How many here believe the literal Word of God in the Bible
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Are you talking about ceasing from all sin In the Spirit or are you talking about ceasing from all sin In the flesh?
1 John 1:6-9
King James Version
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
+++
1 John 1:6-9
King James Version
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
+++
The pharisees believed that the gentiles were always sinning but Paul wrote,You do the same things the gentiles do,meaning just because the person show on the outside that they honor the law,on the Inside they are full of dead man bones.
JESUS taught In the sermon on the mount that adultery In the HEART Is wrong.
If a person thinks that they can not sin In the flesh thats deception because although the Spirit Is willing the flesh Is weak.
Paul wrote that he delighted In the law after the Inward man (talking about his brain/mind) but I see another law warring against the law of my mind and Bringing me Into captivity to the law of sin which Is In my flesh.
Sidenote:
Hebrews 12:21-24
King James Version
21 And so terrible was the sight, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
JESUS taught In the sermon on the mount that adultery In the HEART Is wrong.
If a person thinks that they can not sin In the flesh thats deception because although the Spirit Is willing the flesh Is weak.
Paul wrote that he delighted In the law after the Inward man (talking about his brain/mind) but I see another law warring against the law of my mind and Bringing me Into captivity to the law of sin which Is In my flesh.
Sidenote:
Hebrews 12:21-24
King James Version
21 And so terrible was the sight, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
The pharisees believed that the gentiles were always sinning but Paul wrote,You do the same things the gentiles do,meaning just because the person show on the outside that they honor the law,on the Inside they are full of dead man bones.
JESUS taught In the sermon on the mount that adultery In the HEART Is wrong.
If a person thinks that they can not sin In the flesh thats deception because although the Spirit Is willing the flesh Is weak.
Paul wrote that he delighted In the law after the Inward man (talking about his brain/mind) but I see another law warring against the law of my mind and Bringing me Into captivity to the law of sin which Is In my flesh.
Sidenote:
Hebrews 12:21-24
King James Version
21 And so terrible was the sight, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
JESUS taught In the sermon on the mount that adultery In the HEART Is wrong.
If a person thinks that they can not sin In the flesh thats deception because although the Spirit Is willing the flesh Is weak.
Paul wrote that he delighted In the law after the Inward man (talking about his brain/mind) but I see another law warring against the law of my mind and Bringing me Into captivity to the law of sin which Is In my flesh.
Sidenote:
Hebrews 12:21-24
King James Version
21 And so terrible was the sight, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
This applies to you and me and Paul and Jesus and the Pharisees and the Gentiles and Moses
and men and all that wrote anything that is in the bible. This applies to everyone.
Even if you do not believe it.
"One says I am of Paul, another Apollos, another of Cephas and yet another of Christ only. Can Christ be divided?" (I'm paraphrasing)
Denominations are just people following man's doctrine. Yeah, they say we follow the Bible only; but it's usually one man's or a few men's interpretation of the Bible. You have to obey men if you want to be a member of their church.
Denominations are just people following man's doctrine. Yeah, they say we follow the Bible only; but it's usually one man's or a few men's interpretation of the Bible. You have to obey men if you want to be a member of their church.
I mostly agree with your post.
To "curse" can probably be translated to "burden" or "binding" in most cases and retain its meaning. The "burden" of the OT law was replaced by the "burden" of Christ's law.
The law was never broken, it was fulfilled by Christ. The new covenant can actually require you to follow the old law if your conscience leads you to esteem it to be necessary, they just don't necessarily apply universally. The laws of Moses were given to the people of Israel at that time but that doesn't mean that the people of Israel were forever bound to observe that specific body of rules (the pursuit of righteousness is the real law, and each set of restrictions was intended to bring people into a state of righteousness. To be righteous is to fulfil the real law). Paul was a descendent of Israel and by the fulfilment of the law through Christ became free to follow righteousness through Christ without the OT edicts. He did nothing wrong by doing so and was very explicitly not a Gentile.
If someone doesn't have the benefit of knowing based on an established genealogy that they descend from Israel, the chances that each Christian has a physical bloodline is still very high. Everyone has two parents (2^1), four grandparents (2^2), eight greatparents (2^3), etc. If we look back 2000 years and estimate a generation length to be about 20 years, that equals about 2^100 or 1.3E30 (13 with 28 zeros after it) ancestors (note: some of these will be the same person counted multiple times). If there was any level of intermarriage between Jews and Gentiles such as with Timothy's parents, there is a very high chance that anyone with a familyline that has been Christian for a very long time will also be of Israel by physical geneology. If even 1 out of the 130,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ancestral positions was Jewish, you too are a physical descendant of Abraham, Israel, and Judah. Certain laws in some countries that might require "10% verifiable Jewish ancestry" aren't really looking to determine who is a physical descendant of Judah, they are merely filtering out those without a recent ancestor that followed the post-crucifixion Rabbinical order. And probably only for the sake of political loyalty.
If we are to say "OT law only applies to Israel" we are still left with the questions of "What do you mean by Israel?" And "Who decides on the definition of Israel if not by the presence of physical ancestry?"
An important aspect of "an eye for an eye" in scripture was the concept of equivalence in the OT. The worth of an eye was paid in many cases without physically and literally paying with one's own eye. When there was ambiguity or dispute, the ruling body that got to make the final call on what was an acceptable equivalency was the Levitical order which hasn't been around for 1000's of years at this point. It too just has a modern equivalency in some sects.
The NT gives the message of "Don't take your fellow to court" and "forgive tresspasses" etc. But at the same time also says to freely give your cloak and more when asked by your neighbour. The exchange of materials or resources to cover damages is still a thing, but the bottom line is to not make these claims at the expense of the brotherhood and loving nature between neighbours. One doesn't give up his cloak when requested because a procedural law says so, one gives up his cloak when requested because it is the loving and compassionate (righteous) thing to do. Jesus also doesn't say that an eye for an eye doesn't apply, he makes a distinction between permanent damage (e.g. losing an eye) and superficial damage or indignity (e.g. losing face). Turning the other cheek also plays in with scripture that speaks about being nice to those that curse you so that they may reflect and question their behaviour (And hopefully ultimately change their behaviour). In NT law one may still pursue compensation for an "eye" but within NT law it must only be paid with "good" equivalent and not an evil such as literally taking an eye. There is no contradiction.
To "curse" can probably be translated to "burden" or "binding" in most cases and retain its meaning. The "burden" of the OT law was replaced by the "burden" of Christ's law.
The law was never broken, it was fulfilled by Christ. The new covenant can actually require you to follow the old law if your conscience leads you to esteem it to be necessary, they just don't necessarily apply universally. The laws of Moses were given to the people of Israel at that time but that doesn't mean that the people of Israel were forever bound to observe that specific body of rules (the pursuit of righteousness is the real law, and each set of restrictions was intended to bring people into a state of righteousness. To be righteous is to fulfil the real law). Paul was a descendent of Israel and by the fulfilment of the law through Christ became free to follow righteousness through Christ without the OT edicts. He did nothing wrong by doing so and was very explicitly not a Gentile.
If someone doesn't have the benefit of knowing based on an established genealogy that they descend from Israel, the chances that each Christian has a physical bloodline is still very high. Everyone has two parents (2^1), four grandparents (2^2), eight greatparents (2^3), etc. If we look back 2000 years and estimate a generation length to be about 20 years, that equals about 2^100 or 1.3E30 (13 with 28 zeros after it) ancestors (note: some of these will be the same person counted multiple times). If there was any level of intermarriage between Jews and Gentiles such as with Timothy's parents, there is a very high chance that anyone with a familyline that has been Christian for a very long time will also be of Israel by physical geneology. If even 1 out of the 130,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ancestral positions was Jewish, you too are a physical descendant of Abraham, Israel, and Judah. Certain laws in some countries that might require "10% verifiable Jewish ancestry" aren't really looking to determine who is a physical descendant of Judah, they are merely filtering out those without a recent ancestor that followed the post-crucifixion Rabbinical order. And probably only for the sake of political loyalty.
If we are to say "OT law only applies to Israel" we are still left with the questions of "What do you mean by Israel?" And "Who decides on the definition of Israel if not by the presence of physical ancestry?"
An important aspect of "an eye for an eye" in scripture was the concept of equivalence in the OT. The worth of an eye was paid in many cases without physically and literally paying with one's own eye. When there was ambiguity or dispute, the ruling body that got to make the final call on what was an acceptable equivalency was the Levitical order which hasn't been around for 1000's of years at this point. It too just has a modern equivalency in some sects.
The NT gives the message of "Don't take your fellow to court" and "forgive tresspasses" etc. But at the same time also says to freely give your cloak and more when asked by your neighbour. The exchange of materials or resources to cover damages is still a thing, but the bottom line is to not make these claims at the expense of the brotherhood and loving nature between neighbours. One doesn't give up his cloak when requested because a procedural law says so, one gives up his cloak when requested because it is the loving and compassionate (righteous) thing to do. Jesus also doesn't say that an eye for an eye doesn't apply, he makes a distinction between permanent damage (e.g. losing an eye) and superficial damage or indignity (e.g. losing face). Turning the other cheek also plays in with scripture that speaks about being nice to those that curse you so that they may reflect and question their behaviour (And hopefully ultimately change their behaviour). In NT law one may still pursue compensation for an "eye" but within NT law it must only be paid with "good" equivalent and not an evil such as literally taking an eye. There is no contradiction.
That verse would have to be talking about a person Before salvation not after salvation.
Are you saying that since you got saved,you don’t sin anymore ,yes or no question?
Hebrews 12:21-24
King James Version
21 And so terrible was the sight, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
Are you saying that since you got saved,you don’t sin anymore ,yes or no question?
Hebrews 12:21-24
King James Version
21 And so terrible was the sight, [that] Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
Paul bemoaned that there were factions but then conceded that they were necessary in order for the truth to stand forth. It seems logical to me that if you join a Baptist church you must needs believe in baptism else how could you be united in testimony? if you joined the Pentecosts you presumably believe in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
Fact is everybody can find a home somewhere, a family, and it is God's will that we do. And if we find that things are not quite how we think they should be we should bear in mind that we ourselves are probably not the way God would have us to be.
... if all else fails there's the good old Sally.
Fact is everybody can find a home somewhere, a family, and it is God's will that we do. And if we find that things are not quite how we think they should be we should bear in mind that we ourselves are probably not the way God would have us to be.
... if all else fails there's the good old Sally.
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