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see my point about Moses having a powerful witness of Christ is to look at the pattern he was given in the law , the Passover speaks of Christ , the atonement sacrifice speaks of Christ , the sin sacrifice both the one that bore away the sin of the people alive and the other who died for the sins of the people , just for a few examples the law itself is a witness of Christ
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It means that John did not interpret Jesus' words as Him saying that he would not die.
However, other disciples saw the meaning in Jesus' words. The implication was that John would not die but that he would remain until the 2nd coming of Christ.
Of course it was only an implication. For His exact words were, "If I will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?"
So, Jesus may or may not have been saying that John would remain until the 2nd coming.
However, other disciples saw the meaning in Jesus' words. The implication was that John would not die but that he would remain until the 2nd coming of Christ.
Of course it was only an implication. For His exact words were, "If I will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?"
So, Jesus may or may not have been saying that John would remain until the 2nd coming.
And what the other Disciples "saw" became the "Rumor" - this is why the Scripture debunks the rumor by saying:
Jesus did not say that he would not die
It is clear then what Jesus meant when HE said to Peter - what is that to you?
Jesus is saying(imho) - It is none of your business Peter - focus on ME, I can do what I do.
This reminds me of Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM"
Jesus did not say that he would not die
It is clear then what Jesus meant when HE said to Peter - what is that to you?
Jesus is saying(imho) - It is none of your business Peter - focus on ME, I can do what I do.
This reminds me of Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM"
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Jesus may or may not have been saying that John would remain on the earth until the 2nd coming.
All John was saying was that Jesus did not say in a straightforward manner that he would definitely remain until then.
The Lord simply implied the situation.
You're right that He said that it was none of Peter's business.
Nevertheless the rumour may have in fact been a correct one; though John himself disagreed with it.
All John was saying was that Jesus did not say in a straightforward manner that he would definitely remain until then.
The Lord simply implied the situation.
You're right that He said that it was none of Peter's business.
Nevertheless the rumour may have in fact been a correct one; though John himself disagreed with it.
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yea it’s just my own take , I don’t think revelation is a literal book of you notice revelation is the only book I’m scripture that’s predominately written from the viewpoint of looking from heaven into earth. From this point forward
“After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”
Revelation 4:1 KJV
so my view is we’re seeing spiritual imagery that’s meant to give us understanding of the rest of scripture that was written from an earthly perspective.
I don’t think there’s going to be a dragon , a giant beast riding from the sea , a woman clothed with the sun and moon and having twelve stars as a crown , I don’t think there’s going to be a scarlet beast she’s later found riding upon ect
I believe those things are understanding ding of the meaning of other prophecy giving us understanding ding we couldn’t otherwise have.
I think ( just my own thought ) that John is seeing a vision from heavens spiritual perspective and was given apocalypse for the church to better understand the salvation story and state of the creation.
so I don’t think there are going to be teo
Literal Men the same way I don’t think we’re going to see the rest of revelation literally but those images and imagery is meant to offer us deeper understanding of what’s going on in heaven and earth since Christ was raised up to sit on his throne
but brother you don’t have to think the same things it’s just a discussion, and other views are welcome in my opinion.
“After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”
Revelation 4:1 KJV
so my view is we’re seeing spiritual imagery that’s meant to give us understanding of the rest of scripture that was written from an earthly perspective.
I don’t think there’s going to be a dragon , a giant beast riding from the sea , a woman clothed with the sun and moon and having twelve stars as a crown , I don’t think there’s going to be a scarlet beast she’s later found riding upon ect
I believe those things are understanding ding of the meaning of other prophecy giving us understanding ding we couldn’t otherwise have.
I think ( just my own thought ) that John is seeing a vision from heavens spiritual perspective and was given apocalypse for the church to better understand the salvation story and state of the creation.
so I don’t think there are going to be teo
Literal Men the same way I don’t think we’re going to see the rest of revelation literally but those images and imagery is meant to offer us deeper understanding of what’s going on in heaven and earth since Christ was raised up to sit on his throne
but brother you don’t have to think the same things it’s just a discussion, and other views are welcome in my opinion.
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yes I think you are looking at it as a literal vision and I’m looking at it very differently which is okay, but im looking at it as an apocalypse not a telling of a literal physical story.
many times in the prophets Gods word is reckoned to a devouring fire , all
Consuming fire that destroys the wicked. And the wicked hate his word and fear his word that destroys the wicked.
I think , the law and prophets were taken up in the vision , because the New Testament had finally come and they had been fulfilled in Christs life ministry , death and resurrection and ascention into heaven . And the New Testament had come
if you notice just after they are taken up it’s announced that the kingdoms of the world have become Christs and the. Soon after you start seeing things in the New Testament like Jesus being taken up and seated on the throne , Satan being cast into earth and earring against those who have the testimony of Jesus ( gospel )
so for instance this in my view
“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: ( psalm 2) and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
Revelation 12:5 KJV
is this “Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.”
Luke 22:69 KJV
“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
Mark 16:19 KJV
and another example is this
“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
Revelation 12:17 KJV
is this situation the church is dealing with
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
1 Peter 5:8-9 KJV
but I’m just offering you an example of how I see revelation I don’t think it’s literal but a spiritual vision offering revelation to the church. I think the two men and the events surrounding them aren’t literal but are very significant
many times in the prophets Gods word is reckoned to a devouring fire , all
Consuming fire that destroys the wicked. And the wicked hate his word and fear his word that destroys the wicked.
I think , the law and prophets were taken up in the vision , because the New Testament had finally come and they had been fulfilled in Christs life ministry , death and resurrection and ascention into heaven . And the New Testament had come
if you notice just after they are taken up it’s announced that the kingdoms of the world have become Christs and the. Soon after you start seeing things in the New Testament like Jesus being taken up and seated on the throne , Satan being cast into earth and earring against those who have the testimony of Jesus ( gospel )
so for instance this in my view
“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: ( psalm 2) and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
Revelation 12:5 KJV
is this “Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.”
Luke 22:69 KJV
“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
Mark 16:19 KJV
and another example is this
“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
Revelation 12:17 KJV
is this situation the church is dealing with
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
1 Peter 5:8-9 KJV
but I’m just offering you an example of how I see revelation I don’t think it’s literal but a spiritual vision offering revelation to the church. I think the two men and the events surrounding them aren’t literal but are very significant
“When the bible is dead?”
when the Old Testament was fulfilled and it’s authority left the earth remember the ot was speaking forth doom upon all Mankind ?
“For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.”
Isaiah 34:2 KJV
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
it wasn’t a pleasant message in the ot as the world turned away from God his word became a terrifying thing and an accusation against all sinners ( all man )
“The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
Psalm 14:2-3 KJV
But Christs coming with the gospel gave man hope again as the ot was fulfilled and it’s authority was taken from earth.
an I didn’t say i think it’s a metophore I’m saying it’s spiritual reality that we can’t see because we’re flesh and blood. And revelation offers us Vision of thkngs we can’t see with our eyes. Y showing us a vision given of Gods perspective who sees the spiritual reality of what’s happening on earth
so it appears to us in figures because of our lack of spiritual understanding
when the Old Testament was fulfilled and it’s authority left the earth remember the ot was speaking forth doom upon all Mankind ?
“For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.”
Isaiah 34:2 KJV
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
it wasn’t a pleasant message in the ot as the world turned away from God his word became a terrifying thing and an accusation against all sinners ( all man )
“The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
Psalm 14:2-3 KJV
But Christs coming with the gospel gave man hope again as the ot was fulfilled and it’s authority was taken from earth.
an I didn’t say i think it’s a metophore I’m saying it’s spiritual reality that we can’t see because we’re flesh and blood. And revelation offers us Vision of thkngs we can’t see with our eyes. Y showing us a vision given of Gods perspective who sees the spiritual reality of what’s happening on earth
so it appears to us in figures because of our lack of spiritual understanding