What are you thoughts on Annihilation?

[Magenta]

From the beginning of the Bible, the Scriptures declare repeatedly that death is the penalty for sin. ​

​

The first time, in Genesis 2:17, God said to Adam as a consequence of his disobedience:​

​

"Thou shalt surely DIE."

​

There was no threatened eternal torment, but on the contrary Adam was told in Genesis 3:19 that​

​

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou RETURN UNTO THE GROUND:
for out of it wast thou taken: for DUST THOU ART AND UNTO DUST SHALT THOU RETURN."

​

Paul says in Romans 6:23, commenting upon the Adamic sentence:​

​

"The wages of sin is death."

And in Romans 5:17

"By one man’s offence death reigned."

​

Also Romans 6:21 ​

​

"The end of those things (the works of the flesh) is death."

Not eternal living torment, but DEATH.​

​

James affirms this in James 1:15~

"Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth DEATH"

​

The penalty of death and destruction is both just and merciful;​

the penalty of eternal torture is neither just nor merciful.​

​

Jesus said, "Broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.
"And narrow is the way that leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it."

​

Here again we note that in the Bible it is not eternal torment that is​

threatened but destruction, which is something very different.​

​

In Matthew 25:46, Jesus says the wicked "go into everlasting punishment," and what this everlasting punishment consists of is explained by Paul in 2 Thess. 1:7-9, where he says that when Jesus shall be revealed from heaven, the wicked shall be "punished with everlasting destruction." Paul tells us in Hebrews 10:27 what this everlasting punishment is:​

​

"Judgment and fiery indignation shall devour the adversary."

Quite unlike the burning bush which was NOT devoured by the flames which engulfed it.

​

Jesus says in Matthew 10:28 that God is able to~​

​

"DESTROY both soul and body in Gehenna."

Do you think Jesus gives idle warnings, that we should feat God for something He will never do?

​

Philippians 3:19, speaking of the unsaved~​

"Their end is destruction."

​

2 Peter 2:12, speaking of the unsaved~​

​

"These, as natural brute beasts . . . shall utterly perish in their own corruption."

​

Psalm 37:20 ​

​

"The wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the
fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

​

Malachi 4:1 ​

​

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."

​

Psalm 145:20 ​

​

"The Lord preserveth all them that love Him, but all the wicked will He destroy."

2 Peter 3:7

And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire,
being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Some translations use the word perdition, which means destruction, eternal ruin.

Not eternal torture at death, but complete burning destruction
in the day of judgment is the consistent Scriptural picture.

​

​

 

[Laura798]

Note too, that Gardenias gave that comment a HEART.

 

[Gardenias]

Note too, that Gardenias gave that comment a HEART.

Did you happen to read the end of his post?
He states he is not right with God and asked the one he was posting to for prayer and fasting on his behalf!

 

[Magenta]

Note too, that Gardenias gave that comment a HEART.

I have heard it said that there is no accounting for people's tastes...

Saying Jesus is the devil is ... quite wrong in many ways.

He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no
truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Contrast with Jesus saying, "I am the way, the Truth, and the life."

There is no congruency nor harmonizing those two statements.

 

[Laura798]

From the beginning of the Bible, the Scriptures declare repeatedly that death is the penalty for sin. ​

​

The first time, in Genesis 2:17, God said to Adam as a consequence of his disobedience:​

​

"Thou shalt surely DIE."

​

There was no threatened eternal torment, but on the contrary Adam was told in Genesis 3:19 that​

​

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou RETURN UNTO THE GROUND:
for out of it wast thou taken: for DUST THOU ART AND UNTO DUST SHALT THOU RETURN."

​

Paul says in Romans 6:23, commenting upon the Adamic sentence:​

​

"The wages of sin is death."

And in Romans 5:17

"By one man’s offence death reigned."

​

Also Romans 6:21 ​

​

"The end of those things (the works of the flesh) is death."

Not eternal living torment, but DEATH.​

​

James affirms this in James 1:15~

"Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth DEATH"

​

The penalty of death and destruction is both just and merciful;​

the penalty of eternal torture is neither just nor merciful.​

​

Jesus said, "Broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.
"And narrow is the way that leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it."

​

Here again we note that in the Bible it is not eternal torment that is​

threatened but destruction, which is something very different.​

​

In Matthew 25:46, Jesus says the wicked "go into everlasting punishment," and what this everlasting punishment consists of is explained by Paul in 2 Thess. 1:7-9, where he says that when Jesus shall be revealed from heaven, the wicked shall be "punished with everlasting destruction." Paul tells us in Hebrews 10:27 what this everlasting punishment is:​

​

"Judgment and fiery indignation shall devour the adversary."

Quite unlike the burning bush which was NOT devoured by the flames which engulfed it.

​

Jesus says in Matthew 10:28 that God is able to~​

​

"DESTROY both soul and body in Gehenna."

Do you think Jesus gives idle warnings, that we should feat God for something He will never do?

​

Philippians 3:19, speaking of the unsaved~​

"Their end is destruction."

​

2 Peter 2:12, speaking of the unsaved~​

​

"These, as natural brute beasts . . . shall utterly perish in their own corruption."

​

Psalm 37:20 ​

​

"The wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the
fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

​

Malachi 4:1 ​

​

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."

​

Psalm 145:20 ​

​

"The Lord preserveth all them that love Him, but all the wicked will He destroy."

2 Peter 3:7

And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire,
being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Some translations use the word perdition, which means destruction, eternal ruin.

Not eternal torture at death, but complete burning destruction
in the day of judgment is the consistent Scriptural picture.

​

​

Now we know who is speaking the truth and who is not in this forum. Magenta has given verse after verse--and these are in addition to all the other verses that have been posted--and yet there are those that give THE VERY WORDS OF GOD a RED X. And give hearts to someone saying Jesus is the DEVIL.

"44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."--John 8:44

The false doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment is by far the most diabolical doctrine to ever infiltrate the church as it attributes evil to God and it denies Christ paid the penalty of death in FULL at the cross.

 

[Gardenias]

Have you two checked out the WITCHES thread by any chance👻👽💀👺👹👾

 

[Magenta]

Have you two checked out the WITCHES thread by any chance👻👽💀👺👹👾

Do you see a man who is hasty in his words? There is more hope for a fool than for him.

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue
but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they
speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.

The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person
out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

 

[cv5]

If we take this literally, then the blackest darkness for a wandering star would be irrelevant since a star has it's own light source. That would make being in darkness irrelevant, hardly a punishment. Jude 1:12-13 is highly metaphorical and symbolic.

I suggest you do some studies into the valley of Hinnom outside of Jerusalem. The intent of the description of blackness and darkness.....is that there are no candles or torches there because there are absolutely no dwellings in the vicinity. Because of the stench because of the smoke because of the worms. The idiom is used again by Jesus when he speaks about being cast into outer darkness. No comfort of fellowship no home no dignity.

BTW.....recall that men and the devil and fallen angels are CAST (unceremoniously hurled or thrown) into Gehenna lake of fire. Thrown into it like refuse. All the terminology used is perfectly cogent consistent and coherent.

 

[cv5]

From the beginning of the Bible, the Scriptures declare repeatedly that death is the penalty for sin. ​

​

The first time, in Genesis 2:17, God said to Adam as a consequence of his disobedience:​

​

"Thou shalt surely DIE."

​

There was no threatened eternal torment, but on the contrary Adam was told in Genesis 3:19 that​

​

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou RETURN UNTO THE GROUND:
for out of it wast thou taken: for DUST THOU ART AND UNTO DUST SHALT THOU RETURN."

​

Paul says in Romans 6:23, commenting upon the Adamic sentence:​

​

"The wages of sin is death."

And in Romans 5:17

"By one man’s offence death reigned."

​

Also Romans 6:21 ​

​

"The end of those things (the works of the flesh) is death."

Not eternal living torment, but DEATH.​

​

James affirms this in James 1:15~

"Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth DEATH"

​

The penalty of death and destruction is both just and merciful;​

the penalty of eternal torture is neither just nor merciful.​

​

Jesus said, "Broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.
"And narrow is the way that leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it."

​

Here again we note that in the Bible it is not eternal torment that is​

threatened but destruction, which is something very different.​

​

In Matthew 25:46, Jesus says the wicked "go into everlasting punishment," and what this everlasting punishment consists of is explained by Paul in 2 Thess. 1:7-9, where he says that when Jesus shall be revealed from heaven, the wicked shall be "punished with everlasting destruction." Paul tells us in Hebrews 10:27 what this everlasting punishment is:​

​

"Judgment and fiery indignation shall devour the adversary."

Quite unlike the burning bush which was NOT devoured by the flames which engulfed it.

​

Jesus says in Matthew 10:28 that God is able to~​

​

"DESTROY both soul and body in Gehenna."

Do you think Jesus gives idle warnings, that we should feat God for something He will never do?

​

Philippians 3:19, speaking of the unsaved~​

"Their end is destruction."

​

2 Peter 2:12, speaking of the unsaved~​

​

"These, as natural brute beasts . . . shall utterly perish in their own corruption."

​

Psalm 37:20 ​

​

"The wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the
fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

​

Malachi 4:1 ​

​

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."

​

Psalm 145:20 ​

​

"The Lord preserveth all them that love Him, but all the wicked will He destroy."

2 Peter 3:7

And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire,
being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Some translations use the word perdition, which means destruction, eternal ruin.

Not eternal torture at death, but complete burning destruction
in the day of judgment is the consistent Scriptural picture.

​

​

I think you are refraining from using a lot of pertinent scriptures. Annihilationism is unbiblical and a heresy IMO. You have failed to comment on the recent posts that I made which clearly indicate an eternal punishment. Please render your opinion on them.

 

[ewq1938]

It is possible. Some people are have done worse things in this life than others. God judges unbelievers according to their works in this life. The most wicked are the false Christians: "Jude 1: 12 & 13… These men are hidden reefs in your love feasts, shamelessly feasting with you but shepherding only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried along by the wind; fruitless trees in autumn, twice dead after being uprooted. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

It makes no sense to reserve a place "forever" if those people are to be annihilated.

Blackest darkness is not a place. It's a condition. The verse uses the symbollogy of angels as stars and stars have bright light but these stars shall be black and dark forever. That's the language of a star being annihilated as it will never shine light again. Applying this language to angels, it would mean they would never be alive again and being dead and being in a God-created fire means they will be burned into nothingness which again supports annihilation rather than being tortured alive forever. The bible supports Annihilation over and over.

 

[ewq1938]

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


These DO NOT exist in NHNE:


1. death

2. sorrow

3. crying

4. pain


If eternal torment was true, then all those things would still exist. Eternal torment is a false doctrine which violates the truth of Rev 21:4.

 

[Laura798]

Have you two checked out the WITCHES thread by any chance👻👽💀👺👹👾

No, Gardenias--did you start that thread?

 

[rayzor]

Nope. The text states "FROM [G575 apo] the foundation of the world" (same time sin entered)... not "BEFORE [G4253 pro] the foundation of the world".

Yes, there is a difference. = ) I looked and it's not a translation issue at least not for 1 Peter 1:20 maybe you can tell me what scripture you are talking about?
Translations for 1Pe 1:20
KJV

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

NKJV
He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

NLT God chose him as your ransom long before the world began, but he has now revealed him to you in these last days.

 

[Laura798]

Did you happen to read the end of his post?
He states he is not right with God and asked the one he was posting to for prayer and fasting on his behalf!

Good lord, Gardenias! If someone had posted they just threw their child off a 5th floor balcony and then said "Pray for me" --would you give them a heart? If you are going to pray then take 2 seconds and type "I'll be praying". If you give it a heart obviously it looks like you are in agreement with what they said!

 

[Laura798]

Have you two checked out the WITCHES thread by any chance👻👽💀👺👹👾

And I'm sorry, if it is your thread Gardenias, I don't feel it is appropriate for a Christian forum. But on second thought..hmm? Does it have any good recipes? Say southern fried crickets or frog legs in a spicy broth? Any spells like '"Double double toil and trouble'? Those are always kinda fun.

 

[cv5]

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


These DO NOT exist in NHNE:


1. death

2. sorrow

3. crying

4. pain


If eternal torment was true, then all those things would still exist. Eternal torment is a false doctrine which violates the truth of Rev 21:4.

Oh...its real alright. Deny at your peril.

Matt 13:40-43
As the weeds are collected and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness. 42And they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Matt 5:22
But I say to you that everyone being angry with his brother will be liable to the judgment, and whoever shall say to his brother 'Raca,' will be liable to the Sanhedrin. But whoever shall say, 'Fool!' will be liable to the Gehenna of fire.

John 3:36 (John the Baptist speaking)
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

Matt 3:12 (John the Baptist speaking)
whose winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will clear His threshing floor and will gather His wheat into the barn; but He (the Lord Jesus) will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."


Strongs G1067 géenna (a transliteration of the Hebrew term, Gêhinnōm, "the valley of Hinnom") – Gehenna, i.e. hell (also referred to as the "lake of fire" in Revelation).

Gehenna ("hell"), the place of post-resurrection torment (judgment), refers strictly to the everlasting abode of the unredeemed where they experience divine judgment in their individual resurrection-bodies. Each of the unredeemed receives one at the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev 20:11-15), i.e. a body that "matches" their capacity for torment relating to their (unique) judgment

 

[ewq1938]

Oh...its real alright. Deny at your peril.

Deny Rev 21:4 at YOUR peril.

 

[ewq1938]

John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life ; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

"shall not see life" means will not be alive.



Universalism -all people (saved and unsaved) will see life in the New Heaven and new Earth for all eternity--FALSE DOCTRINE

Eternal torment -all unsaved people will see life in torment (lake of fire) for all eternity--FALSE DOCTRINE

Annihilationism - all unsaved people will not see life as Christ said.--TRUE DOCTRINE


Only Annihilation matches what Christ taught in John_3:36.


The first death is only death of the physical body. The second death is the death of body, soul and spirit. If one is saved, then the body, soul and spirit are preserved but the unsaved will not have theirs preserved because they will be dead and burned up which destroys them completely.


fate of the unsaved:


Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .


fate of the saved:


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ .



The Hebrew word for “fire” is esh. It is spelled with the Hebrew letters, aleph and sheen. Aleph means an ox and denotes strength. Sheen means teeth and denotes consuming or devouring. Thus, “fire” literally means a strong devourer. Hence, our God is a consuming fire (Deut. 4:24; Heb. 12:29).


The bible promotes Annihilationism. Eternal torment is a false doctrine which violates the truth of John 3:36.

 

[Laura798]

John_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life ; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

"shall not see life" means will not be alive.



Universalism -all people (saved and unsaved) will see life in the New Heaven and new Earth for all eternity--FALSE DOCTRINE

Eternal torment -all unsaved people will see life in torment (lake of fire) for all eternity--FALSE DOCTRINE

Annihilationism - all unsaved people will not see life as Christ said.--TRUE DOCTRINE


Only Annihilation matches what Christ taught in John_3:36.


The first death is only death of the physical body. The second death is the death of body, soul and spirit. If one is saved, then the body, soul and spirit are preserved but the unsaved will not have theirs preserved because they will be dead and burned up which destroys them completely.


fate of the unsaved:


Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .


fate of the saved:


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ .



The Hebrew word for “fire” is esh. It is spelled with the Hebrew letters, aleph and sheen. Aleph means an ox and denotes strength. Sheen means teeth and denotes consuming or devouring. Thus, “fire” literally means a strong devourer. Hence, our God is a consuming fire (Deut. 4:24; Heb. 12:29).


The bible promotes Annihilationism. Eternal torment is a false doctrine which violates the truth of John 3:36.

'Eternal Conscious Torment' running from swarm of Annihilation bible verses.

 

[cv5]

From the beginning of the Bible, the Scriptures declare repeatedly that death is the penalty for sin. ​

​

The first time, in Genesis 2:17, God said to Adam as a consequence of his disobedience:​

​

"Thou shalt surely DIE."

​

There was no threatened eternal torment, but on the contrary Adam was told in Genesis 3:19 that​

​

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou RETURN UNTO THE GROUND:
for out of it wast thou taken: for DUST THOU ART AND UNTO DUST SHALT THOU RETURN."

​

Paul says in Romans 6:23, commenting upon the Adamic sentence:​

​

"The wages of sin is death."

And in Romans 5:17

"By one man’s offence death reigned."

​

Also Romans 6:21 ​

​

"The end of those things (the works of the flesh) is death."

Not eternal living torment, but DEATH.​

​

James affirms this in James 1:15~

"Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth DEATH"

​

The penalty of death and destruction is both just and merciful;​

the penalty of eternal torture is neither just nor merciful.​

​

Jesus said, "Broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.
"And narrow is the way that leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it."

​

Here again we note that in the Bible it is not eternal torment that is​

threatened but destruction, which is something very different.​

​

In Matthew 25:46, Jesus says the wicked "go into everlasting punishment," and what this everlasting punishment consists of is explained by Paul in 2 Thess. 1:7-9, where he says that when Jesus shall be revealed from heaven, the wicked shall be "punished with everlasting destruction." Paul tells us in Hebrews 10:27 what this everlasting punishment is:​

​

"Judgment and fiery indignation shall devour the adversary."

Quite unlike the burning bush which was NOT devoured by the flames which engulfed it.

​

Jesus says in Matthew 10:28 that God is able to~​

​

"DESTROY both soul and body in Gehenna."

Do you think Jesus gives idle warnings, that we should feat God for something He will never do?

​

Philippians 3:19, speaking of the unsaved~​

"Their end is destruction."

​

2 Peter 2:12, speaking of the unsaved~​

​

"These, as natural brute beasts . . . shall utterly perish in their own corruption."

​

Psalm 37:20 ​

​

"The wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the
fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

​

Malachi 4:1 ​

​

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."

​

Psalm 145:20 ​

​

"The Lord preserveth all them that love Him, but all the wicked will He destroy."

2 Peter 3:7

And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire,
being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Some translations use the word perdition, which means destruction, eternal ruin.

Not eternal torture at death, but complete burning destruction
in the day of judgment is the consistent Scriptural picture.

​

​

Nope. Eternal punishment is the correct doctrine.

Heb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?


Mat 25:46
“And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


Luke 16:24
And having cried out, he said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus, that he might dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am suffering in this flame.'

Matt 5:22
But I say to you that everyone being angry with his brother will be liable to the judgment, and whoever shall say to his brother 'Raca,' will be liable to the Sanhedrin. But whoever shall say, 'Fool!' will be liable to the Gehenna of fire.


Matt 13:40-43
As the weeds are collected and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness. 42And they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.


Matt 18:8-9
Now if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; it is better for you to enter into life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and cast it from you; it is better for you to enter into life one-eyed, than having two eyes to be cast into the Gehenna of fire.