S
SophieT
Guest
who knows what he meant.
obviously, the understanding of what Jesus said is flawed
Why do people not believe Jesus when he said "Greater works shall he [that believes] do?"
- Thread starter KelbyofGod
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who knows what he meant.
obviously, the understanding of what Jesus said is flawed
S
SophieT
Guest
Bill Johnson is part of the NAR...New Apostolic Reformation
they are going to take over the earth, don't you know
they can teach you anything you want to learn about spiritual gifts; if you have the money, they have the time
and don't get me started on Bentley...the tattooed front man for the deceived
That is certainly a possibility that Jesus could have been speaking of the spread of the gospel. I have heard somewhere that miracles often come with the gospel message to areas that never heard it before. Still God enables. He gives life and ability to spread the gospel. God performs miracles according to his will.
I believe there can arise a problem with seeking to outperform in that it may give rise to pride , insecurity or both. However Jesus calls to come to him for rest in Matthew 11:28-30.
S
SophieT
Guest
no disagreement on that from me
IMO, the interpretation that we shall do actual physical deeds greater (that is with regards to walking on water etc) is wrong as it would be utterly impossible to outperform Jesus Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords
get serious people!
I agree. We cannot outperform the Lord Jesus. In regards to miracles done in his name, Jesus is still doing the miracle.
Also see Acts 3:12-13.
It isn't a matter of outperforming, we are told to perform according to our instructions and it can lead us to even better things. How many of us respond to insults to us with love and doing good for those who insult us? How many of us choose a simple home so we have money to feed the hungry in our town?
Why? Many reasons doubt is the main reason. Another is we don't want to pay the price. Just willing to give up everything for Him are we? 
we can't just do what ever we want and then expect these things to happen in our life's. "But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;" Jesus.... "And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And He marveled because of their unbelief. Then He went about the villages in a circuit, teaching."
Doubt will always stop God. And how shocking and ..well GOD being amazed, marveled at their unbelief. We have Matt-John and duh John 3 16-17 is true yet this same Jesus that said "these signs shall follow them that believe (do you believe or not) cast out demons, speak with new tongues...." It does show us do we really have faith in Him or not. To just have the faith the size of a mustered seed can move MTN's. You don't debate this you just do it. It reminds me when walking in Hollywood after a Christian meeting. Streets very dark I was happy yet as I crossed the street the lord said "RUN" I thought run? I'm not scared" . What I am getting at is what He said next "when God tells you do to something you don't question it you just do it" "smiled YES SIR". So read His word and just do it.. faith.
One main problem could be we think its US thats doing this. It does take faith and a great example here is what our brothers said in Acts "So when Peter saw it, he responded to the people: “Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this? Or why look so intently at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk?" So why you ask it does not happen? Heres the answer "And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."
Greater works.. its not you its has always been only Him. Yet He gave us all power over the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Man growing up..haha that is the verse I quoted told back to GOD all the time. "you promised nothing shall by any means hurt me". Do you know He always kept His word. Back the start we believe John 3 16-17 yet Luke 11 13 is what? Try tossing out everything you have ever heard about the bible. Now picture you are some where all alone and you see this book "HOLY BIBLE". You've never heard of it before NOW read it! Fact if I choose to listen to what some man says about GODS word (very wise at times) God is not going to over ride that tell me something else unless I ask Him. He will never ever go against your will.
For me.. everything I have ever seen comes down to just reading taking GOD at His word. What I am doing thinking saying watching all plays a part in this. I then just take Him at His word. Haha the 12 tried to stop some man that was casting out demons. That man was not even saved. He just did what he heard Jesus say. Tie that to the sheep and goats and you can see how some could to all kind of things in HIS NAME yet Christ never new them. They were never saved. ITS THAT NAME! Not the person saying it. The power is in the one that name belongs to is why it ALWAYS works. But doubt will stop Him.. don't believe me.. ASK HIM! Hes in you yes? Oh praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST king of king lord of lords.. man they are ALWAYS singing HOLY HOLY HOLY! Always singing praises to our Father..GOD!
we can't just do what ever we want and then expect these things to happen in our life's. "But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;" Jesus.... "And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And He marveled because of their unbelief. Then He went about the villages in a circuit, teaching."Doubt will always stop God. And how shocking and ..well GOD being amazed, marveled at their unbelief. We have Matt-John and duh John 3 16-17 is true yet this same Jesus that said "these signs shall follow them that believe (do you believe or not) cast out demons, speak with new tongues...." It does show us do we really have faith in Him or not. To just have the faith the size of a mustered seed can move MTN's. You don't debate this you just do it. It reminds me when walking in Hollywood after a Christian meeting. Streets very dark I was happy yet as I crossed the street the lord said "RUN" I thought run? I'm not scared" . What I am getting at is what He said next "when God tells you do to something you don't question it you just do it" "smiled YES SIR". So read His word and just do it.. faith.
One main problem could be we think its US thats doing this. It does take faith and a great example here is what our brothers said in Acts "So when Peter saw it, he responded to the people: “Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this? Or why look so intently at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk?" So why you ask it does not happen? Heres the answer "And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all."
Greater works.. its not you its has always been only Him. Yet He gave us all power over the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Man growing up..haha that is the verse I quoted told back to GOD all the time. "you promised nothing shall by any means hurt me". Do you know He always kept His word. Back the start we believe John 3 16-17 yet Luke 11 13 is what? Try tossing out everything you have ever heard about the bible. Now picture you are some where all alone and you see this book "HOLY BIBLE". You've never heard of it before NOW read it! Fact if I choose to listen to what some man says about GODS word (very wise at times) God is not going to over ride that tell me something else unless I ask Him. He will never ever go against your will.
For me.. everything I have ever seen comes down to just reading taking GOD at His word. What I am doing thinking saying watching all plays a part in this. I then just take Him at His word. Haha the 12 tried to stop some man that was casting out demons. That man was not even saved. He just did what he heard Jesus say. Tie that to the sheep and goats and you can see how some could to all kind of things in HIS NAME yet Christ never new them. They were never saved. ITS THAT NAME! Not the person saying it. The power is in the one that name belongs to is why it ALWAYS works. But doubt will stop Him.. don't believe me.. ASK HIM! Hes in you yes? Oh praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST king of king lord of lords.. man they are ALWAYS singing HOLY HOLY HOLY! Always singing praises to our Father..GOD!
Hi Blik.
At first I thought you were saying that works don't count...but then I reread what you said.
Truly in Matthew 21:28-32 the ACTIONS of the sons told the true story. The words and "claimed beliefs" of sons are proven or disproven by their actions.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I feel my point is slightly different than what your post addresses. To me, it's not about a need to outperform anyone... It's about "What is available?" and "Am I actually trying to achieve it?". Jesus seems to be setting the bar of possibility really high. Doctrines that I hear from pulpits (& people) seem to be setting that bar MUCH lower. It seems detestable to me to disregard what Jesus said, just because it doesn't seem possible to our natural understanding, and then replace it with the doctrines of man.
Further on that line of thinking is... Do people realize that if they secretly think it's impossible (and therefore evil) to do anything of biblical scale then they'll almost assuredly reject anyone who (even at God's direct command) DOES do one of those miracles you mentioned?
If I sound annoyed it's not intended towards you. This topic is important to me because it seems that recently God has been answering prayers quickly and with manifestation of power. Perhaps that's being done off to the side right now, but how do you think people will react when they start hearing about miracles? Most church goers usually say "Boy, that would be cool. I'd be rejoicing!" But is that REALLY how they'd react if they think it's wrong or self-serving to seek God for miracle-working power?
Thanks for your reply.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Thats the first time I've heard the idea of the two witnesses acting on their own will. It's an interesting concept that I will likely ponder.
As for what constitutes greater works, I'll ask this... If you've ever asked God something and he's answered you... Have you actually ASKED God what a greater work would be? If we can't rely on our own understanding in general, this definitely seems like an area we should be turning to God to ask for clear understanding.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
It certainly isn’t wrong to pray for a miracle. There is nothing is impossible with God. The way I see it is God does miracles according to his will. We can always pray. Ultimately it is up to the Lord whether he will do a miracle or not. In suffering and trials and pain, the light of the Lord can shine bright through his people.
Still i like the scriptures that says all are thoughts will be establish if we put him first.
Don't forget... If it is Jesus that is working through the people, then "greater works" are certainly possible.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
@jb I tell you of a truth, If you ask (sincerely, correctly) he will indeed answer you.
But please remember this... When you ask for a meal at McDonald's, you are willing to wait until they hand it to you before you drive away. And if you ask a contractor to build you a house, you're willing to wait months or even years before you see the manifestation. The thing you would be asking is greater than either of those. Don't forget to give God credit for knowing what needs to be done in your life to get you ready for the answer... And trust him to answer according to his timing, not yours...but keep trusting him to actually answer. He will.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Depending on how you view it I suppose. I was coming from the stand point that people cannot do miracles on their own power. Considering Jesus is doing the miracles, a person cannot take credit for the miracles by saying they’re outperforming Jesus.
This is the perspective I was coming from.
I believe Jesus can and still does miracles in the world.
Please don't get upset with me being for being candid:
Even though you believe God can and does do miracles, I'm guessing that you personally haven't figured out how (or when, or why, or for whom) to get miracles to function in YOUR life or ministry. Am I correct in that assumption?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby