Saved by Water

[FreeGrace2]

I believe that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct from one another.

You can learn further about my point of view here:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/understanding-the-trinity-as-a-doctrine.201406/

This was said in your post:

The Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) inhabiting eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh.

The Son is the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24) dwelling in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 john 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 7:39); after having lived a human life in the Person of the Son (see Luke 23:46); released to the Father in eternity from the human body of the Son; and who also descends into time in order to produce holy scripture (1 Peter 1:11) and to work within the church in order to win souls to Jesus Christ.

If they are all the "same Spirit", how can they be "distinct from one another?

"The Father, in the descending into time to take on an added nature of human flesh, did not VACATE ETERNITY."

This clearly sounds as though the Father IS the Son from the bolded words.

I disagree with your assessment. There are 3 distinct Personalities, all having the exact same characteristics.

1 John 5:1 - This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

So, let's use "light" to explain the Trinity.

Just as God is 3 in One, so is light.

God the Father is neither seen nor felt. Actinic is a property of light that is neither seen nor felt. Deals with photosynthesis.

God the Son is both seen and felt. Luminiforus is both seen and felt.

God the Spirit is not seen but is felt. Calorific is not seen but is felt.

You cannot separate out these 3 characteristics of light. All 3 are present in light.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I also do not see what work I am performing when I submit to baptism. It is completely passive in its execution; the minister does everything.

Water baptism is a ritual. Just as circumcision was. Neither will save anyone.

Except that I called on the name of the Lord when I came up out of the water; which someone might consider to be a work.

But if it is, then it wouldn't have saved me.

Yet Romans 10:13 tells us otherwise.

Read the whole context. "calling on the Lord" is for believers. So, the verse is about believers being delivered (sozo) when they call on the Lord.

 

[peldom10]

Let's examine the ENTIRE verse, rather than your chopped up one.

and this water (literal water from v.20) symbolizes baptism that now saves you (obviously NOT water baptism, which is symbolic) also—not the removal of dirt from the body (refers to literal water) but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

So, Peter was clear. It is NOT literal water that saves, but literal water baptism symbolizes the baptism that does save.

Mark 1:8 - I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

The "baptism that saves" is the baptism with the Holy Spirit, NOT the baptism of water.

Verses of writings often contain separate and distinct points. My quote related to the subject...it was not chopped.

Stop trying to shoot the messenger and deal with God's word.

 

[peldom10]

Normal response will be

"We believe in new age religions teaching"

The fact that we believe and confess that Jesus died and rose again for the forgiveness of sins so that we are reconciled to the Father is irrelevant and does not save us.

The blood of Jesus shed for forgiveness and confession of faith obviously is not enough.

False teachers to the core indeed.

Very well put.

I refer to it as ...new age religion scoffing at God's word.

 

[peldom10]

False. You edited a cherry picked verse and implied it had meaning other than what scripture intended.


You need more than me to just copy and paste a verse but to take your error and false understandings to God and pray for Him to show you truth and deliver you from your man made doctrines.



John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Titus 3
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

False. You edited a cherry picked verse and implied it had meaning other than what scripture intended.


You need more than me to just copy and paste a verse but to take your error and false understandings to God and pray for Him to show you truth and deliver you from your man made doctrines.



John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Titus 3
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Your reference have NOTHING to do with baptism.

Try again.

 

[justbyfaith]

If they are all the "same Spirit", how can they be "distinct from one another?

The Father is a Spirit without flesh; while the Son is the same Spirit come in the flesh. The difference: one is in the flesh and the other isn't.

How is the Holy Ghost therefore distinct from the Father? He has lived a human life and therefore He experientially understands humanity; whereas the Father has not yet descended to become a Man; as He inhabits eternity,

Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

I disagree with your assessment. There are 3 distinct Personalities, all having the exact same characteristics.

While I agree that there are three distinct Peronalities / Persons, I think that if you disagree with my assesment, you may be unwittingly believing in Tritheism.

Water baptism is a ritual. Just as circumcision was. Neither will save anyone.

The Holy Ghost, which is salvation (Romans 8:9) is absolutely promised to those who receive baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38-39).

Read the whole context. "calling on the Lord" is for believers. So, the verse is about believers being delivered (sozo) when they call on the Lord.

If "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Romans 10:13) are they saved before they call on His name; since they shall be saved in doing so?

 

[Roar]

John 1:1-14
New King James Version

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[peldom10]

I also do not see what work I am performing when I submit to baptism. It is completely passive in its execution; the minister does everything.

Except that I called on the name of the Lord when I came up out of the water; which someone might consider to be a work.

But if it is, then it wouldn't have saved me.

Yet Romans 10:13 tells us otherwise.

Don't fall for the new age religion bologna.
Works are required as part of righteous living. The left wishes to turn works into a solely saving act...that is not true.
Be guided by scriptures...including works....example;....faith without works is dead.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi @peldom10,

Scripture for your contemplation:

Ephesians 2:8-9,

Romans 4:1-8,

Romans 11:5-6,

Titus 3:3-7.

 

[justbyfaith]

John 1:1-14
New King James Version

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Of course I do not deny that a person can receive the Holy Spirit by receiving Christ through prayer.

I am merely saying that if there is any doubt in your mind as to whether you actually have the Holy Ghost,

That being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins will remove all doubt.

 

[justbyfaith]

John 1:1-14
New King James Version

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Also, the Father inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15), outside of time; descended to become a Man, and then ascended to again exist outside of time (Ephesians 4:10).

Therefore, God exists beside Himself in eternity.

There are even two distinct Persons inhabiting eternity who are, in effect, the same Person (God).

For God does not always, in holy scripture, refer to Himself as "We".

 

[Roar]

Doubt is the enemy of FAITH.

Rather Have Faith! Dwell in God's word daily as it is life to the soul. As a wise bible proffesor once said doubts, bad thougths, ets are like birds flying over our heads. We can't stop them from flying over our heads but we can stop them from making nests in our hair.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The Father is a Spirit without flesh; while the Son is the same Spirit come in the flesh. The difference: one is in the flesh and the other isn't.

Well, this has Jesus talking and praying to Himself.

How is the Holy Ghost therefore distinct from the Father? He has lived a human life and therefore He experientially understands humanity; whereas the Father has not yet descended to become a Man; as He inhabits eternity,

"has not yet"????? God the Father will never take on humanity.

While I agree that there are three distinct Peronalities / Persons, I think that if you disagree with my assesment, you may be unwittingly believing in Tritheism.

What you believe isn't found in Scripture.

The Holy Ghost, which is salvation (Romans 8:9) is absolutely promised to those who receive baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38-39).

Those verses are applicable to those who had rejected Jesus as Messiah.

 

[justbyfaith]

Well, this has Jesus talking and praying to Himself.

God does in fact pray to God; any time we pray in the Holy Ghost.

"has not yet"????? God the Father will never take on humanity.

He already has, in the Person of Jesus Christ (Isaiah 9:6; John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

In order to deny that Isaiah 9:6 teaches this, you have to change that scripture, not once, but twice.

What you believe isn't found in Scripture.

I believe that it is found in holy scripture. And I have made my case in the thread in question.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/understanding-the-trinity-as-a-doctrine.201406/

 

[FreeGrace2]

God does in fact pray to God; any time we pray in the Holy Ghost.

No, that would be a mental problem. God does NOT talk to Himself.

He already has, in the Person of Jesus Christ (Isaiah 9:6; John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

Since you recognize the "Person of Jesus Christ", you are admitting separate Personalities.

In order to deny that Isaiah 9:6 teaches this, you have to change that scripture, not once, but twice.

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus made many references to HIS father.

I believe that it is found in holy scripture. And I have made my case in the thread in question.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/understanding-the-trinity-as-a-doctrine.201406/

Jesus didn't talk to Himself.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, that would be a mental problem. God does NOT talk to Himself.

The Holy Ghost isn't God?

Rom 8:26, Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27, And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

I would contend with you that He is in fact God (Acts 5:3-4).

 

[FreeGrace2]

The Holy Ghost isn't God?

Yes, a different entity in the trinity/P/QUOTE]

[QJOTE]Rom 8:26, Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27, And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

I would contend with you that He is in fact God (Acts 5:3-4).[/QUOTE]
All 3 members of the Trinity are God.

I showed from light that the 3 members of the Trinity are members of the Trinity, and have different.

Do you believe in the "Jesus only" movement?

 

[justbyfaith]

Are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same God in your opinion?

I have a background in the "Jesus only" Movement; but I also believe that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct (the Trinity).

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, a different entity in the trinity/P/QUOTE]

[QJOTE]Rom 8:26, Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27, And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

I would contend with you that He is in fact God (Acts 5:3-4).[~/QUOTE]
All 3 members of the Trinity are God.

I showed from light that the 3 members of the Trinity are members of the Trinity, and have different.

Do you believe in the "Jesus only" movement?

So, the original question was as to whether God prays to Himself.

The Father is the one God (James 2:19) and the Holy Ghost is the one God (James 2:19).

The Holy Ghost prays to the Father (Romans 8:26-27).

Therefore God prays to Himself.

 

[justbyfaith]

Even according to the Trinitarian creeds, God is one entity.