Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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, would you mind telling me where it said we never had it and its context. I want to know. I will be grateful. I might have some question later again. + Gods love is unconditional that I agree, It is free. But I think we can reject the unconditional.free gift. or else we have no freedom.
And antichrist in context is one who deny's christ. (vs 22)
If you hand Jesus back the gift. you are in effect denying him. And are against him.
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Exactly, Antichrist use Christ name but they do not get salvation because they do not receive Jesus. But those who receive Jesus they can not give back the gift to God, but they can throw it away. Antichrist rebel knowingly, but many people act like antichrist unknowingly, there are a big difference. John does not say for those who do things unknowingly, cause when they know the truth they repent.
Exactly, I agree with you. There are many people who believe God and Jesus but without fear of the lord. God gave us everything that we need, God gives his love also. That doesn't mean that we all understand his love and act as he wants. Those who are matured in believe they act like it more, there are those who are not matured yet even though they believe. So In that verse God is telling for those who are matured enough. Why do we think everybody is matured to not to throw the Gift or to obey God fully? Those who are matured should be the example. I am willing to confess that I am not matured enough to understand, But I am trying.
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no they can not throw it away
They were part of the church. They left after having claimed to believe in Christ, they now claim they do not believe in Christ.
They were of us. Means they were active with us. They were not antichrist at that time. They in effect as you claim threw away their belief
They did not have true saving faith. And were not saved, that’s WHY they walked away.
No one who is truly born again throws away their salvation.
They were part of the church. They left after having claimed to believe in Christ, they now claim they do not believe in Christ.
They were of us. Means they were active with us. They were not antichrist at that time. They in effect as you claim threw away their belief
They did not have true saving faith. And were not saved, that’s WHY they walked away.
No one who is truly born again throws away their salvation.
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I agree with you that they can not throw it away. they can not throw it away cause they didn't have it. But those people can throw it who have it. many people don't recognize salvation even though they have it. If you have salvation but you do not want to live with god, God will not put pressure on you to live with him.
+ When you say about true saving faith what do you mean? What is true saving faith? Justification, sanctification or glorification? As long as we are justified in Jesus we are saved. But we are not yet totally sanctified. as long as we are not sanctified totally, we will not fully in fear of God cause until than we are not matured in faith.
** What do you mean by "No one who is truly born again throws away their salvation."? They can not throw away or they will not? Is it biblical or theological comment?
+ Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. It means they are condemnable, But there will be no condemnation from God because of Jesus Christ. But if they throw it away, they will be condemned for later sin(bad thinking is also not godly standard, so they will fall for sure without Jesus).
+ When you say about true saving faith what do you mean? What is true saving faith? Justification, sanctification or glorification? As long as we are justified in Jesus we are saved. But we are not yet totally sanctified. as long as we are not sanctified totally, we will not fully in fear of God cause until than we are not matured in faith.
** What do you mean by "No one who is truly born again throws away their salvation."? They can not throw away or they will not? Is it biblical or theological comment?
+ Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. It means they are condemnable, But there will be no condemnation from God because of Jesus Christ. But if they throw it away, they will be condemned for later sin(bad thinking is also not godly standard, so they will fall for sure without Jesus).
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We are justified by faith. True saving faith
not everyone who claims to have faith is saved. Many walk with the church for years but realize they really do
Not feel God they see no evidence that they were ever saved. While they are blessed by association with Gods people they have not personally experienced Gods love because they were never born again
it is these people who end up walking away as anything Christ’s not because they stop having faith but because they never had saving faith and never experience personally gods love.
not everyone who claims to have faith is saved. Many walk with the church for years but realize they really do
Not feel God they see no evidence that they were ever saved. While they are blessed by association with Gods people they have not personally experienced Gods love because they were never born again
it is these people who end up walking away as anything Christ’s not because they stop having faith but because they never had saving faith and never experience personally gods love.
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Feeling can be false, realization can be false. We can not depend on our emotion or feeling or even in experience if it is not collaborate with the word of God. My real question is what do you mean by true saving faith. Cause even 12 disciples had faith in Jesus but Peter denied him, Thomas wanted proof because of doubt, Jonah had faith in God but did not wanted to obey, Abraham had faith in God but tried with Hagar and many more(like Gideon, Samson ... ) So what is the true saving faith? Is it the faith that transform as gradually(there will be fault in us and it is called justification from which we will sanctified gradually so even we have this kind of faith we might deny God or Jesus) or the faith that make ourselves totally transformed and we do not reject Jesus anymore. What is the saving faith?
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Precious friend, Totally Unscriptural. Please go by All Scriptures; All those
"Jesus Has NEVER Known, Do NOT belong to Him!!" (Matthew 7:21-23)
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
"All those JESUS Has ALWAYS Known, BELONG To Him!" The "SEAL Of The
SURE Foundation!!!" (2 Timothy 2:19 cp 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:4).
That And Another 12 DOZEN "Plain And Clear Scriptures" Are WHY "God
Calls It ETERNAL Life," and NOT man's idea of some TEMPORARY life!
Again: Please ALWAYS go By ALL Of God's Profitable Scriptures!:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's FREE Gift of {temporary?} ETERNAL Life!
(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today?)
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God’s Simple Will!
"Jesus Has NEVER Known, Do NOT belong to Him!!" (Matthew 7:21-23)
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
"All those JESUS Has ALWAYS Known, BELONG To Him!" The "SEAL Of The
SURE Foundation!!!" (2 Timothy 2:19 cp 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:4).
That And Another 12 DOZEN "Plain And Clear Scriptures" Are WHY "God
Calls It ETERNAL Life," and NOT man's idea of some TEMPORARY life!
Again: Please ALWAYS go By ALL Of God's Profitable Scriptures!:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's FREE Gift of {temporary?} ETERNAL Life!
(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans – Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today?)
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God’s Simple Will!
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5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
listening to, walking in, learning from the Spirit leads to the hope... along with:
cleaning the body - mind/body out leads out of the darkness of unknowing.
we must not forget the temple (of God) because it is where we live.
we must not forget the mind because it is part of the temple (of God).
we can have hope mixed with unknowing. a faith that rests on reading verses and listening to doctrines...
diligently seeking Him -- we will find out more and more... and things will start to come to pass in our lives.
the end is not yet... but we will really believe more and more... and come into much understanding.
which most other people would not believe us if it was told to them. but the Kingdom is not "here... or there" (Luke 17:21).
Thank You for responding.
I believe as the scripture says, that God is kind to the living and the dead, meaning that everyone gets the chance to be saved, even at death. As I have heard some people say, “Repent of your sins and be saved,” as the scriptures say, “anyone who believes in/on His Name will be saved.
Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the Name of the LORD shall be saved.
I believe as the scripture says, that God is kind to the living and the dead, meaning that everyone gets the chance to be saved, even at death. As I have heard some people say, “Repent of your sins and be saved,” as the scriptures say, “anyone who believes in/on His Name will be saved.
Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the Name of the LORD shall be saved.
Exactly, In in the same way many humble people may say they did not have the saving faith but they are saved by Jesus. So actually I Can not say who gets the saving faith and who don't, Only god knows. + We are claiming that we have saving faith, that might be a problem. What do you think?
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Matthew 7:21-23)- is for the people who use Jesus name in vain. Not for the people who are real believer.
(2 Timothy 2:15), 2 Timothy 2:19 is for the people who already know the scripture especially Timothy and like minded people.
1 Corinthians 6:19; is for the people who were bad really bad after they have received Jesus they are still doing bad.
Ephesians 1:4- I forgot the context of Ephesian church so I can not tell you that now, sorry.
On the light of context- Now Please explain. You can be scriptural in wrong way. I dont want to do that. + you can see the prize/reward and gift in Greek. they are different in word. obviously gift is free and can be thrown away, God use reality. We are so spiritual that we want to exclude reality sometime.
(2 Timothy 2:15), 2 Timothy 2:19 is for the people who already know the scripture especially Timothy and like minded people.
1 Corinthians 6:19; is for the people who were bad really bad after they have received Jesus they are still doing bad.
Ephesians 1:4- I forgot the context of Ephesian church so I can not tell you that now, sorry.
On the light of context- Now Please explain. You can be scriptural in wrong way. I dont want to do that. + you can see the prize/reward and gift in Greek. they are different in word. obviously gift is free and can be thrown away, God use reality. We are so spiritual that we want to exclude reality sometime.
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Exactly, In in the same way many humble people may say they did not have the saving faith but they are saved by Jesus. So actually I Can not say who gets the saving faith and who don't, Only god knows. + We are claiming that we have saving faith, that might be a problem. What do you think?
Your right. Only God knows who is saved and who is not
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Brother, I think there is some misunderstanding between us. I never said eternal life can be lost. I just said that it can be thrown away, that means it can be taken back again(but the problem is repent will be harder). eternal life is never lost just thrown away. cause if we can not choose to stay with God or not to stay with God there is no free will. and if there is no free will, How can we be the image of God? we will be like Robots.
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If I can throw eternal life away it can be lost.
It becomes conditional life. Because it is based on the fact of me wanting to keep it and not give it back.
See I disagree with you. There is free will
Anyone who ever has truly experienced Gods love will never freely give it back. We lose faith in people who fail us. God never fails us. We may think an this area or that area God failed us, But this is not true. and he has proven trustworthy in so many areas that we would never lose complete faith in him.
people go back to what they really have faith in.
A person who really trusted the law may try christianity for a while, But their faith is in the law. And they will go back.
People who truly has faith in the world may try christianity for a while. But like a dog returns to his vomit, so will they return to what they truly believe.
That is why John said if they were truly of us they never would have left. they left to expose the fact they were never truly of us.
It becomes conditional life. Because it is based on the fact of me wanting to keep it and not give it back.
See I disagree with you. There is free will
Anyone who ever has truly experienced Gods love will never freely give it back. We lose faith in people who fail us. God never fails us. We may think an this area or that area God failed us, But this is not true. and he has proven trustworthy in so many areas that we would never lose complete faith in him.
people go back to what they really have faith in.
A person who really trusted the law may try christianity for a while, But their faith is in the law. And they will go back.
People who truly has faith in the world may try christianity for a while. But like a dog returns to his vomit, so will they return to what they truly believe.
That is why John said if they were truly of us they never would have left. they left to expose the fact they were never truly of us.
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1 john 2:19- 19They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us. I agree with you that In here John really telling about those people who never believed Jesus. That I totally agree.
But I think you are assuming only 2 types of people not other sub type of people within them. you are thinking about Those who believe and those who don't. But you are not thinking about those people who actually believe but are not matured, So whenever any difficulties come or whenever difficult questions come they lose their faith because of lack of good guidance. people believe, they want to believe- But many lose their faith cause our Christian leaders and we do not care about them or do not answer them to mature or grow them. Only those people will not throw their faith who are mature enough. You are vouching for them only not for immature. there are those we never have faith but with us, there are people who have faith but immature so need guidance to keep their faith and to be mature, there are people whos faith are matured so they will never throw away their faith. I can not say to anymore. I can state more type of people, God is f=gracious to them, but we are not. that's our problem not Gods.
But I think you are assuming only 2 types of people not other sub type of people within them. you are thinking about Those who believe and those who don't. But you are not thinking about those people who actually believe but are not matured, So whenever any difficulties come or whenever difficult questions come they lose their faith because of lack of good guidance. people believe, they want to believe- But many lose their faith cause our Christian leaders and we do not care about them or do not answer them to mature or grow them. Only those people will not throw their faith who are mature enough. You are vouching for them only not for immature. there are those we never have faith but with us, there are people who have faith but immature so need guidance to keep their faith and to be mature, there are people whos faith are matured so they will never throw away their faith. I can not say to anymore. I can state more type of people, God is f=gracious to them, but we are not. that's our problem not Gods.