The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???

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Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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People die and go to paradise, to away their ressurection. Their new bodies (the reason we are ressurected) and receive our rewards.

We do not receive our robes, our crowns, and our new bodies UNTIL we are resurrected.

So why are these ressurected people in the throne room if NOBODY has as of yet been resurrected?
The great multitude? Who said they are resurrected? Or that they have crowns?
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Those are the cry's of the saints. when will you avenge our blood.

Thats not these people we are discussing here

The tribulation saints have not been resurrected yet.
They came out of the great tribulation.
The bible says the antichrist overcomes the saints.
That is what you are seeing. Millions martyred by the ac
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Cant have the marriage supper until after the Great Tribulation, all His included.
Correct! (y)

It also INCLUDES those saints who will (at the END of the trib yrs) be "still-living" and who ENTER the MK age [aka "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER"] in their "still-living" mortal bodies (capable of reproducing / bearing children)... aka the "BLESSED" (about 8-10 "BLESSED" passages speaking to this very point... Daniel 12:13, for one example... Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 for another example).




[I realize a great many "former 'pre-tribbers'" have rejected the pre-trib viewpoint in many cases because of being taught an incorrect version of it! The above ^ aspect being one of those areas...]
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
They came out of the great tribulation.
The bible says the antichrist overcomes the saints.
That is what you are seeing. Millions martyred by the ac
yes, they are there also

I am speaking of the elders, who praised God he washed them in his blood and praised they would be kings and priests
 

Clayman

Active member
May 30, 2021
363
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Correct! (y)

It also INCLUDES those saints who will (at the END of the trib yrs) be "still-living" and who ENTER the MK age [aka "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER"] in their "still-living" mortal bodies (capable of reproducing / bearing children)... aka the "BLESSED" (about 8-10 "BLESSED" passages speaking to this very point... Daniel 12:13, for one example... Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 for another example).




[I realize a great many "former 'pre-tribbers'" have rejected the pre-trib viewpoint in many cases because of being taught an incorrect version of it! The above ^ aspect being one of those areas...]
Agreed, and another reason post trib makes zero sense, if all believers are raptured and are clothed in immortality, when the Lord arrives to set up His kingdom in Israel, there are no longer any mortal saints left to enter the kingdom, which means no aging or children for they shall be like angels no longer given in marriage.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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He was over a mile ABOVE IT.

JUST LIKE THE CHURCH WILL BE
AGREE -If you and i are alive (should it happen in our lifetime) at His Coming we will witness the Resurrection of Saints and then we will be caught up together to be with the Lord - and no one can stop us - Amen
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Agreed, and another reason post trib makes zero sense, if all believers are raptured and are clothed in immortality, when the Lord arrives to set up His kingdom in Israel, there are no longer any mortal saints left to enter the kingdom, which means no aging or children for they shall be like angels no longer given in marriage.
He restores Israel and He is the Creator of all nations on earth - there is more to His Story - He does not reveal ALL things to us.
What is important to us is what He did say - not what He did not say. None of us have perfect understanding and pure clarity.
We do have what was clearly established by our Lord and the Apostles.
We should not be concerned over How God fulfills His Word but what He permitted for us to know.

Like putting the cart before the horse - never works out - does it.

Let us not forget it is His Kingdom Come, Thy Will be Done...........
 

Clayman

Active member
May 30, 2021
363
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AGREE -If you and i are alive (should it happen in our lifetime) at His Coming we will witness the Resurrection of Saints and then we will be caught up together to be with the Lord - and no one can stop us - Amen
If you somehow stay a float and survive the judgment of the flood that God used on unbelieving mankind, would be the more parallel scenario
 
Aug 2, 2021
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If you somehow stay a float and survive the judgment of the flood that God used on unbelieving mankind, would be the more parallel scenario
And Noah did exactly that.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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WHAT?


I know, 1 Thess 14-18

Again, Holy Spirit is in THOSE Who are His, Omnipresent, and He will never leave or forsake THose WHO are HIs, never has, never will.
THIS CHurch:
Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matt 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Again you give satan to much credit, "....the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
This is a whole different discussion concerning the state of "The Church"

God Bless!
To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of the First and the Last, who died and returned to life.
9I know your affliction and your poverty—though you are rich! And I am aware of the slander of those who falsely claim to be Jews, but are in fact a synagogue of Satan.
10Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death.

To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
These are the words of the One who holds the sharp, double-edged sword.
13I know where you live, where the throne of Satan sits.
Yet you have held fast to My name and have not denied your faith in Me, even in the day when My faithful witness Antipas was killed among you, where Satan dwells.
14But I have a few things against you, because some of you hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to place a stumbling block before the Israelites so they would eat food sacrificed to idols and commit sexual immorality. 15In the same way, some of you also hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16Therefore repent! Otherwise I will come to you shortly and wage war against them with the sword of My mouth.
17He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who overcomes, I will give the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone inscribed with a new name, known only to the one who receives it.


It has always been the LORD and His Holy Spirit that has restrained satan.
In no way does the Church restrain satan.

Putting the Church before God is how all the mess is created.
 
Aug 20, 2021
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He restores Israel and He is the Creator of all nations on earth - there is more to His Story - He does not reveal ALL things to us.
What is important to us is what He did say - not what He did not say. None of us have perfect understanding and pure clarity.
We do have what was clearly established by our Lord and the Apostles.
We should not be concerned over How God fulfills His Word but what He permitted for us to know.

Like putting the cart before the horse - never works out - does it.

Let us not forget it is His Kingdom Come, Thy Will be Done...........
Let us not forget it is His Kingdom Come, be thy his will well be done.
 

Clayman

Active member
May 30, 2021
363
100
43
He restores Israel and He is the Creator of all nations on earth - there is more to His Story - He does not reveal ALL things to us.
What is important to us is what He did say - not what He did not say. None of us have perfect understanding and pure clarity.
We do have what was clearly established by our Lord and the Apostles.
We should not be concerned over How God fulfills His Word but what He permitted for us to know.

Like putting the cart before the horse - never works out - does it.

Let us not forget it is His Kingdom Come, Thy Will be Done...........
I try and read the passages without bias, or looking at it from a pre trib or post trib point of view, (I know no one actually does this, but I try) but pre-trib does seem to have clarity and answers while the post trib view has a lot of un-answered questions.

Yet I believe if I don't see something completely it's because of me, not because God hasn't revealed it, for God has given us a complete revelation and revealed His perfect will through His Word.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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I try and read the passages without bias, or looking at it from a pre trib or post trib point of view, (I know no one actually does this, but I try) but pre-trib does seem to have clarity and answers while the post trib view has a lot of un-answered questions.

Yet I believe if I don't see something completely it's because of me, not because God hasn't revealed it, for God has given us a complete revelation and revealed His perfect will through His Word.
i am puzzled by this "pre-trib does seem to have some clarity" since there is not one scripture that refers to it.

How is it you do not see what Jesus clearly said: "Immediately after the Tribulation - He will gather His Elect" Matt 24:29-30

He clearly said AFTER the Tribulation He will Gather us and with a Loud Trumpet which is exactly what 1 Thess 4 says.

Where are the pre-trib rapture verses? - no one in the past 3 Months has been able to come up with even one.

Do you believe God? He said the Resurrection takes place after the Great Tribulation - Rev 20

Does God lie? Does He have Two Different Gospels? Does HE change His Mind and therefore Scripture is unreliable?
 
Nov 17, 2017
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Putting the Church before God is how all the mess is created.
?
Are you referring to a physical church?
Im Not
"THE body" of CHrist is His Church and He is the head of the body...
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

and the foudation that THIS "Church" is built on
AGain:
Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matt 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

That Rock is THE CHrist and those who are His are the "lively stones" and build on HIM the foundation:

1Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pet 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pet 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pet 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Holy Spirit is in the Body, in each lively stone.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
.......Not for the world.
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

"The Body" will be recalled to the Head, the Body goes Holy Spirit goes with them, in this instance.

God Bless
 
Aug 2, 2021
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?
Are you referring to a physical church?
Im Not
"THE body" of CHrist is His Church and He is the head of the body...
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

and the foudation that THIS "Church" is built on
AGain:
Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matt 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

That Rock is THE CHrist and those who are His are the "lively stones" and build on HIM the foundation:

1Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pet 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pet 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pet 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Holy Spirit is in the Body, in each lively stone.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
.......Not for the world.
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

"The Body" will be recalled to the Head, the Body goes Holy Spirit goes with them.

God Bless
The Saints/His Body the Seven Churches in Revelation were Physical Bodies.
You are referring to a Physical Temple called the Body of Christ, who we are and are on earth - His Physical Temple = us.
The Holy Spirit dwells in us, Pots of Clay we are called.

The Holy Spirit is always referred to as HE -male gender just like Father and Son HE HIM HIS

The Bride of Christ/the Church is always referred to as Her She - female gender - God is not confuse like people today.

When the Holy Spirit, who alone, restrains the coming of the wicked one. At the appointed time HE will allow the man of sin to be revealed. But the Holy Spirit never leaves us - HE only permits the wicked one to come forth.

We see this with the Lord at the Last Supper with Judas. "What you do, do quickly" = "for the devil knows his time is short"

The Saints who have died are with the LORD in Heaven, Face to Face with the Lord.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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The rapture verses are all pretrib.
That's funny. NONE of the rapture verses have ANY mention of Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven. Zero.

Neither of you can discern that
Can YOU discern that NONE of the rapture verses say anything about Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven?

Of course you can't. Because there aren't any.

But, there are verses that specifically place the rapture at the Second Advent. 2 Thess 2:1-3
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Jesus used lot and noah to illustrate the rapture.

I guess you missed Jesus words
I guess you missed the FACT that none of the rapture verses show Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.

Which is the CENTRAL POINT of a pre-trib rapture.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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?
Are you referring to a physical church?
Im Not
"THE body" of CHrist is His Church and He is the head of the body...
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

and the foudation that THIS "Church" is built on
AGain:
Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Matt 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

That Rock is THE CHrist and those who are His are the "lively stones" and build on HIM the foundation:

1Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pet 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pet 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pet 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Holy Spirit is in the Body, in each lively stone.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
.......Not for the world.
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

"The Body" will be recalled to the Head, the Body goes Holy Spirit goes with them, in this instance.

God Bless
1 Thess 4 is speaking to a physical Temple - His Children on earth
Matt 24: the Physical Christ is speaking to His Physical Bride = the Disciples