What are you thoughts on Annihilation?
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Jhn 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
So tell us....what exactly has been "finished" on the cross by Jesus. Finished dying by crucifixion in the flesh? Or finished suffering a limitless eternity of WRATH and PUNISHMENT poured out by a just God dispensing said justice upon Jesus? Is this the punishment that all of us deserve? A punishment that the Eternal God Jesus absorbed in a mere 3 hours?
Please render your invaluable opinion in this important matter....
BTW, wrath does not equal death....they are not equivalent terms as you believe. Death is merely ONE possible result of wrath. Wrath encompasses a potentially infinite degree and type of punishments. The 70 AD judgement, "wrath" and destruction of Jerusalem (Luke 21:23) certainly did NOT simply kill everyone. Luke 21:22 indicates that it is a time of "vengeance" G1557 ekdikēsis (a revenging, vengeance, punishment ).
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Please tell us...what exactly is this "wrath" that Jesus is speaking of. Do you say that is is an equivalent term for "death"?
Jhn 3:36
“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath (G3709) of God abides on him.”
Rom 9:22
What if God, wanting to show His wrath (G3709) and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath (G3709) prepared for destruction (G684),
As you can see.....WRATH and DESTRUCTION are mutually exclusive here in Rom 9:22.
Destruction (apōleia):
STRONGS NT 684: ἀπώλεια
ἀπώλεια, -ας, ἡ, (from ἀπόλλυμι, which see);
1. actively, a destroying, utter destruction: as, of vessels, Romans 9:22; τοῦ μύρου, waste, Mark 14:4 (in Matthew 26:8 without a genitive) (in Polybius 6, 59, 5 consumption, opposed to τήρησις); the putting of a man to death, Acts 25:16 Rec.; by metonymy, a destructive thing or opinion: in plural 2 Peter 2:2 Rec.; but the correct reading ἀσελγείαις was long ago adopted here.
2. passively, a perishing, ruin, destruction;
a. in general: τὸ ἀργύριόν σου σύν σοι εἴη εἰς ἀπ., let thy money perish with thee, Acts 8:20; βυθίζειν τινὰ εἰς ὄλεθρον κ. ἀπώλειαν, with the included idea of misery, 1 Timothy 6:9; αἱρέσεις ἀπωλείας destructive opinions, 2 Peter 2:1; ἐπάγειν ἑαυτοῖς ἀπώλειαν, ibid. cf. 2 Peter 2:3.
b. in particular, the destruction which consists in the loss of eternal life, eternal misery, perdition, the lot of those excluded from the kingdom of God: Revelation 17:8, 11, cf. Revelation 19:20; Philippians 3:19; 2 Peter 3:16; opposed to ἡ περιποίησις τῆς ψυχῆς, Hebrews 10:39; to ἡ ζωή, Matthew 7:13; to σωτηρία, Philippians 1:28. ὁ υἱὸς τῆς ἀπωλείας, a man doomed to eternal misery (a Hebraism, see υἱός, 2): 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (of Antichrist); John 17:12 (of Judas, the traitor); ἡμέρα κρίσεως κ. ἀπωλείας τῶν ἀσεβῶν, 2 Peter 3:7. (In secular authors from Polybius as above [but see Aristotle, probl. 17, 3, 2, vol. ii., p. 916a, 26; 29, 14, 10 ibid. 952b, 26; Nicom. eth. 4, 1 ibid. 1120a, 2, etc.]; often in the Sept. and O. T. Apocrypha.)
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
So tell us....what exactly has been "finished" on the cross by Jesus. Finished dying by crucifixion in the flesh? Or finished suffering a limitless eternity of WRATH and PUNISHMENT poured out by a just God dispensing said justice upon Jesus? Is this the punishment that all of us deserve? A punishment that the Eternal God Jesus absorbed in a mere 3 hours?
Please render your invaluable opinion in this important matter....
BTW, wrath does not equal death....they are not equivalent terms as you believe. Death is merely ONE possible result of wrath. Wrath encompasses a potentially infinite degree and type of punishments. The 70 AD judgement, "wrath" and destruction of Jerusalem (Luke 21:23) certainly did NOT simply kill everyone. Luke 21:22 indicates that it is a time of "vengeance" G1557 ekdikēsis (a revenging, vengeance, punishment ).
==========================================================================================================
Please tell us...what exactly is this "wrath" that Jesus is speaking of. Do you say that is is an equivalent term for "death"?
Jhn 3:36
“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath (G3709) of God abides on him.”
Rom 9:22
What if God, wanting to show His wrath (G3709) and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath (G3709) prepared for destruction (G684),
As you can see.....WRATH and DESTRUCTION are mutually exclusive here in Rom 9:22.
Destruction (apōleia):
STRONGS NT 684: ἀπώλεια
ἀπώλεια, -ας, ἡ, (from ἀπόλλυμι, which see);
1. actively, a destroying, utter destruction: as, of vessels, Romans 9:22; τοῦ μύρου, waste, Mark 14:4 (in Matthew 26:8 without a genitive) (in Polybius 6, 59, 5 consumption, opposed to τήρησις); the putting of a man to death, Acts 25:16 Rec.; by metonymy, a destructive thing or opinion: in plural 2 Peter 2:2 Rec.; but the correct reading ἀσελγείαις was long ago adopted here.
2. passively, a perishing, ruin, destruction;
a. in general: τὸ ἀργύριόν σου σύν σοι εἴη εἰς ἀπ., let thy money perish with thee, Acts 8:20; βυθίζειν τινὰ εἰς ὄλεθρον κ. ἀπώλειαν, with the included idea of misery, 1 Timothy 6:9; αἱρέσεις ἀπωλείας destructive opinions, 2 Peter 2:1; ἐπάγειν ἑαυτοῖς ἀπώλειαν, ibid. cf. 2 Peter 2:3.
b. in particular, the destruction which consists in the loss of eternal life, eternal misery, perdition, the lot of those excluded from the kingdom of God: Revelation 17:8, 11, cf. Revelation 19:20; Philippians 3:19; 2 Peter 3:16; opposed to ἡ περιποίησις τῆς ψυχῆς, Hebrews 10:39; to ἡ ζωή, Matthew 7:13; to σωτηρία, Philippians 1:28. ὁ υἱὸς τῆς ἀπωλείας, a man doomed to eternal misery (a Hebraism, see υἱός, 2): 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (of Antichrist); John 17:12 (of Judas, the traitor); ἡμέρα κρίσεως κ. ἀπωλείας τῶν ἀσεβῶν, 2 Peter 3:7. (In secular authors from Polybius as above [but see Aristotle, probl. 17, 3, 2, vol. ii., p. 916a, 26; 29, 14, 10 ibid. 952b, 26; Nicom. eth. 4, 1 ibid. 1120a, 2, etc.]; often in the Sept. and O. T. Apocrypha.)
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Thank you ewq, for all those scriptures.
We can see that some of them were what people wanted to happen to the wicked, and some were what God said - that he wold destroy them. The Hebrew word is ` shamad,` meaning to desolate - afflict, laid waste, destitute, comfortless, forlorn.
So we can see it is not annihilation.
We can see that some of them were what people wanted to happen to the wicked, and some were what God said - that he wold destroy them. The Hebrew word is ` shamad,` meaning to desolate - afflict, laid waste, destitute, comfortless, forlorn.
So we can see it is not annihilation.
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it is NOT a physical burning of a body that obviously will be consumed. The wicked do NOT get to have a BODY! They are only left with their soul/spirit that `burns` with their own terrible thoughts, and `burns` because they had to recognize that Jesus is Lord over all, (at the great White Throne). They had to bow the knee and confess that Jesus is Lord.
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You present some interesting points. Evidently similar trees will also be used for the healing of the nations in the millennium also.
As an aside, Adam describes and unfallen Eve as bone and flesh. Interestingly, the resurrected Jesus says that His resurrected glorious body is likewise "flesh and bones". We, in our fallen state, are flesh and BLOOD. One theory is that the life principle for the unfallen and glorified is not "blood" (the life is in the blood....for us). It is spiritually energized perhaps. I am not trying to create doctrine. Just an observation.
All of this is temporary is this prototype version of the Kingdom. The new heavens and new earth will not need any such things.
As an aside, Adam describes and unfallen Eve as bone and flesh. Interestingly, the resurrected Jesus says that His resurrected glorious body is likewise "flesh and bones". We, in our fallen state, are flesh and BLOOD. One theory is that the life principle for the unfallen and glorified is not "blood" (the life is in the blood....for us). It is spiritually energized perhaps. I am not trying to create doctrine. Just an observation.
All of this is temporary is this prototype version of the Kingdom. The new heavens and new earth will not need any such things.
You didn't get the definition correct so let me assist you:
Psa 145:20 The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.
H8045
שׁמד
shâmad
BDB Definition:
1) to destroy, exterminate, be destroyed, be exterminated
1a) (Niphal)
1a1) to be annihilated, be exterminated
1a2) to be destroyed, be devastated
1b) (Hiphil)
1b1) to annihilate, exterminate
1b2) to destroy
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2406
It is written in Hiphil tense so the correct meaning is, " to annihilate, exterminate, to destroy"
So we can see it IS annihilation.
Was it evil when God drowned everyone on Earth including children and burned Sodom alive including children, "making them an example"?
2 Peter 2:4-6 (NKJV)
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
2 Peter 2:4-6 (NKJV)
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
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Youre kidding me right? That is John speaking about Jesus— why would anyone mistake that for a parable?. And it is the most well known proof text for annihilation.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not PERISH, but have everlasting
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not PERISH, but have everlasting