Praying to the Holy Spirit vs. Praying to the Father

Baruch · May 9, 2009

Truly that is the power... the power of God in witnessing as the Holy Spirit puts words on our mouths to speak as it is by the scriptures can the Holy Spirit convict and convince others as the Father draws all men unto the Son.

Of such a request, no believer have need make for they have received the power just as they have received the Holy Spirit as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus.

Whenever we pray or worship.. it is in the Holy Spirit. It is in regards to our faith that our words, prayers, and worship should not suggests otherwise that we are out of the Spirit and thus apart from the truth for He is with us always.

eric51 · May 9, 2009

Holy Spirit is God. Just as is the Father and the Son. While I find it unusual to pray to the Holy Spirit, I wouldn't criticize someone for doing so. I usually pray to the Father and Jesus, and I very often pray through Mary to the Father or Jesus.

Baruch · May 9, 2009

eric51 said:

Criticism has nothing to do with it. It is correcting by the scriptures.

There are other spirits already in the world before the Gospel came. The rudiments of the world has it in this wise... to seek after spirits and to pray to spirits.

American Indians will testify of the Great Spirit as they dance and chant to call for it to come. They will also testify of animal spirit guides.

Mediums that consult with the spirits of the dead and wizards that consult with familiar spirits causing them to peep and mutter nonsensical babblings.

God would call us to come out of the world and not speak as the world speak.

1 John 4: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

So how does one avoid the spirit of error or these spirits that are in the world? God the Father provided only one way to approach Him and that is through His Son. Note the commandment of His invitation.

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

God the Father addressed the specific Person of the Trinity in approaching Him and that is the Son. This goes to worship as well as to prayer.

1 Timothy 2: 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

How specific is Jesus in referring to Himself as the only Way to God the Father? To climb up by any other way... is a work of iniquity as it is breaking the commandment of His invitation.

John 10: 1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. .... 7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

It is by Jesus Christ that we have received the Holy Ghost as our seal of adoption and thus the inner Holy Spirit is still pointing us to go to Jesus in prayer and in worship for He is the only Way to come to the Father so as to differentiate from other spirits that are in the world.

So consider that point of contention as anything that is placed between us and Jesus is a thief and a robber... be it a priest for confession, the Mass, praying to Mary, or the Holy Spirit. Indeed, the true definition of the "anti-christ" is "instead of Christ" so one is not really honouring Mary in that way nor are they honouring the Holy Spirit in that way either. So climbing up around Jesus is the biggest clue for any believer to have as scriptures should tell them if their church has gotten off track through the centuries.

The solution? To avoid false prophets and false spirits... narrow the Way back to Jesus.

Matthew 7:13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Luke 13:24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

John 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

So heed the commandment of God's invitation to come to Him through His Son in prayer and in worship and for life. Anything else is a work of iniquity and labouring in unbelief for we can only have a relationship with God the Father through the Son. By learning of Him through the scriptures of all the promises of God being yes in Christ Jesus so that our love may abound yet more and more, our hopes in Him shall not be divided by works or by catholicism.

John 6:28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

1 John 1:9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 3: 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Hebrews 10:14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Romans 8:24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

1 Corinthians 1:18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 15:2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Colossians 1:21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Jude 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Faith in Jesus Christ is all you need to have a relationship with God as He will help you to live as His after having made you His by faith alone. This is why we can rest in Jesus from all our labours. He did it.

NoahsDad · May 9, 2009

[QUOTE]So as much as you are misusing this portion of scriptures.. as I am sure others have misled you by it, you need to take a step back and ask Jesus the meaning of this account.. the what for.. and why for so you do not ignore the vast majority of scriptures that testifies of our faith to the contrary of what many are implying Acts 8 stands for[/QUOTE].
did you even read my whole post b4 you started rambling?

I didnt say I myself believed in it.I just said that I could see where they were coming from.And I wasnt twisting the scriptures like you do I was just posting them.No comentary of the Gospel according to me just the scripture.
[QUOTEEphesians 1:12-15 & Ephesians 4:4-6 & .....

][/QUOTE]
Eph 1:12 for us to be to the praise of His glory, the ones who had previously trusted in Christ;
Eph 1:13 in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also believing you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is an earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
& You left out a big part to back up what you are geting at cuz if you put it in there it would contradict you.
Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed to the day of redemption.
You see?
Even the most long winded of us can be blind to what is right in front of us.
I suggest you reread that very chapter in ephesians.Ch 4-From top to bottom this time to see whats really being said.
Its what I,ve been trying to say all along.It sais
Grow up! Were all the same body,with Christ as the head and we being members arent going to have the same job to do in it!!!
Eph 4:10 He that came down is the same who also went up above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.
Eph 4:11 And indeed He gave some to be apostles; and some prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 with a view to the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all may come to the unity of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be infants, being blown and carried about by every wind of doctrine, in the sleight of men, in craftiness to the deceit of error,
Eph 4:15 but speaking the truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, the Christ,
Eph 4:16 from whom all the body, having been fitted and compacted together through every assisting bond, according to the effectual working of one measure in each part, produces the growth of the body to the building up of itself in love.

KingdomGeneration · May 9, 2009

NDad, I'm convinced that most of these people, in their own religious pride, would try to argue with Jesus Himself if the Christ were to show up and attempt to correct an error that they may hold on to.

Just_Juice · May 9, 2009

THE BIBLE CLEARLY STATES : WHATEVER YOU DO, IN WORD OR DEED, DO IT ALL IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS; to the Glory of GOD the Father.

Aliciaforjesus · May 10, 2009

I do not find any thing wrong with speaking in tongues!

If I don't know what to pray, I pray in the Spirit!

How am I to know whats in a persons heart, if I pray in the Spirit, the Spirit knows the mind of the Father, and the Father know all hearts!

It seems to come to me where to look in the scriptures and what to pray.

I do not think the focus should be on the Holy Spirit but on Jesus and the finnished work of the cross!

I have seen many things in my walk with the Lord that would be considered signs and wonders, they all happend when I was in need of help, or when I was shareing the word and my testimony.

In Acts Jesus told them to go wiat for the Holy Spirit and that they would recieve power to be witnesses,
Signs and wonders follow those that believe I know this to be true!

I am concerned with the focus being on the Holy Spirit and not Jesus!

It is all about Him!

He lives in You!

Christ in you, the hope of glory!

He's with us 24/7 He never leaves us!

Baruch · May 10, 2009

NoahsDad said:

Your exact quote from your post below:

You did state that you can see where they got it from as you were not saying it was right or wrong, but you went on to lean towards validating the practise by the misuse of those portions of scriptures that many referred to. My quote quoted response by His grace was: "So as much as you are misusing this portion of scriptures.. as I am sure others have misled you by it, you need to take a step back and ask Jesus the meaning of this account.. the what for.. and why for so you do not ignore the vast majority of scriptures that testifies of our faith to the contrary of what many are implying Acts 8 stands for...." to oppose what you were leaning towards as a possible validation for such a practise.

Then you went on to expound on my corre tion as if it was not necessary but by doing so.. proved it needed to be done.

][/quote]
Eph 1:12 for us to be to the praise of His glory, the ones who had previously trusted in Christ;
Eph 1:13 in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also believing you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is an earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
& You left out a big part to back up what you are geting at cuz if you put it in there it would contradict you.
Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed to the day of redemption.
You see?
Even the most long winded of us can be blind to what is right in front of us.
I suggest you reread that very chapter in ephesians.Ch 4-From top to bottom this time to see whats really being said.
Its what I,ve been trying to say all along.It sais
Grow up! Were all the same body,with Christ as the head and we being members arent going to have the same job to do in it!!! [/quote]

The wayward are grieving the Holy Spirit by whom they were "sealed" by participating in a practise that denies Him by word and deed of what Christ has done.

The quote below speaks of the ongoing great commission. He gave... past tense.. that filling already to believers so they can be apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, or teachers... thus we are filled as a witness of what He has done. To speak or do otherwise is to bear false witness and glorify something else in His name.

I am glad that you are not saying one way or another in one sense, but you kinda did without meaning to.. even in this latter post from you.

What should be in front of every believer that seeks after the supernatural is this prophetic warning.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

What is the best description of the "holy laughter" movement? Seducing spirits.

How is calling for the Holy Spirit to come when He is in us in according to our faith not be seen as hypocrisey? And yet to examine ourselves in the faith is this verse.

2 Corinthians 13:5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

May God cause the increase, but as it is, I am pointing to what is obvious by the scriptures to me by His grace and in its application for our discernment.. again by His grace, but again... only God can cause the increase for I am nothing. He will allow those that follow Him to see the red flags that are raised.

May He help you to correct your speech so that your faith in what He has done may shine apart from the lies that has crept into christianity as if He has not done it yet.

Baruch · May 10, 2009

Just_Juice said:

AMEN!!

But sadly, some do in word and deed in the name of the Holy Spirit... "instead of Christ". That is why these revivals that has the banner of a man's name in the banner of the crusade or the name of the "Spirit" being exalted in the movement should be a red flag for some, but the Lord delivered me from it even while I was in it and so He will for the elect as well.

Scriptures is the best way we can learn of Jesus and grow in Him; not by going to a revival.

John 5:39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41I receive not honour from men.

42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only

eric51 · May 10, 2009

Baruch said:

Criticism has nothing to do with it. It is correcting by the scriptures.

Click to expand...

Baruch said:

----------------------------------------------------
My friend, you are seriously misinformed about the proper understanding and interpretation of both Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Church.

Job 33:4 - "The Spirit of God made me and the breath of the Almighty has given me life." Only God is the creator of life. Luke 12:10 - Jesus says blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. Only God can be blasphemed. John 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:7 - the Father and the Son send the Counselor, the Holy Spirit - Isaiah 9:6 - the Counselor is Mighty God.

The Holy Spirit is GOD. If one does not think so, then one denies the Trinity, a dogma of Christianity, and thereby removes himself from the flock.

One does "not correct by Scripture". Scripture is a book, nothing more; it is the Church that guides us; guides us by the Holy Spirit. On questions of faith and morals, it is the Church that is infallible, not the individual. Ironically, it is Scripture that tells us this. John 14:16 - Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit would be with the Church forever. The Spirit prevents the teaching of error on faith and morals. It is guaranteed because the guarantee comes from God Himself who cannot lie. John 14:26 - Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit would teach the Church (the apostles and successors) all things regarding the faith.

Prayer engages and expresses our relationship with God; it how we communicate with Him. The name of Jesus is the God-given key to ChristIan prayer. To pray to Jesus is to invoke Him and to call Him to us. Jesus is God, as is the Father and as is the Holy Spirit.

There are many levels of Mediation. 1 Tim 2:1-2 - because Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5),many well-intentioned, but uninformed people deny the Christian belief that the saints on earth and in heaven can mediate on our behalf. But before Paul's teaching about Jesus as the "one mediator," Paul urges supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people. Paul is thus appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator. Why? 1 Tim 2:3 - because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ's role as mediator. 1 Tim. 2:5 - therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators). 1 Cor. 3:9 - God invites us to participate in Christ's work because we are God's "fellow workers" and one family in the body of Christ. God wants His children to participate. The phrase used to describe "fellow workers" is "sunergoi," which literally means synergists, or cooperators with God in salvific matters. Does God need fellow workers? Of course not, but this shows how much He, as Father, loves His children. God wants us to work with Him.

Amen

Baruch · May 10, 2009

Aliciaforjesus said:

Matthew 6: 5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Be sure you are using the right version. The NIV has it wrong. Note the bad grammar in it. May the Lord help you to see.

Romans 8:26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. NIV

See in verse 27 above and compare that with the correct translation below in the King James Bible. How can the "he" in the King James Bible be "the Spirit" in verse 27 of the NIV? If you look at the NIV only, you can see that the "he" that is seperate from us in searching our hearts is the same "he" that is seperate from the Spirit in knowing the mind of the Spirit so it cannot be the "Spirit" that intercedes for us in verse 27 of the NIV.

Romans 8:26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

If you compare the King James Bible with the NIV, you will note that whereas the NIV has the Spirit making intercession directly with sounds of groanings no words can express, in the King James Bible, there is no sound at all... as in groanings not uttered. So then the reader... you and me.. would wonder how can the Holy Spirit intercede then? And we would note the term "itself" in the King James Bible instead of "Himself" in the NIV being used. As we read on, we see in the King James Bible, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us by just being in us as Christ Jesus Whom searches our hearts and knoweth the mind of the Spirit as "he" is the one making intercession for the saints in according to the will of God because 1 Timothy 2:5 as the man, Christ Jesus... Our risen Saviour.. as the only Mediator between God and man.

1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Thus the Holy Spirit by being in us was the means by which "itself" was the term applied to refer to Jesus as the "official" One making intercession for us. Jesus is the One that searches the hearts:

Hebrews 4: 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Who is the Word of God?

John 1: 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So it is unneccessary for the "spirit" to come over you and lead you to pray in tongues for it is by Jesus as Our Mediator and the Holy Spirit fulfilling His role as the Comforter that the Father already knows before we even ask or say anything. So then stop leaning on this "spirit" as a necessity for praying and have peace that when you do not know what to pray, He already knows. This is why it is important to know that and believe that so that others that do not speak in tongues, you may bear witness of that truth as part of the Good News so they can feel free to go before the throne of grace in time of need.

Hebrews 4:14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Just clarifying that you do not need to wait for this "spirit" to come over you so you can have confidence that God knows what is going on with you even though you do not know what to pray by praying in this prayer language. Scriptures in the King James Bible declares the errant implication in the NIV as not the will of God for anyone "needing" to pray in that manner. If the Holy Spirit in you is pointing you to Jesus, then He would not be impressing on you to come over you, taking your eyes off of Jesus as if the Holy Spirit is the means for prayer. Nope. The Holy Spirit in you would not do that. AND more importantly, scriptures says you do not need to pray like that.

I can say no more on this subject matter as I am being led to leave you in God's hands for you to receive wisodm as to why Paul was exhorting prophesy over all spiritual gifts and why he was downplaying tongues in comaprison to the gift of prophesy all throughout that chapter in 1 Corinthians 14 , but yet concluding his point by being careful so as to not give the impression to forbid speaking in tongues, but again, everything to be done decently and in order.

Did you know that voodooists and wizards peep and mutter when familiar spirits come over them?

Isaiah 8: 19And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

God would have us stand apart from the world by not having us be invloved in prayer language by giving tongues that are to come with interpretation. How else can God proved that He has called those sinners out unless His Way is not the rudiment found in the world to speak as they speak and hear as they hear.

1 John 4: 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

That guideline is in according to the faith stated in 2 Corinthians 13:5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

The following guidlien is when people point to the spirit coming in the worship place or being felt as coming over you.

3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Resting in that promise of verse 4 is the key to Jesus freeing you from that snare. More proof that this prayer language is of the world is it sounds like the world as they speak and hear below.

1 John 4:5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

This call in verse 7 propels me to share this for your edification out of love for you so that He may cause the increase to rest in Him to drop the total lack of necessity for prayer language as tongues are meant to come with interpretation. Ask Jesus for wisdom in reading 1 Corinthians 14 again.

Paul even stated that those that speak in tongues were to pray while they are speaking in tongues that someone may interpret... so the unknown tongue being spoken is a foreign language. It was never meant to be a stand alone gift; that was why Paul was downplaying that gift... and yet exhorting the gift of prophecy over all the other spiritual gifts as well because it is given to the edification in the knowledge of Him as interpretation with tongues was supposed to do as well in preaching the Good News as well as giving thanks for those that hear and understand, but if they did not... there were to be an interpretor.

1 Corinthians 12: 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

So it is not just the practise by wayward believers we need to be aware of as you do know, praise the Lord.. but also we need to not believe every spirit, but test them by the scriptures as it is evident that you do not need prayer language and it coming over you, interrupting you while you are praying to Jesus shows... that is another spirit and not the One you were sealed with within you. Don't think it could not happen to you or a believer because 1 John 4:1-7 says it can so that si why we need to test the spirits and thus just because tongues come with it, doesn't mean it is from God. The tongues in 1 Corinthians 12 above are the real tongues as they are to come with interpretation.

God would not give a gift and bury it without interpretation by calling it a prayer language when that was already in the world before the Gospel of Jesus Christ came. Nope. He would not.

I shall pray for you, but as it is, I am being led to leave the forum as no one is heeding the red flags of concern nor taking it to Jesus in prayer. I reckon it is necessary for those He calls to come to the Lord to be consulting with Him and not have procrastinating believers use me to argue against as an excuse for not coming to Him about this or any other issue raised out of love for them in keeping the faith which is the good fight. Some hear me, but the some do not hear all that He would have me share.

For those that do hear some of what I have shared, take it to Jesus in prayer for that which you are having trouble in receiving in regards to our faith. Wisdom & help comes from the Lord.

Matthew 10:12And when ye come into an house, salute it. 13And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

This may be the last call anyone may read as I leave this forum in God's hands by His grace: May He raise up workers for the harvest. He will have the elect ready to go for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. I thank Him that I can rest in Him for that.

Revelation 22:17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

John 6: 35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Philippians 1: 6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: ...9And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

1 John 3:3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Jude 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

MahogonySnail · May 10, 2009

Sounds like they over do it.

Better than a church full of prune-faces.
soaking, it's not new age. It's a form of meditation. Christians have been doing it for centuaries, unfortunately a lost practice in the church.

Great, if I need healing there's a place to go.

That could be a problem.

I don't have a problem with praying to the Spirit, but this church seems like they do it in excess.

Piano_hero · May 10, 2009

The Holy Spirit is power of God. praying TO the Spirit is like talking to God's power . People also pray to God's "presence" and ask it to enter them . a "presence" isnt a self aware being. it means to be present . Someitmes the "holy Spirit" is talked about as a being (Jehovah himself) but other times its power that God sends

MahogonySnail · May 10, 2009

But Piano_hero we know that the Spirit is a person. We normally refer to the power of the Spirit to distinguish the power from the Person.

Piano_hero · May 10, 2009

Thaddaeus said:

whatever glory Jesus received from his Father is given to us
""I have given them the glory that you gave me, so that they may be one, just as we are one."

Aliciaforjesus · May 11, 2009

My question was Praying to the Holy Spirit vs. Praying to the Father!

It was not about speaking in tongues or about the Gifts of the Spirit!

It was about prayer!

Jesus taught us how to pray and I don't see how it can get so twisted!

Isn't it all about Him!

Christ is the cheif cornerstone isn't He?

He is the Alpha and the omega!

He is the author and finnisher of our faith is He not?

Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that He is Lord!

Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit,

He gave some of us the gift of speaking in tongues,
and we are to use it!

I don't think it is used correctly in many churches, because it does say not to speak in tongues unless there is interpitation.

But as far as my own time with the Lord, I let the Spirit lead me in the prayer and in the word.

The Holy Spirit does His job when we have faith in Jesus! To Glorify Jesus the Son!

LynnJ · May 11, 2009

Baruch said:

Matthew 28:18-20
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Acts 1:7-8
7He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Acts 4:31
After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

Acts 11:23-24
23When he arrived and saw the evidence of the grace of God, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts.
24He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.

Romans 15:13-14
13May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
14I myself am convinced, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, complete in knowledge and competent to instruct one another.

1 Thessalonians 1:4-6
4For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. 6You became imitators of us and of the Lord; in spite of severe suffering, you welcomed the message with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 1:12
12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

I believe that the Holy Spirit's power that works through believers in order to witness is scriptural, and that God uses us to witness to the lost. Unbelievers usually do not go around reading the Bible, and the cliche that "Christians are the only Bible that some people read" is true in that respect. We are also to teach others what the Word says in order to make disciples of all nations. We are to live our lives as examples of God's love in front of others, share the gospel, preach and teach others, but then allow the Holy Spirit to actually do the convicting work on their hearts.

Piano_hero · May 11, 2009

Aliciaforjesus said:

My question was Praying to the Holy Spirit vs. Praying to the Father!

It was not about speaking in tongues or about the Gifts of the Spirit!

It was about prayer!

Jesus taught us how to pray and I don't see how it can get so twisted!

Isn't it all about Him!

Christ is the cheif cornerstone isn't He?

He is the Alpha and the omega!

He is the author and finnisher of our faith is He not?

Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that He is Lord!

Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit,

He gave some of us the gift of speaking in tongues,
and we are to use it!

I don't think it is used correctly in many churches, because it does say not to speak in tongues unless there is interpitation.

But as far as my own time with the Lord, I let the Spirit lead me in the prayer and in the word.

The Holy Spirit does His job when we have faith in Jesus! To Glorify Jesus the Son!

so you are saying that people that pray to the Holy Spirit are incorrect, but you want people to pray to jesus ? ill have to agree with jesus and pray to his and i's Father

MahogonySnail · May 11, 2009

There is really no scripture that tells us to pray to Jesus, but a lot of christians do. Jesus never said "pray to me", as such. There's no scripture which tells us to worship a bible version but many christians do. Anyway the Holy Spirit is Jesus's Father so I don't see a problem. If you pray to the Spirit you are praying to the Father. The Father is not only in heaven but also within us. Father is not a name anyway but a role. As long as they believe in Jesus and know they aren't praying to some other spirit then I don't see a problem. I frequently talk to the Holy Spirit. I believe in Jesus. What's the problem. There is only one God, not three. If you pray to one you pray to them all.

CARM website says its ok to pray to the Spirit..

http://www.carm.org/questions/about-doctrine/who-do-we-pray-father-son-or-holy-spirit

If it is okay to pray to the Father, and the Son, is it alright to pray to the Holy Spirit? The answer would be yes because the Holy Spirit is also God. Nevertheless, we never see an instance in the Bible where anyone prays to the Holy Spirit? Why is that? The answer is that the Holy Spirit does not bear witness of Himself. He bears witness of the Son (John 15:26). But still, we can pray to the Spirit because we are also called into fellowship with the Spirit. 2 Cor. 13:14 says, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all."
Finally, we can simply pray to God. We can address God, the Lord, in our prayers and as you feel led, address the members of the Trinity.

MahogonySnail · May 11, 2009

Here's the verse that shows the Spirit is the Father.

Mat 1:20 And as he thought upon these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take to you Mary as your wife. For that in her is fathered of the Holy Spirit.
Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was this way (for His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph) before they came together, she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.

If you pray to the Spirit you are praying to your Father, these verses show the the Spirit and the Father are one and the same:

Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

But if we want to treat the Spirit as somehow less God or not the Spirit of the Father in the Trinity then do that.

Praying to the Holy Spirit vs. Praying to the Father

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