REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY

[Jocund]

You can tell when they've lost the debate when they resort to busting out their Hitler stuff. LOL. It's so tiresome. It's the same exact thing as when they call you a racist or a sexist or whatever. As soon as they break out the "But Hitler blah, blah blah" - just think of that as their intellectual death rattle. LOL.

Some of those who call themselves Orthodox Jews and "God's chosen" by bloodright seem to have a really big problem with others that would also have the same bloodright claim as descendants of the first Jewish Christians. They have no problem being blindly hateful but miss the irony that in doing so they become all of the things they accuse others of.

The entire "replacement" theology narrative is hateful, antiChristian rhetoric. Instead of accepting Christianity as a fulfilment of the religion of Abraham, Israel, and Judah they want to paint it as a usurping priesthood of only nonJews. The only response they seem to have is to try to pretend that there are no such thing as Christians with Jewish ancestry and pretend that the descendants of Israel mentioned in Revelation are somehow NonChristian Jews. Heaven forbid they look in a mirror and realise they are openly prosecuting their kin.

And every time the story flips to the holocaust, they ignore all of the atrocities that happened to Christians including in the Holodomor - Christians of which some were their kin by bloodright. They repeat dialogue about remembering history to avoid repeats but willfully ignore history that doesn't pertain to their specific Jewish sect. Even in this thread... mention the Holodomor and the attempt is there to steer it back to the holocaust.

"All of Israel!" They say, but openly disagree with scripture when it states "All of Israel are not Israel"

"All self-titled Jews are saved!" They say, but openly disagree with scripture when it states "Not all that call themselves Jews are Jews"

It's a broken record. They only have so many talking points before they start to gaslight and all of that one trick-pony is geared toward a specific type of audience receptive to that hateful antiChristian rhetoric.

They'll be the first to wrongfully accuse anyone of "istophobisms" and miss the irony of bearing false witness against one's neighbour. They miss the irony of promoting the evils of hatred and deception.

The strangest part is to see ones that claim to be Christian but somehow take offense to the concept that NonChristian Jews should turn to Christ for salvation.

 

[Jocund]

It doesn't debunk Romans 11. smh

No, it gives context for Romans 11.

 

[Roar]

Romans 10
New King James Version

Israel Needs the Gospel
10 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for [a]Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Israel Rejects the Gospel
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who [b]preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:
“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”
19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:
“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,
I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”
20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:
“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”
21 But to Israel he says:
“All day long I have stretched out My hands

 

[Jocund]

Romans 10
New King James Version

Israel Needs the Gospel
10 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for [a]Israel is that they may be saved.

Good. Now just read back one more chapter and tell me what Romans 9 says about Israel.

 

[Cabrillo]

It reads to me like a person that longs to be like he was taught to be. A Jew with traditions, heroes and ceremonies. He can't any more because he knows the truth. Judaism does not equal God. So in a sense he seems to be lamenting his separation from them. At the same time he's longing that his own kin would come to know and accept the truth. Only Jesus saves!

 

[Roar]

Some of those who call themselves Orthodox Jews and "God's chosen" by bloodright seem to have a really big problem with others that would also have the same bloodright claim as descendants of the first Jewish Christians. They have no problem being blindly hateful but miss the irony that in doing so they become all of the things they accuse others of.

The entire "replacement" theology narrative is hateful, antiChristian rhetoric. Instead of accepting Christianity as a fulfilment of the religion of Abraham, Israel, and Judah they want to paint it as a usurping priesthood of only nonJews. The only response they seem to have is to try to pretend that there are no such thing as Christians with Jewish ancestry and pretend that the descendants of Israel mentioned in Revelation are somehow NonChristian Jews. Heaven forbid they look in a mirror and realise they are openly prosecuting their kin.

And every time the story flips to the holocaust, they ignore all of the atrocities that happened to Christians including in the Holodomor - Christians of which some were their kin by bloodright. They repeat dialogue about remembering history to avoid repeats but willfully ignore history that doesn't pertain to their specific Jewish sect. Even in this thread... mention the Holodomor and the attempt is there to steer it back to the holocaust.

"All of Israel!" They say, but openly disagree with scripture when it states "All of Israel are not Israel"

"All self-titled Jews are saved!" They say, but openly disagree with scripture when it states "Not all that call themselves Jews are Jews"

It's a broken record. They only have so many talking points before they start to gaslight and all of that one trick-pony is geared toward a specific type of audience receptive to that hateful antiChristian rhetoric.

They'll be the first to wrongfully accuse anyone of "istophobisms" and miss the irony of bearing false witness against one's neighbour. They miss the irony of promoting the evils of hatred and deception.

The strangest part is to see ones that claim to be Christian but somehow take offense to the concept that NonChristian Jews should turn to Christ for salvation.

Of these I pray for daily that the scales should fall from their eyes just as I do the non-believing gentiles. Not all that calls itself Christianity is a fulfillment of the religion of Abraham, Israel, and Judah they want to paint it as a usurping priesthood of only non-Jews because religion will not save one soul but a personal relationship with Jesus Christ only. Religion leads to death only. That is one thing the "Two Witnesses" that will Witness to Israel during the Tribulation will try to get across to Israel when they have their Third Temple back. God wants a personal RELATIONSHIP with them through Yeshua/Jesus not "blood sacrifices" again. How many Messianic Jews do you actually know. Have you persecuted a Jew or a Messianic Jew that believes in Jesus? Do you understand what Romans 11: 26 means? I do and it does not mean every Jewish resident of Israel today. One of the sadist thing is the outrite Jew hatred operating witin "Christainity" today and justfied by so many within the Church! Would they do so in the presence of Christ? Is it Christ like? Should Jews torn to Yeshua/Jesus for salvation? Absolutely as Jesus said:

John 14:6
New King James Version
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Unfortunately, there are some "Christian" churches that are straying away from this Truth today and God is going to spew them out of His mouth.

 

[Roar]

Good. Now just read back one more chapter and tell me what Romans 9 says about Israel.

You have to take ALL scripture in CONTEXT, you can't take any out of context as a pretext to try to prove you pretext. that is not sound doctrine.

 

[Cabrillo]

You have to take ALL scripture in CONTEXT, you can't take any out of context as a pretext to try to prove you pretext. that is not sound doctrine.

Like does anyone really believe that Paul desired to become unsaved? Come on!

Break me off a piece of that Kit-Kat bar.

 

[ewq1938]

Please do not evade the question and side step what I asked. What does Romans say and to whom is it speaking?!

I just told you, plainly and concisely. Do not evade the answer.

 

[Roar]

Good. Now just read back one more chapter and tell me what Romans 9 says about Israel.

You have to understand Paul is speaking in Romans about the Jews and their relationships not only to God but Jesus and how Paul himself views those relationships.

I think you can sumarize Romans chapter 9 into verses 30-33.

30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles who did not follow after righteousness [who did not seek salvation by right relationship to God] have attained it by faith [a righteousness imputed by God, based on and produced by faith],

31 Whereas Israel, though ever in pursuit of a law [for the securing] of righteousness (right standing with God), actually did not succeed in fulfilling the Law.

32 For what reason? Because [they pursued it] not through faith, relying [instead] on the merit of their works [they did not depend on faith but on what they could do]. They have stumbled over the Stumbling Stone.

33 As it is written, Behold I am laying in Zion a Stone that will make men stumble, a Rock that will make them fall; but he who believes in Him [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him] shall not be put to shame nor be disappointed in his expectations.

However, I beleieve wholehearted that the vast majority of Christians misunderstand Romans Chapter 11 in that Paul is saying that there was and shall always be a faithfull remanat of believing Jews and that God has a plan whereby the remanat Jews upon Jesus return will be saved so that the Jewish Kingdom is restored during His 1000 year reign from Jerusalem.

 

[Jocund]

You have to understand Paul is speaking in Romans about the Jews and their relationships not only to God but Jesus and how Paul himself views those relationships.

I think you can sumarize Romans chapter 9 into verses 30-33.

30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles who did not follow after righteousness [who did not seek salvation by right relationship to God] have attained it by faith [a righteousness imputed by God, based on and produced by faith],

31 Whereas Israel, though ever in pursuit of a law [for the securing] of righteousness (right standing with God), actually did not succeed in fulfilling the Law.

32 For what reason? Because [they pursued it] not through faith, relying [instead] on the merit of their works [they did not depend on faith but on what they could do]. They have stumbled over the Stumbling Stone.

33 As it is written, Behold I am laying in Zion a Stone that will make men stumble, a Rock that will make them fall; but he who believes in Him [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him] shall not be put to shame nor be disappointed in his expectations.

However, I beleieve wholehearted that the vast majority of Christians misunderstand Romans Chapter 11 in that Paul is saying that there was and shall always be a faithfull remanat of believing Jews and that God has a plan whereby the remanat Jews upon Jesus return will be saved so that the Jewish Kingdom is restored during His 1000 year reign from Jerusalem.

You're so close. You just need to read a few verses back. Who counts as Israel? Who counts as the seed of the promise? And who are the children of God?

 

[kaylagrl]

I just told you, plainly and concisely. Do not evade the answer.

No, you did not! Who is Romans 11 speaking to?

 

[kaylagrl]

So your point is? As, I am waiting? Romans 11 answers your question.

I don't need it answered, they do. They are denying what it says, that Israel will be saved.

 

[kaylagrl]

You're so close. You just need to read a few verses back. Who counts as Israel? Who counts as the seed of the promise? And who are the children of God?

The Jews, still the Jews. You do not replace them, that's the whole point, you are grafted in.

 

[Jocund]

The Jews, still the Jews. You do not replace them, that's the whole point, you are grafted in.

And there you go again, hatefully insinuating that there is no such thing as a Christian with Jewish ancestry.

Some branches were cut from the tree, some were grafted in, and some (the descendants of the first Jewish Christians) were neither cut nor grafted.

Let go of your hateful rhetoric.

 

[Runningman]

I contend the term "replacement" is a misnomer, it doesn't accurately capture what the theology alleges is happening. No one is being replaced, but Christianity is the new covenant Jews were supposed to adopt and some missed the boat.

Hebrews 10:8-10
8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Christianity isn't an entirely new religion that has replaced something or someone. Rather it is a fulfillment of God's promise to the Gentiles and Jews:

Jeremiah 31:31
31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Isaiah 49:6
6And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Zechariah 2:11
11And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

 

[DavidTree]

No one is saying anything different.

Yes, they are - i believe it is member GraceAmbassador who started a thread on Two Gospels = one for the Jew and one for the Gentile

Romans 11: 26 And so all Israel will be saved. As it is written, The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will banish ungodliness from Jacob.

This occurs when HE returns and after two-thirds of the Jews perish in their sin.

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." John 15:6

Dead branches, Jew and Gentile who are not in Christ, are gathered to be burned.

 

[DavidTree]

I contend the term "replacement" is a misnomer, it doesn't accurately capture what the theology alleges is happening. No one is being replaced, but Christianity is the new covenant Jews were supposed to adopt and some missed the boat.

Hebrews 10:8-10
8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Christianity isn't an entirely new religion that has replaced something or someone. Rather it is a fulfillment of God's promise to the Gentiles and Jews:

Jeremiah 31:31
31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Isaiah 49:6
6And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Zechariah 2:11
11And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

Christianity started in the Garden in Genesis = Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. - Hebrews 10:7

Those Jews who were faithful to God carried the Gospel, the Ark, with them until the time appointed by the Father to send for the Son.

 

[Jimbone]

I think it's just another way to cause division. It's not "replacement Theology", that's a negative label that causes mass assumption, builds walls and causes division. If I had to name it I'd call it fulfillment theology. It is finished, right? Now our King, seated on His throne at the Right hand of the Father, given ALL authority in Heaven and on Earth, reigning until all enemies have been made a footstool for His feet. This is Kingdom Theology, these labels can be used so destructively. We just label and assume without ever listening and sharing, trying to truly understand each other before ANY correction. This goes for the saved and unsaved, but the unsaved don't KNOW the Father that commands us above all to love Him and to love each other, we are to be known for our love for one another, and I think that could use some work here on CC. This site is known online as the exact opposite, it is known to be a place to go get chewed up and spit out. It's kind of sad. I know the love here, and honestly stay away enough now to say I have no idea what the general mood is anymore, but know for a while there I experienced a group that was relentless, they would label you, condemn you, and never ever compromise, apologize, or try to come to any kind of understanding. I hate politics and before this never even thought about this site at all in this way, but allegedly, so only hearsay to be clear, but I heard a few these people were high donators to the site. Again hearsay and I do not know this, but I'm making a point for a reason, but it did seem these few people could run rough shot over any thread and never be touched while whenever they got someone riled up and lashed back out that person would face a temporary ban.

This was just a subjective look through my perspective, I want to be clear about that, but once I got banned and this "Christian thug group" was still able to continue uninterrupted no matter what, saying things FAR more offensive than the things I was banned a week for. That was enough to drive me out of daily visits here, I'm sure no one cares or even noticed I was gone, but when searching for another site to go to, I kept seeing CC labeled as a fight place. That is true, look, and I feel it reflects horribly on our King. We should do better to change that straight up, by His power for His glory. That's all I have to say. Thanks for letting me share. (as if you had a choice, but if you read it all still thanks)

 

[kaylagrl]

Yes, they are - i believe it is member GraceAmbassador who started a thread on Two Gospels = one for the Jew and one for the Gentile

Ah, if true, they are wrong. One Gospel for all.