Our Lord Jesus Became a Curse?

[Journeyman]

Paul said,

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Gal.3:10, Deut.27:26

We all know that our Savior never violated the law in any way, so he could not be cursed by the law, but then Paul says,

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree Gal.3:13, Deut.21:23

Does God truly curse an innocent man by a method of execution? Paul was citing a passage that qualifies being cursed by the law which says,

And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:Deut.21:22

So it isn't being hanged on a tree, but committing sin that brings the curse on an individual. What Paul is teaching here, is that Jesus was falsely accused, wronfully thought of as accursed of God by the people who condemned him and others passing by the cross.

 

[Journeyman]

The punishment that sinners suffer is just. The punishment our Lord suffered was unjust. The death penalty for sins or crimes worthy of death is just, but putting an innocent man to death is unjust. The sins our Lord "experienced" were the sins of rejecting him and all the horrible treatment that went with it.

Theologians misinterpret Gal.3:10 to mean that Jesus was being seen as accursed by his Father. That's not true.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The punishment that sinners suffer is just. The punishment our Lord suffered was unjust. The death penalty for sins or crimes worthy of death is just, but putting an innocent man to death is unjust. The sins our Lord "experienced" were the sins of rejecting him and all the horrible treatment that went with it.

The Bible says all our sin were laid on Him. He paid the sin debt for all sins, not just certain ones.

Theologians misinterpret Gal.3:10 to mean that Jesus was being seen as accursed by his Father. That's not true.[/QUOTE]
" For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

Not sure how this is relevant to Christ's death on the cross.

2 Cor 5:21 - God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

This says that God judged Jesus for our sins. iow, He paid the debt of sin that we owe.

 

[justbyfaith]

1Co 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Jesus did become a curse for us when He hung upon the Cross / tree;

However, He is not accursed;

For He is risen from the dead.

 

[Journeyman]

The Bible says all our sin were laid on Him.

Yes, but this an example,

These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lyingtongue, and hands that shed innocent blood An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. Pro.6:16-19

These sins, which are committed by all mankind were ommitted against our Lord during his ministry on earth. He bore our sins this way,

Certainly zeal for your house consumes me; I endure the insults of those who insult you. Psa.69:9

Can you see how by contradicting our Savior, spitting on him, bearing false witness against him and beating and murdering him, is sinning against God himself in human fleah?

He paid the sin debt for all sins, not just certain ones.

Our Lord freely forgives the repentant, otherwise sin is paid for by the person who commits sin, not anyone else,

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father,neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteousshall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Eze.18:20

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deut.24:16

except ye repent, ye shall alllikewise perish. Lk.13:3

Not sure how this is relevant to Christ's death on the cross.

It relates because Jesus did continue in all things prescribed by the law and therefore could not have been a curse in the eyes of his Father.

2 Cor 5:21 - God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

This says that God judged Jesus for our sins. iow, He paid the debt of sin that we owe.

Actually, we come into a right relationship with God when we repent of the sins we've committed against him. The only way Christ was made a curse or sin was in a position where people lied about him.

 

[Journeyman]

1Co 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Jesus did become a curse for us when He hung upon the Cross / tree;

However, He is not accursed;

For He is risen from the dead.

It's not difficult to understand that when Paul cited Deut.21:23, he was teaching how people are cursed by God in relation to Deut.21:22 (for committing sin worthy of death).

Paul is teaching how false witnesses rose up against our Lord.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
He paid the sin debt for all sins, not just certain ones.

Our Lord freely forgives the repentant, otherwise sin is paid for by the person who commits sin, not anyone else,

The Bible is clear that Jesus paid the ENTIRE sin debt. That's why He is described in Scripture as the "Savior of the world". That couldn't be true if He didn't die for everyone.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father,neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteousshall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Eze.18:20

Do you understand what "it shall die" refers to?

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deut.24:16

Do you understand what kind of death is being referred to here?

Actually, we come into a right relationship with God when we repent of the sins we've committed against him.

The Bible tells us that we are saved (right relationship) by grace THROUGH FAITH. Not "repent of sins".

The only way Christ was made a curse or sin was in a position where people lied about him.

The Bible isn't that narrow about the sins. It means all sins.

 

[Journeyman]

He paid the sin debt for all sins, not just certain ones.

Our Lord owed no debt to anyone, because he committed no sin. He preached the good news of how God will freely forgive anyone who turns to him and repaid for that by the abuse he suffered from sinners.

The Bible is clear that Jesus paid the ENTIRE sin debt. That's why He is described in Scripture as the "Savior of the world". That couldn't be true if He didn't die for everyone.

He's the Savior of the world to anyone in the world who believes what he said,

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him upfrom the dead, and gave himglory; that your faith and hopemight be in God. 1Pet.1:21

Do you understand what "it shall die" refers to?]Yes, the soul that sins, not the soul of the innocent, do you agree?

Do you understand what kind of death is being referred to here?

Yes, the soul that sins, not the soul of the innocent. Do you agree?

The Bible tells us that we are saved (right relationship) by grace THROUGH FAITH. Not "repent of sins".

The grace of God is that his Son chose not (at that time (and long afterward) to destroy people who sinned (and still are sinning) against him. People who put their faith in Jesus will be saved. He said,

I tell you, Nay: but,except ye repent, ye shall alllikewise perish. Lk.13:3

Do you believe him?

The Bible isn't that narrow about the sins. It means all sins.

That's because whoever offends in one point is guilty of all (Jas.2:10).

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. Psa.51:17

And for the injustice done to our Savior, sinners should be remorseful.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
He paid the sin debt for all sins, not just certain ones.

Our Lord owed no debt to anyone, because he committed no sin. He preached the good news of how God will freely forgive anyone who turns to him and repaid for that by the abuse he suffered from sinners.

Are you agreeing that the Lord paid the sin debt for all sins? I can't tell from your comment.

He's the Savior of the world to anyone in the world who believes what he said,

Then find such a qualifying verse.

John 1:29 and 4:42 both say He is the Savior of the world, without any qualifying. The world means just that.

However, note what Paul wrote to Timothy:

1 Tim 4:10 - That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

The red words specify believers, and the blue words specify everyone.

If the red and blue words refer to the same group, then the verse wasn't needed to be written. iow, if "all people" simply means "those who believe", there would be no need to say that.

The Greek word for "especially", which is 'malista', specifies a subgroup.

So, the verse indicates that He died for all people, and saves those who believe.

1 Cor 1:21 actually SAYS that "God is pleased...to save those who believe".

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him upfrom the dead, and gave himglory; that your faith and hopemight be in God. 1Pet.1:21

This verse doesn't support your claim.

 

[Journeyman]

He paid the sin debt for all sins, not just certain ones.

Are you agreeing that the Lord paid the sin debt for all sins? I can't tell from your comment.

No, I don't agree with you and you didn't comment on the scriptures I cited.

Then find such a qualifying verse.[/auote]
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Jn.3:36

John 1:29 and 4:42 both say He is the Savior of the world, without any qualifying. The world means just that.

You're isolating these verses from the rest of scripture,

I tell you, Nay: but,except ye repent, ye shall alllikewise perish. Lk.13:3

Do you believe him?

QUOTE="FreeGrace2, post: 4666122, member: 304922"]
However, note what Paul wrote to Timothy:

1 Tim 4:10 - That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

The red words specify believers, and the blue words specify everyone.

If the red and blue words refer to the same group, then the verse wasn't needed to be written. iow, if "all people" simply means "those who believe", there would be no need to say that.

The Greek word for "especially", which is 'malista', specifies a subgroup.

So, the verse indicates that He died for all people, and saves those who believe.

By "all people", Paul means both Jews and gentiles. He doesn't mean everyone in the world will be saved.

1 Cor 1:21 actually SAYS that "God is pleased...to save those who believe".
This verse doesn't support your claim.

I cited 1Pet.1:21

 

[CS1]

Paul said,

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Gal.3:10, Deut.27:26

We all know that our Savior never violated the law in any way, so he could not be cursed by the law, but then Paul says,

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree Gal.3:13, Deut.21:23

Does God truly curse an innocent man by a method of execution? Paul was citing a passage that qualifies being cursed by the law which says,

And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:Deut.21:22

So it isn't being hanged on a tree, but committing sin that brings the curse on an individual. What Paul is teaching here, is that Jesus was falsely accused, wronfully thought of as accursed of God by the people who condemned him and others passing by the cross.

Jesu was made a curse because of you and me. It was our sin that he was hung on that tree. Thw curse is death which is from sin. Jesus took on our curse so we would not have to.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
He paid the sin debt for all sins, not just certain ones.

Are you agreeing that the Lord paid the sin debt for all sins? I can't tell from your comment.

No, I don't agree with you and you didn't comment on the scriptures I cited.

I guess you missed my question. By answering it, I would be able to comment on your verses. See how that works?

By "all people", Paul means both Jews and gentiles. He doesn't mean everyone in the world will be saved.

I never said all people in the world will be saved. That would be the heresy of universalism.

 

[glen55]

Paul said,

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Gal.3:10, Deut.27:26

We all know that our Savior never violated the law in any way, so he could not be cursed by the law, but then Paul says,

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree Gal.3:13, Deut.21:23

Does God truly curse an innocent man by a method of execution? Paul was citing a passage that qualifies being cursed by the law which says,

And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:Deut.21:22

So it isn't being hanged on a tree, but committing sin that brings the curse on an individual. What Paul is teaching here, is that Jesus was falsely accused, wronfully thought of as accursed of God by the people who condemned him and others passing by the cross.

The natural mind is what he knew could believe any thing from good and evil. Luke 17 was a hint looking outside yourself keeps you blind not lost like the natural mind thinks men are. 20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

[Journeyman]

Jesu was made a curse because of you and me. It was our sin that he was hung on that tree.

Our Lord was made a curse by false witnesses. Hanging him on the tree was an act of sin.

Thw curse is death which is from sin.

For the person who sins, yes. For the innocent, no.

Jesus took on our curse so we would not have to.

No. Jesus was unjustly abused and we might have to be also.

 

[Journeyman]

I guess you missed my question. By answering it, I would be able to comment on your verses. See how that works?

I did answer your question. I said the soul that sins, not the soul of the innocent, do you agree?

 

[CS1]

Our Lord was made a curse by false witnesses. Hanging him on the tree was an act of sin.

For the person who sins, yes. For the innocent, no.

No. Jesus was unjustly abused and we might have to be also.

No sir, Jesus said " no man takes my life, I give it up freely and I have the power to take it back again " John 10:18

Before Jesus died on the Cross all men were lost and without hope. There are none that do right NO NOT one. Ps 14:3

 

[FreeGrace2]

I did answer your question. I said the soul that sins, not the soul of the innocent, do you agree?

First, please explain what you think "dies" means. Thanks.

 

[Journeyman]

First, please explain what you think "dies" means. Thanks.

To justly kill by Gods permission, which pertains only to the guilty. The slaying of the innocent should cause repentance.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
First, please explain what you think "dies" means. Thanks.

To justly kill by Gods permission, which pertains only to the guilty. The slaying of the innocent should cause repentance.

I went back a number of posts to recall the context. I believe it is this:

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deut.24:16"

This verse is clearly about capital punishment for sin. I don't see anything about the killing of innocents.

Was there another verse that you had quoted?

 

[Journeyman]

I went back a number of posts to recall the context. I believe it is this:

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deut.24:16"

This verse is clearly about capital punishment for sin. I don't see anything about the killing of innocents.[/quote2

Maybe you would see it if the scripture said, "Every man will be put to death for committing no sin."

Was there another verse that you had quoted?

There are many passages that testify of personal consequences for ones own sin. I cited a verse from Eze.18, (but the whole chapter explains everyones responsibility very well (including our Lord Jesus). Please note also how repentance is required. (Please note also that repentance is the only part of the chapter which is not the responsibility of our Lord).