People before Christ from the Old Testament, are they saved?

[Pilgrimshope]

God is eternal, what is true of God in the OT is true of God in the NT. Their sins had to be forgiven.

In the OT and in the NT, sins can only be forgiven through Christ. Through sacrifice that was a prophecy of Christ they were in "Abraham's bosom", it was made complete and perfect when Christ was crucified.

Now, they are to go to Christ. Before, the temple was most important for their forgiveness, when Christ came the temple was taken away from them, they are to go to Christ. Christ fulfilled the prophecy.

yes amen they believed who heard the witness of Jesus in Moses and the prophets in the same messiah same atonement thousands of years beforehand , we now nearly two thousand years later believe in the same messiah and atonement

the common thread is Gods word was always promising remission of sins by his word through faith alone by the witness of Christ therin.

through the promised by his word messiah , to be born of a virgin of David’s line and Abraham’s line , the one Moses wrote would come forth to speak Gods word . The one Abraham prophesied forth but faith

And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.”

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and Jesus fulfilled later

“The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”

‭‭John‬ ‭1:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Whether they heard of Jesus death then in the ot or we hear of it now days all the arrows in all of scripture point to accepting and believing the gospel of Matthew mark luke and John and having eternal life no matter when you hears about it or from whom whether Isaiah or Peter , whether John , Paul , or your own pastor today .

If it’s the true gospel the message of atonement through Christ and repentance toward God will be there

‬‬

 

[John146]

In the OT and in the NT, sins can only be forgiven through Christ.

Not totally true, sins could be forgiven through the sacrifices of animals. Sins were forgiven but not washed away. Only the shed blood of Jesus can wash away sins.

 

[John146]

God is eternal, what is true of God in the OT is true of God in the NT. Their sins had to be forgiven.

In the OT and in the NT, sins can only be forgiven through Christ. Through sacrifice that was a prophecy of Christ they were in "Abraham's bosom", it was made complete and perfect when Christ was crucified.

Now, they are to go to Christ. Before, the temple was most important for their forgiveness, when Christ came the temple was taken away from them, they are to go to Christ. Christ fulfilled the prophecy.

The cross was hidden. Not one OT saint was looking forward to the cross.

 

[Blik]

The cross was hidden. Not one OT saint was looking forward to the cross.

God is truth, and what man understands of that truth does not change the truth. They did not understand the sacrifice they made, only that God required they use it for the forgiveness of sin. They were not to do as the heathen did--to think of it as feeding God.

They understood that Christ, the Messiah was coming, but that is all they understood, just as we understand Christ will return. Scholars keep telling us they understand all about his return when in fact, they don't understand at all. They didn't then, they don't now.

 

[rhern]

Brother Rhern Do you remember when Jesus died people rose out of there graves?? ( Matt 27:52-53) Now how many?? We do not know, BUT!!! they were called saints!!! Verse52! Since God knows all things those who were lost at this time, meaning they did not believe in Jesus stayed in the ground it appears. We just do not know for sure,but this was interesting that at the moments of Jesus death many saints not only rose!!! But went into the City to show themselves!! Can you imagine a person who died comes up to you to pay you the debt he owns yea?? LOL The question I would ask is how long did they walk alive after they died?? Its wild to me,I wish the scripture would go into more detail about what the dead who came back to life did!! Good question bro!

Yes they were raised but for how long?

The Rapture:
! Thes. 4:
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Resurrection
Rev.20:
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[rhern]

God is truth, and what man understands of that truth does not change the truth. They did not understand the sacrifice they made, only that God required they use it for the forgiveness of sin. They were not to do as the heathen did--to think of it as feeding God.

They understood that Christ, the Messiah was coming, but that is all they understood, just as we understand Christ will return. Scholars keep telling us they understand all about his return when in fact, they don't understand at all. They didn't then, they don't now.

Jeusu said "no one can come to the Father except by beleiving in Him"

How can anyone beleive in Him if they don't know Him.

 

[Jocund]

[People before Christ from the Old Testament, are they saved?]

Jeusu said "no one can come to the Father except by beleiving in Him"

How can anyone beleive in Him if they don't know Him.

Great question, great thread.

There are three scenarios to look at:

1) The opportunity to know Christ was given in a vision or prophesy for those that were to be saved.
2) resurrection: those prior to Christ to be saved were included in the saints that were resurrected and walked the city during his time.
3) Finding Christ is possible after death.

Example: Abraham looked forward to Christ's coming, saw it and rejoiced. Either he is dead and able to observe the world (not asleep in death), or he was resurrected in some capacity, or he was given a vision. He is seen in the transfiguration scene, which may be used to rule out the theory that it was simply a vision in this case (unless we are getting into the deeper discussion of the flow of time).

The concept of finding Christ after death was seen in the popular concept of the Harrowing of Hell held by many catholic denominations.

"How can someone build a relationship based on a single encounter?"

It is possible that we have a wealth of experiences in our dreams that we simply forget in the waking mind. In example: dreamscapes were often used as a method of communication between Joseph and God. Perhaps we have a more personal relationship with God than we realize. And so too this might be the case for people that are Christ's in heart but lacking the words to describe the nature of the truth they feel inside. When a NonChristian openly becomes a brother or sister in Christ, was it because they chose to convert to the belief? Or was it because they realized that deep inside they were really Christian all along and surrendered to that calling?

It is possible to have misconceptions about who will be saved and who will be lost. Christ will be the judge of that.

 

[justbyfaith]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this...

But people who died with faith in YHWH, in the Old Testament, were held in a compartment of Hades called "Abraham's bosom"; which is mentioned in the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

When Jesus descended into hell, he then afterwards ascended out of hell and went to heaven (Ephesians 4:10); and He brought with Him those who were being held in Abraham's bosom (see Ephesians 4:8) into heaven with Him.

He preached the gospel to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:19) and through faith in the gospel they were allowed to follow on the train of Jesus' robe into heaven with Him.

 

[Marilyn]

People who died before the resurection, how will they be saved?

Hi rhern,

A very important question and glad you brought it to our attention.

Now as has been said earlier, no one can come to the Father except through Jesus. And isn`t the Lord wonderful to have made the way for people to come to the Father. So we know then that any who come to the Father, it is because of Christ, His sinless life, sacrificial death, His amazing rising from the dead and glorious ascension to the Father.

Now we know from God`s word that all people did not have this full revelation. God provided for that as He only revealed His plans involving the Lord over time. So then we ask `How can they be saved?` God tells us in His word.

`By faith.....the elders obtained a good testimony... ` (Heb. 11: 2)

These Old Testament saints believed what God told them and what He promised them. They did not have the full picture but were accounted righteous because they believed and obeyed to the revelation God gave.

 

[jb]

People before Christ from the Old Testament, are they saved?

Bit of a study can be found Here on this subject...

 

[John146]

God is truth, and what man understands of that truth does not change the truth. They did not understand the sacrifice they made, only that God required they use it for the forgiveness of sin. They were not to do as the heathen did--to think of it as feeding God.

They understood that Christ, the Messiah was coming, but that is all they understood, just as we understand Christ will return. Scholars keep telling us they understand all about his return when in fact, they don't understand at all. They didn't then, they don't now.

Yes, and they got into Abraham's bosom a different way than we get into Christ.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
A discussion like this one reminds me of Job and his friends. It's just
another perpetual bull session that will never get to the bottom of anything.

And by the way, Abraham's bosom isn't a place; it's the man's chest, viz:
Abraham was embracing Lazarus while speaking with the rich man.

I can only imagine Lazarus' relief to be told that the worst was over and his
circumstances were going to be much improved: no more poverty, no more
hunger, and best of all no more lesions on his body and dogs to lick them.
_

 

[rhern]

Hi rhern,

A very important question and glad you brought it to our attention.

Now as has been said earlier, no one can come to the Father except through Jesus. And isn`t the Lord wonderful to have made the way for people to come to the Father. So we know then that any who come to the Father, it is because of Christ, His sinless life, sacrificial death, His amazing rising from the dead and glorious ascension to the Father.

Now we know from God`s word that all people did not have this full revelation. God provided for that as He only revealed His plans involving the Lord over time. So then we ask `How can they be saved?` God tells us in His word.

`By faith.....the elders obtained a good testimony... ` (Heb. 11: 2)

These Old Testament saints believed what God told them and what He promised them. They did not have the full picture but were accounted righteous because they believed and obeyed to the revelation God gave.

thank you for your reply

Israel was promised a Kingdom and a King, a Messiah. Christians on the other hand will be co-heirs with Christ.

Chritians are fully blessed being accepted into the body of Christ.
Ephesians 3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Colossians:27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
salvation given to gentiles to provoke them to jealousy
Roman 11:11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

They (Israel) are blind unti the rapture of the Christians. until the times of the Gentiles
LUKE 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Until the fullness of the Gentile

Romans 11:12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? ....(we are given greater riches) how much more if they are restored

Romans 8: Heirs with Christ
…16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ— if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Ephesians 2: .................Christians are not included with in Old Testament promises
11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

 

[rhern]

The Kingdom, King, Messiah are promised to Israel.

For Christians they are members of the Body of Christ and Coheirs with Jesus and the Hope of Heaven

 

[Jocund]

Ephesians 2: .................Christians are not included with in Old Testament promises
11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

This is rhetoric that ignores the existence of Jewish Christians, especially those descended from the first Jewish Christians that were neither cut from nor grafted into the tree.

By what standard are you determining who counts as descending from Judah, Abraham, and Israel?

 

[rhern]

This is rhetoric that ignores the existence of Jewish Christians, especially those descended from the first Jewish Christians that were neither cut from nor grafted into the tree.

By what standard are you determining who counts as descending from Judah, Abraham, and Israel?

Here is more rhetoric found in the King James Version:

Acts 21:20And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

These are the believer lead by James

Are they for Jesus or for the Law of Moses?

 

[Magenta]

The cross was hidden. Not one OT saint was looking forward to the cross.

In John 8:56 Jesus said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."

And what of Job? He knew something was up!

Job 19:25-27a

 

[elights]

This is a very tricky and an important subject in Christianity that commands a deep explanation without which so many questions are very likely to crop up.
First of all,what we have to understand is that salvation has always been for ALL mankind whether in old or new covenant.Right from the fall,the basis of salvation has been the death of Jesus Christ,his blood covers the sins of old and New Testament saints,the requirement for salvation has always been faith,like the Bible says in Genesis 15:6 Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness,so the faith to the Old Testament people was in what Christ was to accomplish in the New Testament,The timely sacrificial system it’s self could not take away people’s sins but pointed to Christ’s ultimate sacrifice at the cross!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus went to Sheol (the place of the dead for three days before He was resurrected and preached to those there in the "Bosom of Abraham" which refers to the place of comfort in the biblical Sheol. Jesus tore off the gates and led captivity captive when He was resurrected on the third day.

Ephesians 4:8-10
New King James Version

8 Therefore He says:
“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also [a]first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

“And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭

it’s about the kingdom God has promised after we leave the flesh not this world but the next where Abraham is

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Mankind has a spirit that doesn’t die with our body that spirit can live with Christ in his kingdom with Abraham Isaac and Jacob .

Sheol is an Old Testament term for the spiritual prisons men are held in and places of torment for men’s spirit after they die until the day of the last judgement for the dead.

“I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:32

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,

and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel offers something all
Mankind seeks after lasting life not ending in death but walking through death to the imperishable world of the spirit, shed of the veil of the flesh . When our body dies , we don’t have to because of the gospel

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s the good news we often wonder and talk about death no longer has chains bonding us to it Jesus broke them away and now we don’t have to die with our flesh but can endure by the spirit in his kingdom Abraham also is spirit now in the spiritual kingdom of God including the people being gathered there that will one day be reunited with a renewed earth and a renewed body Abraham is part of Gods kingdom his promises are extended to us through Jesus

 

[John146]

In John 8:56 Jesus said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."

And what of Job? He knew something was up!

Job 19:25-27a

I agree, but the cross was a mystery, hidden from the beginning.