What are you thoughts on Annihilation?
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I disagree, as I said.
--the "mouth" of Rev13:5-7,1 is a PERSON [/spokesperson, so to speak] PARALLEL TO the "mouth" [/person] spoken of in Daniel 7:20-24,8,11... where verse 20 even DESCRIBES this person: "whose look is more stout than his fellows" (that's a PERSON!... verses 8,11 calls him a "horn" and v.24 EXPLAINS that "horns" are "kings" and thus this "another horn" is "another" king, likewise)
--I agree with Duckybill (Post #757) who says the "prophet" is A PERSON (the "false prophet")
--the "mouth" of Rev13:5-7,1 is a PERSON [/spokesperson, so to speak] PARALLEL TO the "mouth" [/person] spoken of in Daniel 7:20-24,8,11... where verse 20 even DESCRIBES this person: "whose look is more stout than his fellows" (that's a PERSON!... verses 8,11 calls him a "horn" and v.24 EXPLAINS that "horns" are "kings" and thus this "another horn" is "another" king, likewise)
--I agree with Duckybill (Post #757) who says the "prophet" is A PERSON (the "false prophet")
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"to be reserved for judgment".....judgement and consequently PUNISHMENT and WRATH. Similarly, unredeemed humanity are in a spiritual prison, awaiting the GWT judgment. And both groups will then suffer the punishment due in proportion to their deeds.
Laura798 needs to understand: a career criminal who lives sumptuously, never being prosecuted, who then simply dies quietly in their sleep HAS BY NO MEANS paid the penalty for their sin. God's justice has yet to be served, and then the sentence. Degrees of punishment in the lake of fire. Furthermore, this criminal DID NOT satisfy the penalty for his own sin by merely by dying.
Matthew 23:15
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you traverse the sea and the dry land to make one convert, and whenever it may happen, you make him twofold more a son of Gehenna than yourselves.
Matt 23:33
Serpents! Offspring of vipers! How shall you escape from the sentence of Gehenna?
Strongs G1067
geenna: Gehenna, a valley W. and South of Jer., also a symbolic name for the final place of punishment of the ungodly
Original Word: γέεννα, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: geenna
Phonetic Spelling: (gheh'-en-nah)
Definition: Gehenna, a valley west and South of Jerusalem, also a symbolic name for the final place of punishment of the ungodly
Usage: Gehenna, and originally the name of a valley or cavity near Jerusalem, a place underneath the earth, a place of punishment for evil.
HELPS Word-studies
1067 géenna (a transliteration of the Hebrew term, Gêhinnōm, "the valley of Hinnom") – Gehenna, i.e. hell (also referred to as the "lake of fire" in Revelation).
Gehenna ("hell"), the place of post-resurrection torment (judgment), refers strictly to the everlasting abode of the unredeemed where they experience divine judgment in their individual resurrection-bodies. Each of the unredeemed receives one at the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev 20:11-15), i.e. a body that "matches" their capacity for torment relating to their (unique) judgment.
Laura798 needs to understand: a career criminal who lives sumptuously, never being prosecuted, who then simply dies quietly in their sleep HAS BY NO MEANS paid the penalty for their sin. God's justice has yet to be served, and then the sentence. Degrees of punishment in the lake of fire. Furthermore, this criminal DID NOT satisfy the penalty for his own sin by merely by dying.
Matthew 23:15
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you traverse the sea and the dry land to make one convert, and whenever it may happen, you make him twofold more a son of Gehenna than yourselves.
Matt 23:33
Serpents! Offspring of vipers! How shall you escape from the sentence of Gehenna?
Strongs G1067
geenna: Gehenna, a valley W. and South of Jer., also a symbolic name for the final place of punishment of the ungodly
Original Word: γέεννα, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: geenna
Phonetic Spelling: (gheh'-en-nah)
Definition: Gehenna, a valley west and South of Jerusalem, also a symbolic name for the final place of punishment of the ungodly
Usage: Gehenna, and originally the name of a valley or cavity near Jerusalem, a place underneath the earth, a place of punishment for evil.
HELPS Word-studies
1067 géenna (a transliteration of the Hebrew term, Gêhinnōm, "the valley of Hinnom") – Gehenna, i.e. hell (also referred to as the "lake of fire" in Revelation).
Gehenna ("hell"), the place of post-resurrection torment (judgment), refers strictly to the everlasting abode of the unredeemed where they experience divine judgment in their individual resurrection-bodies. Each of the unredeemed receives one at the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev 20:11-15), i.e. a body that "matches" their capacity for torment relating to their (unique) judgment.
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It`s probably HOW we say things, especially as we talk quickly back and forth.
However you may think some one is not doing such and such but that is your view. We can only graciously point out to each other and then leave it to the Holy Spirit to confirm or highlight the error as we are open to hearing Him.
all the best, Marilyn.
However you may think some one is not doing such and such but that is your view. We can only graciously point out to each other and then leave it to the Holy Spirit to confirm or highlight the error as we are open to hearing Him.
all the best, Marilyn.
No. He rendered them extinct, just like He will do at the Judgment.
The bible says the wicked will be DESTROYED and i believe it--this isn't rocket science. You all twist your words into pretzels to fit your pagan myth of eternal torment. As I said before, the Protestants got this false doctrine from the Roman Catholics who got it from the pagans
Scripture to test Scripture--the New Testament says DEATH is the punishment for sin. Eternal fire/punishment/destruction --all mean the same thing--the eternal bit means there is no coming back from it.' The Old Testament consistently says the wicked will be DESTROYED when using literal language--not talking about the worm dieth not and the fire...etc that is oft used....which is FIGURATIVE.
The two opposites Eternal Life vs Eternal Destruction
The bible says the wicked will be DESTROYED and i believe it--this isn't rocket science. You all twist your words into pretzels to fit your pagan myth of eternal torment. As I said before, the Protestants got this false doctrine from the Roman Catholics who got it from the pagans
Scripture to test Scripture--the New Testament says DEATH is the punishment for sin. Eternal fire/punishment/destruction --all mean the same thing--the eternal bit means there is no coming back from it.' The Old Testament consistently says the wicked will be DESTROYED when using literal language--not talking about the worm dieth not and the fire...etc that is oft used....which is FIGURATIVE.
The two opposites Eternal Life vs Eternal Destruction
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First? It's only definition Strong's provides. The BDB gives much more info. Using both, it's a form of desolation which is Annihilation. That is proof that bible is talking about Annihilation when it speaks of wicked being destroyed and being consumed into smoke.
Annihilation is proven by the bible and Hebrew language tools. Eternal torture is mentioned one single time and is applied to the Beast, FP and Devil only and is most likely a figure of speech because being burned by fire forever is well known to be used in non-literal forever situations.
Annihilation is proven by the bible and Hebrew language tools. Eternal torture is mentioned one single time and is applied to the Beast, FP and Devil only and is most likely a figure of speech because being burned by fire forever is well known to be used in non-literal forever situations.
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I personally think we have all have had a good airing of our views. To keep going, especially if it is just round and round, then we can wrongly move into `foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.` (2 Tim. 2: 23)
Whereas we need to be as God`s word says `a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth...` (2 Tim. 2: 25)
Whereas we need to be as God`s word says `a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth...` (2 Tim. 2: 25)
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The guilty by association argument is a strawman designed to use someone's links to another to assign the other's beliefs, misdeeds, and/or unattractive qualities to the person. Furthermore, it doesn't defeat the argument for annihilation. Annihilation has strong Biblical support and not just a few random verses that hint at it.
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I"m glad you shared that verse Marilyn. I agree and stand corrected. And could you please share that with your two cohorts, CV5 and Gardenias--apparently they never got that memo....
And I agree too, that we have moved into the 'foolish and ignorant disputes--it's become an argument amongst ourselves vs an argument in support of the gospel. For my part, I'm sorry. I think this forum has run it's course--probably a few 100 posts ago....
And I agree too, that we have moved into the 'foolish and ignorant disputes--it's become an argument amongst ourselves vs an argument in support of the gospel. For my part, I'm sorry. I think this forum has run it's course--probably a few 100 posts ago....
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