like I said earlier, this is not to say that SCRIPTURE ITSELF states anywhere that this is who write these... and to explain WHY I pulled my answer from REV5:9
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^ Scripture doesn't state specifically who wrote Hebrews.
And I don't go around stating "Hebrews was written by [so-and-so]" definitively, or "what [so-and-so person's name] wrote in Hebrews," as though it states who wrote it, in Scripture itself (it doesn't state who wrote it).
[p.s. this is not to say I'm against referencing the TITLES they've been given... but just to say, like I said earlier, this is not to say that SCRIPTURE ITSELF states anywhere that this is who write these... and to explain WHY I pulled my answer from REV5:9 ]
And I don't go around stating "Hebrews was written by [so-and-so]" definitively, or "what [so-and-so person's name] wrote in Hebrews," as though it states who wrote it, in Scripture itself (it doesn't state who wrote it).
[p.s. this is not to say I'm against referencing the TITLES they've been given... but just to say, like I said earlier, this is not to say that SCRIPTURE ITSELF states anywhere that this is who write these... and to explain WHY I pulled my answer from REV5:9
]
You had ASKED specifically for something Apostle John said.
So the ANSWER I provided (to your QUESTION) I gave FROM WHAT JOHN WROTE (not from an epistle Scripture itself does not STATE "John wrote"). I was EXPLAINING my REASON for giving my ANSWER from Revelation (instead).
Make sense??
[I don't have any problem with the 3 epistles which men label as "1-2-3 John" (I have a problem with saying "JOHN WROTE THESE"); same for what men label as "The Gospel of John" (I have a problem with saying "THESE ARE APOSTLE JOHN'S WORDS / WRITINGS")--see the DIFF?? I was just providing my RESPONSE / ANSWER from that which JOHN ACTUALLY WROTE, which was your QUESTION, see]
So the ANSWER I provided (to your QUESTION) I gave FROM WHAT JOHN WROTE (not from an epistle Scripture itself does not STATE "John wrote"). I was EXPLAINING my REASON for giving my ANSWER from Revelation (instead).
Make sense??
[I don't have any problem with the 3 epistles which men label as "1-2-3 John" (I have a problem with saying "JOHN WROTE THESE"); same for what men label as "The Gospel of John" (I have a problem with saying "THESE ARE APOSTLE JOHN'S WORDS / WRITINGS")--see the DIFF?? I was just providing my RESPONSE / ANSWER from that which JOHN ACTUALLY WROTE, which was your QUESTION, see]
All I was doing was explaining why I responded with something from Revelation rather than from where you were expecting an answer to be derived from [solely], since your question (which I quoted, see below) referred "Apostle John" [on the subject pertaining to] "Antichrist" (<--which SPECIFIC wording is found in 1 John 2:18--and elsewhere in 1Jn)...
... I was EXPLAINING my REASONS for going outside of 1 John to address your SPECIFIC QUESTION (where you likely expected a response to have come from 1Jn)... TO have my ANSWER be from where "Apostle John" actually ADDRESSES this (which I showed in my post... and many other posts I've made on the issue of "CHRONOLOGY"--you seem to be missing HALF OF IT, when you say the first item of the AC's career is what is referred to in 2Th2:4 "SITTETH"... it's not).
Try not to make my words / explanation out to be any more than it actually is.
... I was EXPLAINING my REASONS for going outside of 1 John to address your SPECIFIC QUESTION (where you likely expected a response to have come from 1Jn)... TO have my ANSWER be from where "Apostle John" actually ADDRESSES this (which I showed in my post... and many other posts I've made on the issue of "CHRONOLOGY"--you seem to be missing HALF OF IT, when you say the first item of the AC's career is what is referred to in 2Th2:4 "SITTETH"... it's not).
Try not to make my words / explanation out to be any more than it actually is.
I actually don't think there are that many genuine post-trib proponents here. I think they assume that position, as those who also assume the, God didn't predestine Salvation and the Lamb's Book of Life written before the foundation of the world story is a lie, because they want to incite Christians to become upset with their obstinate pov. And they also want to see just how long we'll labor to change minds that have absolutely no intention of changing, because their minds are made up to mock and troll Christians.
Seriously. It's so obvious. Who, when they claim the name of Christ, insists they're not a Christian according to God's plan having unfolded to include them before the foundation of the world? Nobody.
That's the biggest most stark neon yellow tell behind the whole argument those type people pursue.
They're anti-Gospel, as God laid out in it being predestined before the foundation of the world! BUT, they're an example God's plan works as planned because there they are telling us they're in Christ because it did work as planned. God called them and they responded because the call of God is spiritually discerned. Fallen people aren't able to hear. But those whom God predestined shall.
God saved his church through predestination of his plan. (And the Bible is full of prophecy! Which is, guess what, those things God predetermined would to occur!)
Same with the lot that insist post-tribulation rapture is reality in scripture. Who believes that when it isn't scripture in the first place?
When at the end of time it's all going to hit the fan, God is going to insure the church he saved suffers the great tribulation , his wrath! That he tells us he will pour onto a fallen rebellious world. Lets not forget in the midst of these discussions the 7 seals, bowls, vials.
So much for the church being saved, huh? Wrath, laid upon a rebellious fallen world. AND THE CHURCH IS THERE TOO! What fun! Salvation, NOT!
We'll suffer God's wrath on earth and then leave! Anyone read the description of the great tribulation? Does that sound like something the church God predestined to save would be found deserving by the God that saved them before he created THE WORLD!?
Seriously. It's so obvious. Who, when they claim the name of Christ, insists they're not a Christian according to God's plan having unfolded to include them before the foundation of the world? Nobody.
That's the biggest most stark neon yellow tell behind the whole argument those type people pursue.
They're anti-Gospel, as God laid out in it being predestined before the foundation of the world! BUT, they're an example God's plan works as planned because there they are telling us they're in Christ because it did work as planned. God called them and they responded because the call of God is spiritually discerned. Fallen people aren't able to hear. But those whom God predestined shall.
God saved his church through predestination of his plan. (And the Bible is full of prophecy! Which is, guess what, those things God predetermined would to occur!)
Same with the lot that insist post-tribulation rapture is reality in scripture. Who believes that when it isn't scripture in the first place?
When at the end of time it's all going to hit the fan, God is going to insure the church he saved suffers the great tribulation , his wrath! That he tells us he will pour onto a fallen rebellious world. Lets not forget in the midst of these discussions the 7 seals, bowls, vials.
So much for the church being saved, huh? Wrath, laid upon a rebellious fallen world. AND THE CHURCH IS THERE TOO! What fun! Salvation, NOT!
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All I was doing was explaining why I responded with something from Revelation rather than from where you were expecting an answer to be derived from [solely], since your question (which I quoted, see below) referred "Apostle John" [on the subject pertaining to] "Antichrist" (<--which SPECIFIC wording is found in 1 John 2:18--and elsewhere in 1Jn)...
... I was EXPLAINING my REASONS for going outside of 1 John to address your SPECIFIC QUESTION (where you likely expected a response to have come from 1Jn)... TO have my ANSWER be from where "Apostle John" actually ADDRESSES this (which I showed in my post... and many other posts I've made on the issue of "CHRONOLOGY"--you seem to be missing HALF OF IT, when you say the first item of the AC's career is what is referred to in 2Th2:4 "SITTETH"... it's not).
Try not to make my words / explanation out to be any more than it actually is.
... I was EXPLAINING my REASONS for going outside of 1 John to address your SPECIFIC QUESTION (where you likely expected a response to have come from 1Jn)... TO have my ANSWER be from where "Apostle John" actually ADDRESSES this (which I showed in my post... and many other posts I've made on the issue of "CHRONOLOGY"--you seem to be missing HALF OF IT, when you say the first item of the AC's career is what is referred to in 2Th2:4 "SITTETH"... it's not).
Try not to make my words / explanation out to be any more than it actually is.
Where does the Apostle John, in his letters or his Gospel say that the pre-trib rapture comes before the Antichrist
simple, straight forward verse(s) is what we are to look at that speak directly to His Coming - thank you
