How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

DavidTree · Oct 12, 2021

Check everyone of my Posts - i always agree with 1 Thess 1:10 and 5:9-11
i have NEVER said that the Body of Christ is appointed to God's wrath - NEVER

But you reject the Revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ who HE HIMSELF said His Saints will endure the Great Tribulation.
Revelation 6: 9-11, 7:9-17 , 14:9-13 and 20:4-6

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 12, 2021

DavidTree said:

You've demonstrated repeatedly that you have little regard for "chronology"... and with the Subject / theme Paul is covering in his Thessalonians letters, nor of the SEQUENCE revealed within them (which agree between the two letters)...

...nor regard that chpt 1:7-8 is [ALSO] telling of a SPANS OF TIME (not a "singular point in time / singular "24-hr day," as you've suggested repeatedly, in complete disregard to how related passages ALSO reveal to be the case).

If you are not willing to study all these out, I cannot help you. Believe what you will, DT.

Laura798 · Oct 12, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

Hi DW, I read it, and it sounds like you are taking the number 1000 literally--but the whole book of Revelation is SYMBOLS. Some of the symbols are explained, some aren't--again, I explained clearly WHY it cannot be a literal 1000 years.

And then are you also saying the Weeks in Daniel are literal? Then how would we get to the year in which Christ comes if it were literal weeks?

DavidTree · Oct 12, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

Your excuse comes from a carnal mind that is not submitted unto the Holy Spirit and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Your sin is evident as you stated here in this post and is before the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit and those who obey the Truth.

Laura798 · Oct 12, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

I don't know what the above means or what your even referring two--i know you are responding to others, but it would help if you could be a little clearer. Referring to this bit>and that doesn't even consider what I'd already put about the SEQUENCE (which AGREES with Rev19-20) found in the TWO "PUNISH" words (separated BY "TIME") in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] ... (among other passages)...

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 12, 2021

@Laura798 's Post #2083,

I believe that even the clearly "symbolic" things represent REAL THINGS.

One should understand (via comparing scripture with scripture) whether the "5 months" means "5 months" or it means "5 wise virgins" (

)

____________

And I would caution the readers about something scholars label "Apocalyptic Literature" :

Apocalyptic Fixation – DR. RELUCTANT (wordpress.com)

[quoting from article]

"

Before swallowing the ideas of apocalyptic literature it is wise to examine the presuppositions of those who promote it. "

[end quoting; underline mine]

Icedaisey · Oct 12, 2021

Runningman said:

Let him read.
Matthew 16:13-18

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And still @cv5, "No,no, not one." 😉

cv5 · Oct 12, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

From your link...

"that these will "[and to be admired/marveled at] in all those having believed, because was believed 'the testimony of us to you' IN THAT DAY" [this is not speaking of the Thessalonians themselves, but that FUTURE group of ppl existing on the earth FOLLOWING "our Rapture" who will come to faith, i.e. BELIEVING what Paul and the NT apostles and prophets have said [you could say, "the LETTER they have WRITTEN" aka "the testimony of us to you"--but they [i.e. Trib saints] come to believe it FOLLOWING "our Rapture," that is "IN THAT DAY [i.e. in "the DOTL]"

That is undoubtedly the case for the Book of Revelation as well.....edification and instruction for saints YET FUTURE.

2 Thes 1:9-10
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

Yes sir....there are your "bookends". Amazing stuff and great detective work.....

You know....just looking at the text, does the statement "because our testimony among YOU (the saved Church) was believed" imply that those who believe DURING the 70th week do so because of the Rapture event itself?
I mean to say that believers TODAY who GOT RAPTURED become a tremendous testimony (really a "sign") to those who come to belief DURING the 70th week?

What do you think?

Laura798 · Oct 12, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

Yes of course, we all know a symbol is representative of something else--but THAT is exactly my point.

The angel explains some of the things, for example the dragon IS__________________the prostitute IS_____________________________ the lake of fire IS,__________________the many waters ARE_______________________________.

I don't see us getting anywhere in this--I think we are just fooling ourselves by typing back and forth that we are actually accomplishing something.

I confess there is something disturbingly addictive about this---and at some point I think we all should ask ourselves if our time would be better spent elsewhere, since I don't think anyone is really edifiied by any of this (many don't even read what has been written) and no one has changed their mind.

ewq1938 · Oct 12, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

Two candle sticks are two churches, but the churches are not identified by name.
Two olive trees means two annointed people, that comes from OT. These are very likely to be the two prophets from Rev 11, also not identified by name.

Yeah well they are wrong on this because they are ignoring that two churches are part of two witnesses.

cv5 · Oct 12, 2021

Laura798 said:

DW---you seem to have a great need to be right---even at the risk of making no sense whatsoever. CLEARLY based on Scripture, he wrote the letter years later!

2Chr. 21:4 Now when Jehoram had taken over the kingdom of his father and made himself secure, he killed all his brothers with the sword, and some of the rulers of Israel also.
2Chr. 21:12 Then a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet saying, “Thus says the Lord God of your father David, ‘Because you have not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father and the ways of Asa king of Judah,
2Chr. 21:13 but have walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and have caused Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to play the harlot as the house of Ahab played the harlot, and you have also killed your brothers, your own family, who were better than you,
2Chr. 21:14 behold, the Lord is going to strike your people, your sons, your wives and all your possessions with a great calamity;
Notice that Elijah sent a letter to Jehoram, who is the son of Jehoshaphat of Judah. If Elijah sent a letter to Jehoshaphat’s successor, Jehoram, then it appears Elijah was alive even after Jehoshaphat’s reign, which contradicts the conclusion that Elijah was removed before Jehoshaphat’s rule.

Guess what my dear? There are SEVEN letters that the Lord Himself wrote.....2000 years ago. Written to us, here and now, today.

I think that should be more than enough to quash your argument.

ewq1938 · Oct 12, 2021

walknlight said:

That's obviously wrong since there isn't one church building that is the one and only church of saved Christians.

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 12, 2021

@Laura798 's Post #2085,

I had supplied the text of Isaiah 24:21-22[23] which shows the SAME SEQUENCE that Revelation 19 [His Second Coming to the earth] and Revelation 20 [GWTj 1000 years LATER] also shows:

Isa24 -

21 In that day the LORD will PUNISH [1]

the host of heaven above [/the host of the high ones that are on high]

and the kings of the earth below [/the kings of the earth upon the earth]. [<--Compare Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (at Christ's Second Coming to the earth)]

22 They will be gathered together

like prisoners in a pit. [<--"pit" in the OT often refers to death or the grave... i.e. no longer living/existing on the earth... no longer connected with those on the earth whatsoever]

They will be confined to a dungeon

and PUNISHED after many days [/and after many days shall they be PUNISHED]. [2]

23 The moon will be confounded

and the sun will be ashamed;

for the LORD of Hosts will reign

on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem,

and before His elders with great glory.

Laura798 · Oct 12, 2021

cv5 said:

The Mad Hatter Strikes Again

CV5--Quashing an argument with nonsense may work with someone who has had one too many martinis, but it doesn't work with with me. Case in point Christ wrote ZERO letters--the apostles wrote all of the new testament epistles.

And how the new testament epistles have anything to do with the letter Elijah wrote to Jehoram I've no clue...

"Then Elijah the prophet wrote Jehoram this letter: “This is what the LORD, the God of your ancestor David, says: You have not followed the good example of your father, Jehoshaphat, or your grandfather King Asa of Judah."--2 Chronicles 21:12

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 12, 2021

[2Chron21:12] 12 Then a letter came to Jehoram from Elijah the prophet, which stated: “This is what the LORD, the God of your father David, says: ‘ You have not walked in the ways of your father Jehoshaphat or of Asa king of Judah,

[it does not state "THEN ELIJAH the prophet WROTE Jehoram this LETTER..."

(read carefully) ]

cv5 · Oct 12, 2021

Laura798 said:

Aahhhhhh no lady. Those Seven letters were DICTATED word-for-word to John. John merely wrote then down like a secretary. But Jesus HIMSELF wrote those letters. No doubt about it.

BTW....the entire Bible is in effect written by the Lord Jesus. And there are VAST VAST quantities of OT writings that were DICTATED directly by God to prophets who merely wrote down the very words.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=thus+saith+the+Lord&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

Take your pick lady.....

Laura798 · Oct 12, 2021

Argh. I had decided to jump out of the rabbit hole and then made the mistake of responding to ONE question to a previous post---and now my day is GONE. This chat is like Christian Crack---or like potato chips--both empty calories. I don't feel anything I've shared has helped anyone and vice versa.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
1 Thessalonians 5:11
Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.
Romans 14:19
So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

walknlight · Oct 12, 2021

DavidTree said:

Revelation /Great Tribulation

DavidTree said:

Uh HUh,
and you didnt answer the question ,by habit.(habitual)

God Bless!!!

walknlight · Oct 12, 2021

ewq1938 said:

You should re-read what was posted...

cv5 · Oct 12, 2021

Laura798 said:

Are you aware that Paul had a very deliberate pattern in his epistles? I betchya you didn't. Well let me tell you....

1) FIRSTLY he would lay out CORRECT DOCTRINE.
2) THEN he would lay on the exhortations to duty, observance and right behavior.

Case in point see Rom 12:1&2. Which came ONLY AFTER 11 CHAPTERS OF BUILDING DOCTINE. Paul's other epistles follow the same pattern.

You have no right to do #(2) because you have utterly failed to do #(1).......

How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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