Our new relationship to the law.

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eternally-gratefull

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Christ changed the Mosaic Law when Christ said "you have been told" and "but I tell you". All the earthly type commands of the Mosaic Law were made into commandments of the heart, adding love and taking away the fleshly part of the command.

God used these earthly fleshly commands as a schoolmaster, to lead them to the spirit of the law that they symbolized. They cut actual flesh to symbolize cutting flesh from their life to living for the spirit of the Lord. Christ spoke this directly to hearts through the holy spirit, cutting flesh would then only deny that they received the spirit to lead them as a schoolmaster would lead his children to worship and learn.
No. God did not change it

He said that to PROVE to the people the law could not help them. He showed how WEAK the law was in that it did not go far enough

Again, You have to much focus on the ministers of death
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
It is an ordinance through which God operates through faith. It is not in the man doing the baptizing to bring salvation to the one baptized; but it has to do with "faith in the operation of God" (Colossians 2:12 (kjv)).
Water baptism will nto save you any more than circumcision saved a jew.

It is a symbol of what really saves, which is the baptism of the spirit.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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No one can keep the letter of the law (Galatians 6:13).

Keeping the spirit of the law (Romans 7:6) through the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:4) is a different story (1 John 3:5-9).
The spirit of the law does not negate the letter

You still can not keep the l;aw.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
He changed it as a mother might change her baby's diapers. Here, I am saying what you are saying.

Therefore, I believe that we are here arguing over semantics.
OMG

I am sorry/ I can not sit here and watch this. I will pray for you my friend.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Just looking at the OP

"Our new relationship to the law"

Should we focus on that or do we need to focus on

"Our new relationship with God thru Jesus death burial and resurrection?

If so that relationship is wanting to be like Jesus.

Look at what Jesus and did in the gospels.

Love God, love your neighbor, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, seek the marginalised, the poor, the hurting, the downtrodden and so on.
Its amazing how one can be names justbyfaith, Yet every word out of his mouth is works..

I can;t do it any more bro. Its heartbreaking
 

justbyfaith

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No. God did not change it

He said that to PROVE to the people the law could not help them. He showed how WEAK the law was in that it did not go far enough

Again, You have to much focus on the ministers of death
God did in fact change the law.

Heb 7:12, For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Who changed the priesthood? Was it God?
 

justbyfaith

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Water baptism will nto save you any more than circumcision saved a jew.

It is a symbol of what really saves, which is the baptism of the spirit.
Yes; and he baptism of the Spirit is absolutely promised to those who are water-baptized in Jesus' Name for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38-39).
 

justbyfaith

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OMG

I am sorry/ I can not sit here and watch this. I will pray for you my friend.
Something tells me that you have a religious spirit.

Because you appear to be judging me over something that is really non-consequential.

If I use a less than wholesome analogy to describe something wholesome, I only do so for lack of a better analogy.

The analogy was given in the love of God and this is what sanctifies it.
 

justbyfaith

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Its amazing how one can be names justbyfaith, Yet every word out of his mouth is works..

I can;t do it any more bro. Its heartbreaking
I have never contradicted that we are justified by faith alone.

And "just" does not only mean "only".

It also means "righteous".

You misunderstand my preaching as many do.

If I emphasize the law in my preaching, I emphasize it as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ.

It is written,

Mat 1:21, And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Tit 2:13, Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Tit 2:14, Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Tit 2:15, These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Tit 3:3, For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
 

justbyfaith

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The spirit of the law does not negate the letter

You still can not keep the l;aw.
Romans 8:4 tells me that the righteousness of the law is indeed fulfilled in me if I walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.
 

BroTan

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Water baptism never washed one sin away

You should really study acts 2. It des not say what you think. The modern english versions do not properly translate it.

When Jesus said I am saved. He means it

WHen John said I have eternal life. He means it

When jesus said I will never die. He means it

When paul said he took what was against me and contrary to me (the curse of the law) and nailed it to the cross. He meant it

This payment for past sin only is nonsensical. If Christ did nt also pay for your future sin, Your left staning with no means of savation once you commit that next sin. With no hope

"And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16).

To reject baptism is death; so, why will you die? Every soul that is baptized honors God and every soul that rejects baptism dishonors God. "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:29-30). People, if you are in a position to be baptized, why reject the counsel of God? Rejecting God's counsel could get you eternal life in the burning flames (lake of fire) with the scribes and Pharisees. "For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, Ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5: 20).

Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16): Remember, before his crucifixion, Jesus told his disciples that his time (death) is not yet come; He also informed them that their time (death) can come at any moment.
 

BroTan

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All that is required to receive forgiveness is that you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead.

He will then proceed to do the work of sanctifying you by the power of the Holy Ghost.

It is not that He requires of you that you live holy in order to be forgiven; it is that when you are forgiven, you cannot help but begin to live holy because now, His Spirit has begun to dwell within you.
Jesus said in (Matt. 16:24-27) (v.24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. That was the Lord’s burden, to die on the cross for the sins of man. Now as we read earlier every man must bear his own burden, and what is your burden? (v.25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. You must give up your life in this world; you must not get caught up in the cares of this world. You must bring forth-good fruits of faith by keeping God’s commandments, statues, and judgments. (v.26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Some of the great patriarchs in (Heb.11) gave up a lot, some even their lives in exchange for their soul. You see they had great faith (belief) that their souls (bodies) would be raised at the first resurrection. But listen up; (v.27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his holy angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Now these are the words of Jesus (the Son of man), you know the savior of the world. He said that when he comes he is going to judge every man according to his works. Don't be deceived thinking you all you need to do is have faith in the Lord and you will be saved?

It's more then just confessing with your mouth, it's action as well. Like Faith and works.
 

BroTan

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This is what is written in the New Testament:

1Ti 4:1, Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2, Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4, For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5, For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
1Ti 4:6, If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.


Rom 14:14, I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Rom 14:20, For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

Luk 11:41, But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.

I agree with all you post, but it's weird that you would post this, after what I post, as if it's not going to happen. Which would mean that, you don't understand what you posting here. You didn't take the time to consider that I post the same conversation from Isaiah and Paul, who are on one accord.

Let's take a look at Romans the 14th chapter. Let's see if this chapter is actually giving us permission to eat anything that moves or is meat and drink used as illustrating tool to make a point. We will begin at verse one.
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. (Romans 14:1) He that is weak in the faith? Hmm? How's an individuals faith increase?

Take note; So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17)

Therefore by hearing the word of God our faith will be established; and if we believe, we will do what the Lord requires us to do. So, the individual in Romans the 14th chapter at the first verse which is weak in the "faith" is a babe in the Doctrine of the Lord. Also in that first verse Paul also states, "receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations."

In other words, accept this brother or sister but, do not agree with their uncertain arguments. Meaning, if this individual, who is weak in the faith hasn't obtained the correct concept of a particular scripture or verse, correct them, do not agree if they are incorrect.

For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. (Romans 14: 2-3)

Is this literal food? Or is the Apostle Paul giving us an example? Let's skip to the 14th, 15th verse.

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. (Romans 14: 14, 15)

Sisters and brothers, how can an individual grieve or destroy another with his or her meat? What does Paul mean by, "Now walkest thou not charitably?" What is charity? The love of mankind correct? What is love according to the Word of God? Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:10). Therefore if you walk not in the Law of God, and preach the Law of God, you can destroy and individual with your knowledge of the word. In other words practice what you preach.
Take a look at what Paul says in the 5th chapter of Hebrews.

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Hebrews 5:12-14)

In Romans the 14th chapter Paul was not referring to literal food at all. He was simply using food for an example. Now, let's return to Romans the 14th chapter and see that he was in fact talking about the word of righteousness instead of literal food.

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. (Romans 14:17)
 

Blik

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No. God did not change it

He said that to PROVE to the people the law could not help them. He showed how WEAK the law was in that it did not go far enough

Again, You have to much focus on the ministers of death
Why would the Lord state that the law will not help us? Do
No. God did not change it

He said that to PROVE to the people the law could not help them. He showed how WEAK the law was in that it did not go far enough

Again, You have to much focus on the ministers of death
Do you have scripture that states the Lord tells us the law will not help us?

The Lord says in Psalm 119:1 119 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord.

When Paul explained it was faith that God looks at when God gifts us with forgiveness, Paul also explained:

Romans 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

These scriptures are from the Lord, they talk of using the law for our bright shining light, not death as you would have it. The opposite of obedience is disobedience or lawlessness. No scripture asks us to be disobedient, or have you found one?
 

BroTan

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Those sins that we commit five minutes from now, will be in the past five minutes and one second from now. And 1 John 1:9 will apply to them if we fulfill the condition of the promise.

Also, Romans 4:8 tells us that it is not only past sins that have been dealt with at the Cross. Also Romans 8:38-39 (as concerning sins that are in the present or the future) and Hebrews 9:12.

All of that is true, but again, Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
 

BroTan

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I think it is very important that we know grace was a gift to mankind given the second it was needed because of sin entering in the world. Much of the Psalms speak of this grace, psalms written before Christ perfected grace.

We worship God, a God who gave us grace, not a God who withheld grace from man for 4,000 years until Christ came in the flesh. We must be sure the God we worship is the true God. See Lev. 17:11.

Yes sir! Luke 4: 4, 14-19, 31
 

justbyfaith

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Jesus said in (Matt. 16:24-27) (v.24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. That was the Lord’s burden, to die on the cross for the sins of man. Now as we read earlier every man must bear his own burden, and what is your burden? (v.25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. You must give up your life in this world; you must not get caught up in the cares of this world. You must bring forth-good fruits of faith by keeping God’s commandments, statues, and judgments. (v.26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Some of the great patriarchs in (Heb.11) gave up a lot, some even their lives in exchange for their soul. You see they had great faith (belief) that their souls (bodies) would be raised at the first resurrection. But listen up; (v.27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his holy angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Now these are the words of Jesus (the Son of man), you know the savior of the world. He said that when he comes he is going to judge every man according to his works. Don't be deceived thinking you all you need to do is have faith in the Lord and you will be saved?

It's more then just confessing with your mouth, it's action as well. Like Faith and works.
Eze 36:25, Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
 

justbyfaith

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I agree with all you post, but it's weird that you would post this, after what I post, as if it's not going to happen. Which would mean that, you don't understand what you posting here. You didn't take the time to consider that I post the same conversation from Isaiah and Paul, who are on one accord.

Let's take a look at Romans the 14th chapter. Let's see if this chapter is actually giving us permission to eat anything that moves or is meat and drink used as illustrating tool to make a point. We will begin at verse one.
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. (Romans 14:1) He that is weak in the faith? Hmm? How's an individuals faith increase?

Take note; So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17)

Therefore by hearing the word of God our faith will be established; and if we believe, we will do what the Lord requires us to do. So, the individual in Romans the 14th chapter at the first verse which is weak in the "faith" is a babe in the Doctrine of the Lord. Also in that first verse Paul also states, "receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations."

In other words, accept this brother or sister but, do not agree with their uncertain arguments. Meaning, if this individual, who is weak in the faith hasn't obtained the correct concept of a particular scripture or verse, correct them, do not agree if they are incorrect.

For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. (Romans 14: 2-3)

Is this literal food? Or is the Apostle Paul giving us an example? Let's skip to the 14th, 15th verse.

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. (Romans 14: 14, 15)

Sisters and brothers, how can an individual grieve or destroy another with his or her meat? What does Paul mean by, "Now walkest thou not charitably?" What is charity? The love of mankind correct? What is love according to the Word of God? Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:10). Therefore if you walk not in the Law of God, and preach the Law of God, you can destroy and individual with your knowledge of the word. In other words practice what you preach.
Take a look at what Paul says in the 5th chapter of Hebrews.

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Hebrews 5:12-14)

In Romans the 14th chapter Paul was not referring to literal food at all. He was simply using food for an example. Now, let's return to Romans the 14th chapter and see that he was in fact talking about the word of righteousness instead of literal food.

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. (Romans 14:17)
I must disagree with you here. Taking a verse out of Hebrews in an attempt to change the meaning of what we find in 1 Corinthians is an unkosher hermeneutic, impaho.

I would also answer your other contentions with the following scripture.

Gal 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11, But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12, And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.


We are justified by faith; and the law is not of faith but according to the law, a man who does what the law says, lives because he does what the law says. This is an alternate mode of salvation than receiving forgiveness through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ. This also indicates that doing what the law says is not the prescribed method of salvation when it comes to faith. As a matter of fact, the concept of faith is diuametircally opposed to thinking that you can obtain your salvation through keeping the law; or, being justified by the law.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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All of that is true, but again, Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
I was looking for this post and it led me to post the following in an older thread. Hopefully it will help someone.

Heb 10:26, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Heb 10:28, He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Heb 10:29, Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Heb 10:30, For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. Heb 10:31, It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


We must understand this passage by certain biblical knowledge.
First, we find that according to scripture, Christians are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6). Where no law is (where it does not apply), there is no transgression (Romans 4:15); sin is not imputed where there is no law (where it does not apply) (Romans 5:13).

We find in holy scripture, therefore, that "all things are lawful for me" (1 Corinthians 6:12, 10:23).

Now, sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4); so I conclude that as a believer under grace, I cannot sin in the eyes of the Father (1 John 3:9); who looks down on me from heaven and sees the shed blood of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

So, looking at the passage, how is it possible to sin willfully after having received the knowledge of the truth? All of the things that I have mentioned above are obtained by faith in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross.

So, I would sin willfully by failing to place my faith in Jesus and what He did for me on the Cross. In such a situation, the sin of transgressing the law would not be covered and I would be sinning against the Lord.

To sin willfully, I think that it would have to be a situation where I am not tempted to sin and a situation where I do not sin out of weakness. It is written,

Psa 37:23, The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
Psa 37:24, Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.


I may fall into some temptation; but if I sin out of weakness then there is the possibility that I have not sinned willfully against the Lord; and I ought to look up in my faith and believe that there is indeed forgiveness for me, even in light of this passage.

If I keep faith in Jesus and what He did for me, then I am blessed according to the following scripture.

Rom 4:7, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8, Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


As long as sin is not imputed to me, I cannot sin willfully against the Lord, in the Lord's sight.

So then, the willful sin that is being spoken of in the passage has to do primarily with rejecting faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the Cross.
 
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