The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???
- Thread starter DavidTree
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Those are the souls of the Saints in Heaven, in the Presence of God under the Altar
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Have you not read?
1Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pet 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pet 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pet 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pet 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pet 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pet 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
Is Absolutely saying that Noah died and went to heaven?In a Allegory since, we are both we die thus are flooded via baptism and yet save from the lies the flood of the dragon via the love boat the ark,
What if He did this to make the riches of His glory known to the vessels of His mercy, whom He prepared in advance for glory— 24including us, whom He has called not only from the Jews, but also from the Gentiles? 25As He says in Hosea:
“I will call them ‘My People’ who are not My people,
and I will call her ‘My Beloved’ who is not My beloved,”i
26and,
“It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
they will be called
‘sons of the living God.’ ”
“I will call them ‘My People’ who are not My people,
and I will call her ‘My Beloved’ who is not My beloved,”i
26and,
“It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
they will be called
‘sons of the living God.’ ”
My guess is you already know the pre-trib view point of this, so my challenge to you is, just to be open minded and to see if when you combine all the verses of the bible together form either post or pre trib, to see if it does line up.
Verse 30 of Matt 24, (immediately after the tribulation) tells us the tribes will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds and they will mourn, the tribes are Israel, please Note: they see Him coming, not see themselves coming with Him!
They will look upon the one whom they have pierced and from the four corners or winds of the earth they will be gathered to Israel, these are the unchanged/mortals who enter into the promised Kingdom, who will be over the other nations for a thousand years.
A trumpet or shofar is always used to gather and to signal Israel to move, so does not have to point to the trumpet sounded for the Church.
This lines up perfectly and harmonises all of scripture with the pre-trib point of view as opposed to dealing with verses in isolation.
lol, Im sure from a one eyed post trib point of view there are no verses whatsoever that show a pre-trib view
How about the one where Jesus will not leave His bride to endure the day of the Lord, the terrible day of His wrath.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 1thes5:9
Or the verse that tells us the day of the Lord shall not come till the departure occurs first,
1thes 2:2-3 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ(the Lord) is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first(departure), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
Isa 13:6-9 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Exactly, the tribulation saints have to be resurrected as well, they are not going to be left dead for eternity are they.
Lol, to hold a different non essential point of view to you does not suggest those that disagree with you are making God a liar, nor making a new gospel, or making God change His mind, I would never use such tactics because I learn new things all the time and believe it or not it makes me change my stance on certain positions, so I would never berate anyone not for not agreeing 100%
with me, in case I change my mind.
Verse 30 of Matt 24, (immediately after the tribulation) tells us the tribes will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds and they will mourn, the tribes are Israel, please Note: they see Him coming, not see themselves coming with Him!
They will look upon the one whom they have pierced and from the four corners or winds of the earth they will be gathered to Israel, these are the unchanged/mortals who enter into the promised Kingdom, who will be over the other nations for a thousand years.
A trumpet or shofar is always used to gather and to signal Israel to move, so does not have to point to the trumpet sounded for the Church.
This lines up perfectly and harmonises all of scripture with the pre-trib point of view as opposed to dealing with verses in isolation.
lol, Im sure from a one eyed post trib point of view there are no verses whatsoever that show a pre-trib view
How about the one where Jesus will not leave His bride to endure the day of the Lord, the terrible day of His wrath.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 1thes5:9
Or the verse that tells us the day of the Lord shall not come till the departure occurs first,
1thes 2:2-3 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ(the Lord) is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first(departure), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
Isa 13:6-9 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Exactly, the tribulation saints have to be resurrected as well, they are not going to be left dead for eternity are they.
Lol, to hold a different non essential point of view to you does not suggest those that disagree with you are making God a liar, nor making a new gospel, or making God change His mind, I would never use such tactics because I learn new things all the time and believe it or not it makes me change my stance on certain positions, so I would never berate anyone not for not agreeing 100%
with me, in case I change my mind.