The Institutional Church and Denominations--please share your experience

[Laura798]

Hi All, I have been a Christian many years. I attended a Southern Baptist Church as a child, but it was more of a cultural thing, though thankfully I did hear the gospel in Sunday School. As an adult I attended a non denominational church for 20 years then after I felt it was becoming to man centered and seeker friendly left for a smaller denominational church, but realized after studying their foundational doctrine and the man behind it, it did not align with scripture. Since then I have visited a number of churches and during that time began to study the history of the church and denominations--I was disturbed to find Roman Catholic roots in the Protestant church and that Protestants, like the Roman Catholics has mixed in Paganism with Christianity, e.g. Christmas, Easter, Sunday worship. Also every church seemed to be the same and I began to think there was a 'Worship Team in a Box' which came with hair gel, skinny jeans, plaid shirt (with instructions to keep untucked), drum set, stage lights, etc---I hated walking into a dark room, not being able to hear the congregation singing--the same songs being sung at every church. The 'script'--song song, song...announcement...prayer...song...prayer..preach...prayer...offering /Lords supper (more of a check off a list of to dos)..song. The sermons are like the trailer of a movie--there is more to come!--the book of Romans may take a year when I'm fairly certain when the Romans received their letters from Paul they were read in one shot. To think that the bulk of the offerings go to the church building and director of this and that--in the first century money went primarily to the poor and to those few--the elders and apostles who worked full time for the gospel. It's a performance now with the majority of us uninvolved spectators. And with Covid, most churches stopped meeting--even now where I live I cant find one community bible study that is meeting in person. And denominations? How is it possible there can be so many teaching so many different things and things that can easily be refuted by scripture? I have now been searching for a House Church, but have yet to find one in my area--I'd like to start a house church movement--I'm sure there are many out there like me who are done with the institutional church, but clueless how to find them. Bottom line--too many churches are run like business, the pastor is the CEO, there are board of directors instead of elders--paid departmental directors instead of deacons. It's troubling times we're in all around. (excuse for not editing)

 

[Gideon300]

Hi All, I have been a Christian many years. I attended a Southern Baptist Church as a child, but it was more of a cultural thing, though thankfully I did hear the gospel in Sunday School. As an adult I attended a non denominational church for 20 years then after I felt it was becoming to man centered and seeker friendly left for a smaller denominational church, but realized after studying their foundational doctrine and the man behind it, it did not align with scripture. Since then I have visited a number of churches and during that time began to study the history of the church and denominations--I was disturbed to find Roman Catholic roots in the Protestant church and that Protestants, like the Roman Catholics has mixed in Paganism with Christianity, e.g. Christmas, Easter, Sunday worship. Also every church seemed to be the same and I began to think there was a 'Worship Team in a Box' which came with hair gel, skinny jeans, plaid shirt (with instructions to keep untucked), drum set, stage lights, etc---I hated walking into a dark room, not being able to hear the congregation singing--the same songs being sung at every church. The 'script'--song song, song...announcement...prayer...song...prayer..preach...prayer...offering /Lords supper (more of a check off a list of to dos)..song. The sermons are like the trailer of a movie--there is more to come!--the book of Romans may take a year when I'm fairly certain when the Romans received their letters from Paul they were read in one shot. To think that the bulk of the offerings go to the church building and director of this and that--in the first century money went primarily to the poor and to those few--the elders and apostles who worked full time for the gospel. It's a performance now with the majority of us uninvolved spectators. And with Covid, most churches stopped meeting--even now where I live I cant find one community bible study that is meeting in person. And denominations? How is it possible there can be so many teaching so many different things and things that can easily be refuted by scripture? I have now been searching for a House Church, but have yet to find one in my area--I'd like to start a house church movement--I'm sure there are many out there like me who are done with the institutional church, but clueless how to find them. Bottom line--too many churches are run like business, the pastor is the CEO, there are board of directors instead of elders--paid departmental directors instead of deacons. It's troubling times we're in all around. (excuse for not editing)

100 % agree. I've been out of the denominational scene since 1983. I was blessed to become a part of a small group we called Christian Life. It's based on principles similar to those espoused by Watchman Nee, in a book entitled "The Normal Christian Church". He drew some of his principles from the Brethren, but rejected their doctrine of exclusivity. But primarily, he drew inspiration from God's word.

We are going through a rebuilding stage right now. It's hard. Our way of doing things is very challenging for most Christians. However, you may be interested in checking out Francis Chan. He left a megachurch where he was a member of the leadership team. He now promotes small groups where the home is the base and the leaders are working, not paid professional pastors. He may be able to put you in touch with a like minded group.

Be encouraged. The real church is alive and well, even if we don't see it. How do I know? Because Lord Jesus is building His church. He created the universe out of nothing and He saved me. Nothing is impossible for Him!

 

[Laura798]

Thank you Gideon. for your response--it is such a relief to hear from an individual that they have faced the same dilemma.

I do know Francis Chan, but unfortunately he is associated with less than savory characters, e.g. IHOP Conference-- Benny Hinn, Heidi Baker, Todd White, Rodney Howard Browne, and Bill Johnson. https://themajestysmen.com/pastorgabe/francis-chan-defends-his-friendship-with-false-teachers/

and have done some strange things like this: https://reformationcharlotte.org/2021/06/10/false-teacher-of-the-day-22-francis-chan/


I really appreciated Watchman Nee's 'The Normal Christian Life' however Witness Lee seemed to have usurped some of his teaching and there is a strange mix which unfortunately have muddied Lee's teachings.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Also every church seemed to be the same and I began to think there was a 'Worship Team in a Box' which came with hair gel, skinny jeans, plaid shirt (with instructions to keep untucked), drum set, stage lights, etc

So true!

If you started a house church, what would it look like, have you given it any thought? I've thought about this as well. If you find a house group that already exists, I'd be cautious about jumping in right away. Many house groups are emergent and teach heresy.

 

[Laura798]

So true!

If you started a house church, what would it look like, have you given it any thought? I've thought about this as well. If you find a house group that already exists, I'd be cautious about jumping in right away. Many house groups are emergent and teach heresy.

I'm going to respond more thoughtfully about the vision I see--firstly that it would model the first century church--little hierachy or structure other than elders and deacons--and extremely careful NOT to ever use denominational doctrine--instead to use the scripture to support scripture.

I completey agree--even in House Church there is heresy and also tentacles from the institutional church--the Southern Baptist Convention comes to mind.

 

[Aaron56]

I am the spiritual father of over a dozen spiritual sons who have come out of various denominations and religious traditions. Some came out of very conservative, Mennonite traditions. Others were more Pentecostal. We currently meet in each other's homes but we have, as needed, rented larger buildings for our meetings. Our connections to others are world-wide (Canada, Australia, China, Africa, South America, etc.) although we are not officially incorporated. We are also not a 501(c)3.

Home-based churches are not immune to heresy so the leaders/elders should be examined personally: their lives, their example, their children, their marriages, etc. They will bear the fruit of the spirit that is within them. For myself, and many others, I have adopted some clear guidelines for my position of leadership:

1) Always use the scriptures. There is simply no allowance for extra-biblical doctrine. We may gain insight into things in the scriptures from other sources but that is the limit of their usefulness.

2) Always be ready for an answer for what you teach. There should be a clear line from the scriptures to the message. Now, just so we are clear, anyone may bring a message to share, not just me. But the message will always have a scriptural foundation. Sometimes this is new understanding about a certain familiar passage, sometimes this is a broader message about what the Lord is doing in our time.

4) Always be willing to be examined. This is something I practiced with our own children: they were always allowed to ask me "why" I chose the way I chose or set certain rules. I believe this reflects the heart of the Father who wants His children to know His mind. I remember our older daughter asking me why she had to clean the dishes when her younger sister did not have to. After an examination of all the opportunities she had as an older sibling (time with friends, later bed time, etc.) and the value of responsibility, she peacefully completed her chore.
Run, don't walk, from leaders who are not willing or available to be examined. In my case, they examine me by asking my wife about me. This is welcome. People like her more than me, any way. (just kidding)

5) If a prophetic word is received (this is not common) it must be revealed in the scriptures before it is shared. This requires study and examination of the scriptures from the one who received the word.

6) Generosity, kindness, the character of Christ, these are a few things I am reminded of moment by moment in my walk. I believe it is my responsibility to show the Father to the sons. So, I lead by example. I preach, and occasionally use words.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I'm going to respond more thoughtfully about the vision I see--firstly that it would model the first century church--little hierachy or structure other than elders and deacons--and extremely careful NOT to ever use denominational doctrine--instead to use the scripture to support scripture.

I completey agree--even in House Church there is heresy and also tentacles from the institutional church--the Southern Baptist Convention comes to mind.

Sounds good. My thinking is similar. I thought Acts 2:42 would be a good guide: "And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers." I've been to churches that claim this as their rule, but in practice it seems to have all but been forgotten.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I'm going to respond more thoughtfully about the vision I see--firstly that it would model the first century church--little hierachy or structure other than elders and deacons--and extremely careful NOT to ever use denominational doctrine--instead to use the scripture to support scripture.

I completey agree--even in House Church there is heresy and also tentacles from the institutional church--the Southern Baptist Convention comes to mind.

You are 100% on track. The Church largely needs a modern reformation and divide from the corruption in denomination. They have served lots of good in the past but by leaps and bounds are going away from scripture on areas that are not even debatable like having homosexual clergy.

My wife and I are trying to establish a home church. To us church should look like life. A body doesn't divide to do daily tasks. We see the church as a community. A community where we actively are involved in each others lives. This builds trust, friendships, and allows a collective body of people to respond to social needs within the community. Giving us the ability to evangelize. Sermons are taught in the living room or backyard by anyone who led by the Spirit.

I actually have a plan to help people break away from the denomination's institutionalized way of thinking.

People must really examine the role of discipleship. Jesus's disciples spent years with Jesus. You can even study the mantle passing of Moses to Joshua, Elijah to Elisha, or Paul to Timothy.

The modern church does not have this type of discipleship. Statistically the modern way of church is failing as the rise of the secular or unchurched community continues.

We are not preparing strong Christians. We are making weak rooted Christians. Of course, the Spirit is involved but where the failure lies is on us as we have failed to abide in the Spirit. The same Spirit that led the early church. We have been lazy with discipleship.

 

[Laura798]

You are 100% on track. The Church largely needs a modern reformation and divide from the corruption in denomination. They have served lots of good in the past but by leaps and bounds are going away from scripture on areas that are not even debatable like having homosexual clergy.

My wife and I are trying to establish a home church. To us church should look like life. A body doesn't divide to do daily tasks. We see the church as a community. A community where we actively are involved in each others lives. This builds trust, friendships, and allows a collective body of people to respond to social needs within the community. Giving us the ability to evangelize. Sermons are taught in the living room or backyard by anyone who led by the Spirit.

I actually have a plan to help people break away from the denomination's institutionalized way of thinking.

People must really examine the role of discipleship. Jesus's disciples spent years with Jesus. You can even study the mantle passing of Moses to Joshua, Elijah to Elisha, or Paul to Timothy.

The modern church does not have this type of discipleship. Statistically the modern way of church is failing as the rise of the secular or unchurched community continues.

We are not preparing strong Christians. We are making weak rooted Christians. Of course, the Spirit is involved but where the failure lies is on us as we have failed to abide in the Spirit. The same Spirit that led the early church. We have been lazy with discipleship.

Yes, Rough Soul, agreed! In all the years I've attended church, I don't recall any kind of discipleship groups--or any kind of equipping for one on one discipleship. Community Groups seem rather half hazard --more like a rather casual classroom where you go away having not learned very much about the class or each other--but I blame the 'system'--if it's all you know it takes a revelation--in mine a simple prayer "Father, show me more of the mystery of the gospel." This created a domino effect--the shocking discovery that I was merely a spectator--taking in information which was closed up in a doctrinal package--not realizing it was being dosed in little packets--to keep me coming back. But the sad epiphany that I was not much transformed into the image of Christ and I was rarely sharing the message of the gospel.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Yes, Rough Soul, agreed! In all the years I've attended church, I don't recall any kind of discipleship groups--or any kind of equipping for one on one discipleship. Community Groups seem rather half hazard --more like a rather casual classroom where you go away having not learned very much about the class or each other--but I blame the 'system'--if it's all you know it takes a revelation--in mine a simple prayer "Father, show me more of the mystery of the gospel." This created a domino effect--the shocking discovery that I was merely a spectator--taking in information which was closed up in a doctrinal package--not realizing it was being dosed in little packets--to keep me coming back. But the sad epiphany that I was not much transformed into the image of Christ and I was rarely sharing the message of the gospel.

Exactly. My old church had community groups but they mostly ran as 1 hour eating, 1 hour doing a study. But it stopped there. No daily interaction. Or minimal as in a text.

 

[Blik]

So true!

If you started a house church, what would it look like, have you given it any thought? I've thought about this as well. If you find a house group that already exists, I'd be cautious about jumping in right away. Many house groups are emergent and teach heresy.

For 300 years after Christ was crucified the church followed the teachings of the apostles. In 313 that all changed when Constantine took over and instead of Christ's ways leading it was led by the ways of the world. A group of men met to decide questions instead. Love ruled the church for 300 years, not the doctrines and theology that rules the church today.

We have not only scripture to tell us about this early church, but the writings of men of that time who were trained by apostles is still intact. We can learn about that church and copy it today in our home churches.

It takes a lot of giving up loving the world and its demands and instead living the simple way of joy, peace, and love of the Lord. The world's way of living is demanding and burdensome, God's ways are easy.

 

[ResidentAlien]

For 300 years after Christ was crucified the church followed the teachings of the apostles. In 313 that all changed when Constantine took over and instead of Christ's ways leading it was led by the ways of the world. A group of men met to decide questions instead. Love ruled the church for 300 years, not the doctrines and theology that rules the church today.

We have not only scripture to tell us about this early church, but the writings of men of that time who were trained by apostles is still intact. We can learn about that church and copy it today in our home churches.

It takes a lot of giving up loving the world and its demands and instead living the simple way of joy, peace, and love of the Lord. The world's way of living is demanding and burdensome, God's ways are easy.

I mostly agree.

I agree love was a stronger motivator for the first 300 years than it was after that. However, for the first 300 years, correct teaching was very important as well.

The problem as I see it is what's important and what's not important in the teaching have become confused. For example, wealth and power have become important teachings in a lot of churches. Church has become big business. This is completely antithetical to the sound teaching of Christ and His apostles. Signs and wonders have become very important to many churches, but the scriptures make it very clear that they're not that important at all.

 

[stilllearning]

What is they say most folks will die within 20 or 25 miles of where they are born. That is pretty much my personality and my church experience. Don't do much to never wandering outside to other churches. However, reckon it was about few years ago now. Late to the party finally found youtube. So while I don't in person get out to other churches have found online I sure do.

While some of it is pure nonsense and anyone who has the gift to gab sure has a platform to do so now. The other side of the coin is it has just been way cool so much to digest and just some solid stuff to be heard then dig into on my own personal time.

Have always had such a affinity and love for ancient and classical history. So have found a number of preachers and teachers that incorporate that into their teaching and to me is just way cool.

Think it was a couple weeks ago now that one guy was speaking on high places. Which by the name I always assumed well it would be high. So when he showed a ancient city and next to the gate this just a few feet high like platform and that it was a high place as spoken of in the bible. Then went to explain how historically they would offer gifts either entering or departing by the gate.

Just found it fascinating as now I had a realistic visual and the history to go with the teaching. So while I have no real experience getting outside to other denominations or nondenominations. I would have to say being able to visit virtually and see other churches and hear what they may be teaching is a real blessing.

 

[Blik]

Just found it fascinating as now I had a realistic visual and the history to go with the teaching. So while I have no real experience getting outside to other denominations or nondenominations. I would have to say being able to visit virtually and see other churches and hear what they may be teaching is a real blessing.

In our modern world "seeing what other churches are teaching" is necessary when what the Lord requires is for us to see what the Lord teaches,

Today there is a difference between Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Christian Scientist, Catholic or Jewish. Many people identify their Christianity in those terms, when the Lord never asks that of us. The Lord asks if we have faith in the Lord.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Church largely needs a modern reformation and divide from the corruption in denomination.

It is far to late to be talking about reforming Christendom (not the Church or Body of Christ). Non-denominational and house churches have been around for sometime. But getting back to the New Testament pattern seems to be more difficult than it should. The meeting place is not critical, but what happens when Christian assemble together is what counts. And if there is no Statement of Faith, what are outsiders supposed to think? Or are these meant to be exclusive clubs. What fails to get mentioned is the Gospel Outreach which is in fact critical.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Lord asks if we have faith in the Lord.

That is just the starting point as you will note in the New Testament.

 

[Evmur]

Hi All, I have been a Christian many years. I attended a Southern Baptist Church as a child, but it was more of a cultural thing, though thankfully I did hear the gospel in Sunday School. As an adult I attended a non denominational church for 20 years then after I felt it was becoming to man centered and seeker friendly left for a smaller denominational church, but realized after studying their foundational doctrine and the man behind it, it did not align with scripture. Since then I have visited a number of churches and during that time began to study the history of the church and denominations--I was disturbed to find Roman Catholic roots in the Protestant church and that Protestants, like the Roman Catholics has mixed in Paganism with Christianity, e.g. Christmas, Easter, Sunday worship. Also every church seemed to be the same and I began to think there was a 'Worship Team in a Box' which came with hair gel, skinny jeans, plaid shirt (with instructions to keep untucked), drum set, stage lights, etc---I hated walking into a dark room, not being able to hear the congregation singing--the same songs being sung at every church. The 'script'--song song, song...announcement...prayer...song...prayer..preach...prayer...offering /Lords supper (more of a check off a list of to dos)..song. The sermons are like the trailer of a movie--there is more to come!--the book of Romans may take a year when I'm fairly certain when the Romans received their letters from Paul they were read in one shot. To think that the bulk of the offerings go to the church building and director of this and that--in the first century money went primarily to the poor and to those few--the elders and apostles who worked full time for the gospel. It's a performance now with the majority of us uninvolved spectators. And with Covid, most churches stopped meeting--even now where I live I cant find one community bible study that is meeting in person. And denominations? How is it possible there can be so many teaching so many different things and things that can easily be refuted by scripture? I have now been searching for a House Church, but have yet to find one in my area--I'd like to start a house church movement--I'm sure there are many out there like me who are done with the institutional church, but clueless how to find them. Bottom line--too many churches are run like business, the pastor is the CEO, there are board of directors instead of elders--paid departmental directors instead of deacons. It's troubling times we're in all around. (excuse for not editing)

The very best way, perhaps the only way to start a house church is to win the souls who will attend it. That's honourable.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I'm sure there are many out there like me who are done with the institutional church, but clueless how to find them.

Precious Laura, yes, you found one; I have been out for over 30 years, since
finding God's Truth Of the Main Divider of denominations. There is a way to
possibly find a "Rightly Dividing" GRACE assembly, or home Bible study group
near where you live:

[email protected]

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
GRACE/Mystery fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, today?)

 

[p_rehbein]

I was disturbed to find Roman Catholic roots in the Protestant church and that Protestants, like the Roman Catholics has mixed in Paganism with Christianity, e.g. Christmas, Easter, Sunday worship.

Yeah, I stopped reading your OP right here............goodness.........here we go again

 

[Laura798]

Precious Laura, yes, you found one; I have been out for over 30 years, since
finding God's Truth Of the Main Divider of denominations. There is a way to
possibly find a "Rightly Dividing" GRACE assembly, or home Bible study group
near where you live:

[email protected]

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
GRACE/Mystery fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, today?)

Thank you, Grace--and you woke up much earlier than so many of us! I'll try checking with the bereans and see if they have any recommendations. I have looked up House Church Networks doing an internet search and those directories didn't have anything local. I'll let you know what I find out--thank you!