Mental illness and high blood pressure can and do run in families, you can take care of your body all you want but some still have issues. Yes sometimes outside forces are involved, but that doesn't mean the outside force is demons..
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T
tif
Guest
I am 100%, completely, totally in agreement that God can (and does) work miracles in people's lives, including healing mental illness. I am living proof of His power in that regard.
However, I would never want someone to misinterpret that to mean mental illness is spiritually caused. I would never want someone not to get vital treatment for a serious and dangerous condition just because a person on a forum said it's all caused by demons.
I'm sorry if I came off a bit heavy-handed. I work in the mental health field, and I and others like me constantly battle notions like these. Unless you've seen it, you guys really can't understand the devastation of seeing someone go from lucidity to completely delusional, babbling, frightened and out of control, just because someone convinced him to go off his meds.
However, I would never want someone to misinterpret that to mean mental illness is spiritually caused. I would never want someone not to get vital treatment for a serious and dangerous condition just because a person on a forum said it's all caused by demons.
I'm sorry if I came off a bit heavy-handed. I work in the mental health field, and I and others like me constantly battle notions like these. Unless you've seen it, you guys really can't understand the devastation of seeing someone go from lucidity to completely delusional, babbling, frightened and out of control, just because someone convinced him to go off his meds.
T
tif
Guest
I think this is the point in the conversation that speaking to one another will not accomplish anything.
Vahn it is nice that you have put your trust in the Lord. If the Lord tells you to go see a doctor, I hope you listen. If He says just trust in Him, that is good as well. If any voices tell you to kill yourself or do something unbiblical. Say " the Lord rebuke you" and quote some scripture. IF that doesn't work get some help either from a pastor or a doctor. Some days I'm in over my head and I don't think it is a bad thing to ask for help.
Tif, I get what your talking about, but I don't think Vahn wants to hear it. Demons exist but most of the time what we have to deal with is not the demons but the damage they cause. They are like the guns in your gunshot analogy. They cause the wound but saying over and over again that you have a gunshoot wound will not help the person from bleeding to death. But you have to remember some people will faint at the sight of blood or even the thought of it, so we have to have compassion and allow them to work in a field that God has trained and taught them how to deal with so that all may Glorify the Lord.
Hope everyone has a blessed day.
Ananda: I was never really posting to vahn; I was posting to refute the claims he made, so no one who reads this will believe that, according to the bible, mental illnesses are caused by demons.
I don't really give a hill of beans what any person believes about this personally, as long as it doesn't harm another person.
M
MaggieMye
Guest
I was asked by another group member to address posts by TIF. I will not reveal who asked me to do this. I normally to not come to this board: These are her posts on page 1 of this thread:
Post #8
I work in mental health, and I carry a diagnosis of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder myself.
And I can say one thing for certain: GOD CAN HEAL ANYTHING, BUT JUST BECAUSE THERE IS A SPIRITUAL CURE DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A SPIRITUAL PROBLEM. That does not even make sense. ALL of man's maladies are spiritual. But here is the key: IF a medical problem (remembering that a curse does not fall without a cause Prov 26:2) CAN be cured by medication...such as strepp throat, poison ivy, abdominal gas, or any bacterial infection that responds to antibiotics, one can say that it is CAUSED by natural occurances....coming into contact with someone that has the bacteria, a poisonous plant, eating poorly, etc. While these conditions are not demonic, per se, scripture tells us that NO curse...no bad thing can happen to a person UNLESS there is a REASON. The devil is an opportunist and will take every open door he sees to bring sickness and DIS-EASE to the human body. So while it can be treated and ELIMINATED COMPLETELY with the medication, the reason it was ALLOWED to happen is SPIRITUAL. // Now...when a human malady, such as cancer, tuberculosis, diabetes, or any other condition that can be TREATED BUT NOT CURED by medciations, comes to a person, it is because of one of two spiritual reasons: 1~ there is a generational curse of iniquity in the person's familial blood line. (Ex 20:5 is a spiritual LAW and eternal); or 2~ there is unrepented sin, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy, or FEAR that needs to be confessed and repented of. Every one of these things opens the door of the person's soul to the kingdom of darkness and gives LEGAL access to the demonic. Remember that it is their GOAL to Kill, Steal and Destroy!!
That is not to say that there is no spiritual realm or spiritual forces at work in our lives. But I've known women who are dedicated to God and still experience all the symptoms of their diagnoses. This is true! But the question is WHY? The answer is Hos 4:6. Lack of KNOWLEDGE of the spiritual realm and its dynamics and the principles of God's words is the number one reason why people suffer. If the Church had not ceased their teachings on these matters, back in the year 200, humanity would not have suffered as it did and would not suffer as it Does. People today are no longer taught about the truth of generational iniquity, about curses, word curses spoken over our lives by other people...and by ourselves!! They are no longer taught that SIN causes sickness. Everytime Jesus healed in the Bible, He told the person to 'sin no more'. One of these women, I'll call hey Kay, lived 50 years of her life before getting a diagnosis of bipolar. She tried prayer and bible study, she tried church, she tried getting others to pray for her healing, she tried therapy, she tried EVERYTHING. She was dedicated to God, and still is. And, about six or seven years ago, Kay finally (under the urging of the psychologist/psychiatrist who had been counseling her for years) tried medication. She swears that was the last piece of the puzzle, and now lives a happy, fulfilled, God-filled life. Psychiatry/ psychology and pharmacy all come from the same Greek root word as WITCHCRAFT. Being BOUND to pharmaceuticals is NOT a "God-filled life"! It is living a life of bondage to something that God never intended. Note that this does NOT negate the love of the person toward Christ. But it DOES negate the FREEDOM for which He died to give!
I was on medication for a long time, but am not now. And that isn't a choice I would recommend for anyone unless they are working with their doctor/therapist/support team. It was VERY difficult. All things ARE possible with God!! It was Never, never, NEVER His desire that you be on meds. Far too often people go to the Dr. BEFORE they go to the FATHER!! That is IDOLATRY.
Medication doesn't mean you don't believe in God or trust Him. True! That would be a stupid assumption. There have been brain scans that show the shape of the human brain CHANGES when a person has schizophrenia. Yeah, demons have the ability to influence our thinking. Science has proven that CONTINUOUS deviant behavior and thinking can change the physiology of the human body; it changes genes in those practicing homosexuality; it damages genes in those that walk in constant unforgiveness and bitterness. You wouldn't refuse chemotherapy if you had cancer, would you? Absolutely! Chemotherapy KILLS cancer, but it also kills all of the good cells and the person eventually dies an early (before 70) death. Or insulin for diabetes? Type two can be gotten rid of through treating the temple of the Holy Spirit (us) AS HOLY and feeding it GOOD nutrition instead of the junk food that created the condition.
Pray. Read God's word. See a doctor. STUDY God's word and go to HIM FIRST, USING the AUTHORITY THAT HE HAS GIVEN YOU TO OVERCOME SICKNESS, DISEASE AND DEATH.. And don't let people who have never traveled this road tell you it's all demonic if you know it isn't. I WAS diabetic. My son WAS schizophrenic. So I CAN tell you that it is demonic...plus I've studied these things intensely, learning about deliverance and spiritual warfare and healing. But again...the church NO LONGER (cuz they did in the early years) teaches these truths.
Post #11
Do you think that God has specifically caused every case of cancer, leprosy, lameness, blindness, illness and disability that He has healed, while here on the earth as Jesus Christ or through His followers? Actually GOD has caused NONE OF THEM!! It is NOT GOD that comes to kill, steal, and destroy, but our adversary who goes about like a lion, looking for someone to devour! It is no contradiction. God can reach out and heal someone, but that doesn't mean He (or the spiritual realm) is the root of all the things He has healed. Do you realize how moronic that sounds?? GOD IS SPIRITUAL. Everything He does is SPIRITUAL. He can and does heal people all the time. The ROOT of all infirmity and iniquity is SIN. Like it or not, be offended or not, SIN is what separates us from the One who heals, the One who made man perfect to begin with. Adam never knew death UNTIL he sinned. God told him he would die if he disobey. And he died. Otherwise, why didn't He cast demons out of the blind, the lame, the woman with the bleeding disorder? As I recall He did. Jesus HEALED the eyes of the man that was born blind SO that the glory of God could be revealed and displayed to the Israelites of that day; Jesus did heal a woman that was not even a Jew...so that the Gentiles would understand that they, too could be cleansed of their unrighteousness and be healed. Prior to meeting Jesus, the woman at the well did not KNOW God. She knew OF God. But when she HEARD of Jesus, she believed. Hence, Jesus' words, "Your FAITH has made you well". Faith comes by hearing.
You have cancer. You see an oncologist who diagnoses you and starts chemotherapy. The chemo doesn't work. So, you see a surgeon who's going to remove the affected tissue. He is also going to put a radioactive pellet in a part of the tumor he can't extract. Using poison to eradicate poison simply does not work.
Two years later, you're alive and in remission. Remission simply means it is not spreading. It is not CURED, as in GONE forever. So, what caused the cancer? Since cancer is NOT a transmittable malady, we can safely say it was not 'caught' from another person. According to Prov 26:2, no bad thing can come to a child of God WITHOUT JUST CAUSE. There has to be a REASON for infirmity to be able to manifest in a person's body...or mind. So, the CAUSE of the cancer is SIN...in the form of unforgivness or fear..those being the two Main reasons for this spiritual condition. Cancer KILLS. WHO kills? The devil kills. GOD never kills. Was it the oncologist or the surgeon? The chemo? The surgery or the pellet? I mean, those were all medical cures for the disease, right? WRONG!!! NOT ONE OF THEM WAS a CURE...as in "all gone and never have to deal with it ever again and you life to 70 or 80). If any of them had been a CURE, then there would not have been the NEED for any of the others. And every person with cancer would immediately get that ONE treatment that CURED. But that is not the case. So, if it's a medical problem, should there definitely be a medical cause? This kind of question comes from someone that is ignorant...lacking knowledge about how the spiritual realm WORKS...Hos 4:6 What if it was asbestos? What about it? Did the person wear the proper protective gear or were they foolish, defying wisdom? To disobey the safety mandates set down for working with this substance is 1~foolish, 2~ disobedience and therefore 3~sin. Or too much sun? same here Or what if you had a cancer from birth? How about diabetes? GENERATIONAL. Consider: Every time you go to a Dr. they ask "What conditions do/did your parents have? Your Grandparents? Your Great-grandparents? Even though the medical community does not use the phrase "generational curse" as found in the Bible, they still understand the reality of them!
Post #15
There is NO non-spiritual cure for a spiritual problem. True. There can be, however, a spiritual cure for a non-spiritual problem. EVERYTHING IS SPIRITUAL. We either walk in the freedom Christ died to give or we don't. We either are the overcomers He created us to be, or we are not. EVERY WORD in the Bible is a Spiritual word BECAUSE it was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Every tangible thing on the planet was created SUPERNATUALLY BY the SPIRIT of GOD, for GOD IS SPIRIT. Our spiritual abilities and awareness has been so dummied-down by Satan and his cohorts that few have even heard of this...and even fewer understand it.
It's a simple issue. God is the greatest Healer ever known, and He can heal all things, regardless of cause. True Man's healers are limited by their finite power and ability. They can heal some physical/psychological things, some of the time. No. Medications for any condition that is not completely CURED by it is only a bandaid...it covers the symptoms for the time the meds are taken. The meds FORCE the body to do what it should be able to do on its own. And when the meds are stopped, the DIS-EASE returns, usually with even greater determination to kill the body than before. "DIS-EASE" meaning that the Body or mind of a person is ILL-AT-EASE; DIS- EASE it to be UN at ease. "Uneasy" and Dis-ease mean the same thing and NEITHER are conditions that dictate a person RESTING in God. It therefore stands to reason that God can heal things of both a spiritual nature AND a physical or psychological nature. Yes. Jesus CAST OUT DEMONS and the people were healed.
Plus, the entire "illnesses are only caused by demonic forces/your unfaith/a deficit in character/etc" thing is very harmful to people. Truth is only harmful if they have so much pride as to walk away from what can truly cure them. EGO is a very vulnerable thing and it does not like being told that it has a spiritual condition that can be dealt with, with the provisions as simple as the ones that Christ gave us. It is pride and not the humility that we are told to emanate. It is really no different than the person that needs glasses because of advanced age, but refuses because they don't want to look old. Their PRIDE will cause them to fall and maybe even get hurt or die. Pride goes before destruction. We are our own worst enemies when we refuse to consider that ALL is spiritual and that we, Christ within us, have access to ALL that we need to live lives of great health and stamina. Christ did not come that we should remain sick!!! Stigma is a MAJOR problem with those who carry mental health diagnoses, and a major reason people don't seek the help that can save their lives. True. Demons work overtime, keeping people mentally ill. Why? So they never step into the destiny plan that God created them for. They will never spread the Gospel; they will not lay hands on the sick and see them recover, nor raise the dead, nor cast out demons, and rarely, if ever, truly worship Him for who He is because of the demonic interferance.
Post #20
I'm not saying all the issues we go through are physical in nature. But a Christian woman who is active in church, has a solid walk with God and tried every other avenue of treatment... That isn't a spiritual issue. It MOST CERTAINLY IS a spiritual issue!!
My own symptoms weren't spiritual, they were a reaction to years and years of abuse. Right. And when that abuse occured it opened the door to your soul and spirits of FEAR, TRAUMA, ANGER, RAGE AND REJECTION ENTERED your soul and proceeded to manifest in your flesh and mind. Did God cause it? No. But because those over you (Parents, etc.) did not have a right relationship with Jesus and so would know to take authority over those entities, covering you in the shed blood of Jesus, praying for you and for your healing (and there is more), God had NO CHOICE but to stand back and allow it. Not taking these things to the cross IMMEDIATELY, gives the enemy legal rights to us. And God will not violate the will of man. If man does not choose God and His ways, God removes His hands of protection and the enemy gets his way with us UNTIL WE turn to Him, seek HIS WAYS and begin to do things the way that He ordained it to be from the beginning of creation.The people who insisted it was demons really hurt me a lot. Why? Do you realize how EASY it would have been to simply receive deliverance and spiritual healing as opposed to all the doctors you saw, year after year?? It is our ignorance and PRIDE that gets riled when we are told that a physical condition we are suffering from is, in truth, spiritually based. That's why I spoke up here. If it is a spiritual problem, no medication will solve it. Right. But if a timely dose of medication does not completely CURE it, it IS a spiritual problem. But if it's a physical problem, putting blame on a person for not being a good enough Christian or not having enough faith is extremely detrimental. This statement really makes no sense, but I will agree with you that there are many ignorant People out there that call themselves Christians. They would rather stand back and judge themselves to be better than you, than they would pray for you. But one of the problems is also that far too many Christians (Hos 4:6 again) do not know HOW to pray! The BEG God to heal, to fix, to prosper, rather than take authority over the demons, like Jesus said we are to do. They do not prosper because they handle their finances irresponsibly. Their relationships are not repaired because they do not walk in humility, putting others first, always walking the path of "Me first". (I am guilty as well of doing this. And Holy Spirit is quick to tell me when I do. ) When Jesus was on the Cross, He said "IT IS FINISHED" He has all ready Done all that He is going to do. WE need only appropriate it...apply it, use it and do it.
Maggie
Post #8
I work in mental health, and I carry a diagnosis of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder myself.
And I can say one thing for certain: GOD CAN HEAL ANYTHING, BUT JUST BECAUSE THERE IS A SPIRITUAL CURE DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A SPIRITUAL PROBLEM. That does not even make sense. ALL of man's maladies are spiritual. But here is the key: IF a medical problem (remembering that a curse does not fall without a cause Prov 26:2) CAN be cured by medication...such as strepp throat, poison ivy, abdominal gas, or any bacterial infection that responds to antibiotics, one can say that it is CAUSED by natural occurances....coming into contact with someone that has the bacteria, a poisonous plant, eating poorly, etc. While these conditions are not demonic, per se, scripture tells us that NO curse...no bad thing can happen to a person UNLESS there is a REASON. The devil is an opportunist and will take every open door he sees to bring sickness and DIS-EASE to the human body. So while it can be treated and ELIMINATED COMPLETELY with the medication, the reason it was ALLOWED to happen is SPIRITUAL. // Now...when a human malady, such as cancer, tuberculosis, diabetes, or any other condition that can be TREATED BUT NOT CURED by medciations, comes to a person, it is because of one of two spiritual reasons: 1~ there is a generational curse of iniquity in the person's familial blood line. (Ex 20:5 is a spiritual LAW and eternal); or 2~ there is unrepented sin, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy, or FEAR that needs to be confessed and repented of. Every one of these things opens the door of the person's soul to the kingdom of darkness and gives LEGAL access to the demonic. Remember that it is their GOAL to Kill, Steal and Destroy!!
That is not to say that there is no spiritual realm or spiritual forces at work in our lives. But I've known women who are dedicated to God and still experience all the symptoms of their diagnoses. This is true! But the question is WHY? The answer is Hos 4:6. Lack of KNOWLEDGE of the spiritual realm and its dynamics and the principles of God's words is the number one reason why people suffer. If the Church had not ceased their teachings on these matters, back in the year 200, humanity would not have suffered as it did and would not suffer as it Does. People today are no longer taught about the truth of generational iniquity, about curses, word curses spoken over our lives by other people...and by ourselves!! They are no longer taught that SIN causes sickness. Everytime Jesus healed in the Bible, He told the person to 'sin no more'. One of these women, I'll call hey Kay, lived 50 years of her life before getting a diagnosis of bipolar. She tried prayer and bible study, she tried church, she tried getting others to pray for her healing, she tried therapy, she tried EVERYTHING. She was dedicated to God, and still is. And, about six or seven years ago, Kay finally (under the urging of the psychologist/psychiatrist who had been counseling her for years) tried medication. She swears that was the last piece of the puzzle, and now lives a happy, fulfilled, God-filled life. Psychiatry/ psychology and pharmacy all come from the same Greek root word as WITCHCRAFT. Being BOUND to pharmaceuticals is NOT a "God-filled life"! It is living a life of bondage to something that God never intended. Note that this does NOT negate the love of the person toward Christ. But it DOES negate the FREEDOM for which He died to give!
I was on medication for a long time, but am not now. And that isn't a choice I would recommend for anyone unless they are working with their doctor/therapist/support team. It was VERY difficult. All things ARE possible with God!! It was Never, never, NEVER His desire that you be on meds. Far too often people go to the Dr. BEFORE they go to the FATHER!! That is IDOLATRY.
Medication doesn't mean you don't believe in God or trust Him. True! That would be a stupid assumption. There have been brain scans that show the shape of the human brain CHANGES when a person has schizophrenia. Yeah, demons have the ability to influence our thinking. Science has proven that CONTINUOUS deviant behavior and thinking can change the physiology of the human body; it changes genes in those practicing homosexuality; it damages genes in those that walk in constant unforgiveness and bitterness. You wouldn't refuse chemotherapy if you had cancer, would you? Absolutely! Chemotherapy KILLS cancer, but it also kills all of the good cells and the person eventually dies an early (before 70) death. Or insulin for diabetes? Type two can be gotten rid of through treating the temple of the Holy Spirit (us) AS HOLY and feeding it GOOD nutrition instead of the junk food that created the condition.
Pray. Read God's word. See a doctor. STUDY God's word and go to HIM FIRST, USING the AUTHORITY THAT HE HAS GIVEN YOU TO OVERCOME SICKNESS, DISEASE AND DEATH.. And don't let people who have never traveled this road tell you it's all demonic if you know it isn't. I WAS diabetic. My son WAS schizophrenic. So I CAN tell you that it is demonic...plus I've studied these things intensely, learning about deliverance and spiritual warfare and healing. But again...the church NO LONGER (cuz they did in the early years) teaches these truths.
Post #11
Do you think that God has specifically caused every case of cancer, leprosy, lameness, blindness, illness and disability that He has healed, while here on the earth as Jesus Christ or through His followers? Actually GOD has caused NONE OF THEM!! It is NOT GOD that comes to kill, steal, and destroy, but our adversary who goes about like a lion, looking for someone to devour! It is no contradiction. God can reach out and heal someone, but that doesn't mean He (or the spiritual realm) is the root of all the things He has healed. Do you realize how moronic that sounds?? GOD IS SPIRITUAL. Everything He does is SPIRITUAL. He can and does heal people all the time. The ROOT of all infirmity and iniquity is SIN. Like it or not, be offended or not, SIN is what separates us from the One who heals, the One who made man perfect to begin with. Adam never knew death UNTIL he sinned. God told him he would die if he disobey. And he died. Otherwise, why didn't He cast demons out of the blind, the lame, the woman with the bleeding disorder? As I recall He did. Jesus HEALED the eyes of the man that was born blind SO that the glory of God could be revealed and displayed to the Israelites of that day; Jesus did heal a woman that was not even a Jew...so that the Gentiles would understand that they, too could be cleansed of their unrighteousness and be healed. Prior to meeting Jesus, the woman at the well did not KNOW God. She knew OF God. But when she HEARD of Jesus, she believed. Hence, Jesus' words, "Your FAITH has made you well". Faith comes by hearing.
You have cancer. You see an oncologist who diagnoses you and starts chemotherapy. The chemo doesn't work. So, you see a surgeon who's going to remove the affected tissue. He is also going to put a radioactive pellet in a part of the tumor he can't extract. Using poison to eradicate poison simply does not work.
Two years later, you're alive and in remission. Remission simply means it is not spreading. It is not CURED, as in GONE forever. So, what caused the cancer? Since cancer is NOT a transmittable malady, we can safely say it was not 'caught' from another person. According to Prov 26:2, no bad thing can come to a child of God WITHOUT JUST CAUSE. There has to be a REASON for infirmity to be able to manifest in a person's body...or mind. So, the CAUSE of the cancer is SIN...in the form of unforgivness or fear..those being the two Main reasons for this spiritual condition. Cancer KILLS. WHO kills? The devil kills. GOD never kills. Was it the oncologist or the surgeon? The chemo? The surgery or the pellet? I mean, those were all medical cures for the disease, right? WRONG!!! NOT ONE OF THEM WAS a CURE...as in "all gone and never have to deal with it ever again and you life to 70 or 80). If any of them had been a CURE, then there would not have been the NEED for any of the others. And every person with cancer would immediately get that ONE treatment that CURED. But that is not the case. So, if it's a medical problem, should there definitely be a medical cause? This kind of question comes from someone that is ignorant...lacking knowledge about how the spiritual realm WORKS...Hos 4:6 What if it was asbestos? What about it? Did the person wear the proper protective gear or were they foolish, defying wisdom? To disobey the safety mandates set down for working with this substance is 1~foolish, 2~ disobedience and therefore 3~sin. Or too much sun? same here Or what if you had a cancer from birth? How about diabetes? GENERATIONAL. Consider: Every time you go to a Dr. they ask "What conditions do/did your parents have? Your Grandparents? Your Great-grandparents? Even though the medical community does not use the phrase "generational curse" as found in the Bible, they still understand the reality of them!
Post #15
There is NO non-spiritual cure for a spiritual problem. True. There can be, however, a spiritual cure for a non-spiritual problem. EVERYTHING IS SPIRITUAL. We either walk in the freedom Christ died to give or we don't. We either are the overcomers He created us to be, or we are not. EVERY WORD in the Bible is a Spiritual word BECAUSE it was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Every tangible thing on the planet was created SUPERNATUALLY BY the SPIRIT of GOD, for GOD IS SPIRIT. Our spiritual abilities and awareness has been so dummied-down by Satan and his cohorts that few have even heard of this...and even fewer understand it.
It's a simple issue. God is the greatest Healer ever known, and He can heal all things, regardless of cause. True Man's healers are limited by their finite power and ability. They can heal some physical/psychological things, some of the time. No. Medications for any condition that is not completely CURED by it is only a bandaid...it covers the symptoms for the time the meds are taken. The meds FORCE the body to do what it should be able to do on its own. And when the meds are stopped, the DIS-EASE returns, usually with even greater determination to kill the body than before. "DIS-EASE" meaning that the Body or mind of a person is ILL-AT-EASE; DIS- EASE it to be UN at ease. "Uneasy" and Dis-ease mean the same thing and NEITHER are conditions that dictate a person RESTING in God. It therefore stands to reason that God can heal things of both a spiritual nature AND a physical or psychological nature. Yes. Jesus CAST OUT DEMONS and the people were healed.
Plus, the entire "illnesses are only caused by demonic forces/your unfaith/a deficit in character/etc" thing is very harmful to people. Truth is only harmful if they have so much pride as to walk away from what can truly cure them. EGO is a very vulnerable thing and it does not like being told that it has a spiritual condition that can be dealt with, with the provisions as simple as the ones that Christ gave us. It is pride and not the humility that we are told to emanate. It is really no different than the person that needs glasses because of advanced age, but refuses because they don't want to look old. Their PRIDE will cause them to fall and maybe even get hurt or die. Pride goes before destruction. We are our own worst enemies when we refuse to consider that ALL is spiritual and that we, Christ within us, have access to ALL that we need to live lives of great health and stamina. Christ did not come that we should remain sick!!! Stigma is a MAJOR problem with those who carry mental health diagnoses, and a major reason people don't seek the help that can save their lives. True. Demons work overtime, keeping people mentally ill. Why? So they never step into the destiny plan that God created them for. They will never spread the Gospel; they will not lay hands on the sick and see them recover, nor raise the dead, nor cast out demons, and rarely, if ever, truly worship Him for who He is because of the demonic interferance.
Post #20
I'm not saying all the issues we go through are physical in nature. But a Christian woman who is active in church, has a solid walk with God and tried every other avenue of treatment... That isn't a spiritual issue. It MOST CERTAINLY IS a spiritual issue!!
My own symptoms weren't spiritual, they were a reaction to years and years of abuse. Right. And when that abuse occured it opened the door to your soul and spirits of FEAR, TRAUMA, ANGER, RAGE AND REJECTION ENTERED your soul and proceeded to manifest in your flesh and mind. Did God cause it? No. But because those over you (Parents, etc.) did not have a right relationship with Jesus and so would know to take authority over those entities, covering you in the shed blood of Jesus, praying for you and for your healing (and there is more), God had NO CHOICE but to stand back and allow it. Not taking these things to the cross IMMEDIATELY, gives the enemy legal rights to us. And God will not violate the will of man. If man does not choose God and His ways, God removes His hands of protection and the enemy gets his way with us UNTIL WE turn to Him, seek HIS WAYS and begin to do things the way that He ordained it to be from the beginning of creation.The people who insisted it was demons really hurt me a lot. Why? Do you realize how EASY it would have been to simply receive deliverance and spiritual healing as opposed to all the doctors you saw, year after year?? It is our ignorance and PRIDE that gets riled when we are told that a physical condition we are suffering from is, in truth, spiritually based. That's why I spoke up here. If it is a spiritual problem, no medication will solve it. Right. But if a timely dose of medication does not completely CURE it, it IS a spiritual problem. But if it's a physical problem, putting blame on a person for not being a good enough Christian or not having enough faith is extremely detrimental. This statement really makes no sense, but I will agree with you that there are many ignorant People out there that call themselves Christians. They would rather stand back and judge themselves to be better than you, than they would pray for you. But one of the problems is also that far too many Christians (Hos 4:6 again) do not know HOW to pray! The BEG God to heal, to fix, to prosper, rather than take authority over the demons, like Jesus said we are to do. They do not prosper because they handle their finances irresponsibly. Their relationships are not repaired because they do not walk in humility, putting others first, always walking the path of "Me first". (I am guilty as well of doing this. And Holy Spirit is quick to tell me when I do. ) When Jesus was on the Cross, He said "IT IS FINISHED" He has all ready Done all that He is going to do. WE need only appropriate it...apply it, use it and do it.
Maggie
T
tif
Guest
Maggie, I'm sorry, but your logic is DEEPLY flawed. I don't have the time or energy to address your entire wall-o-text after an 11-hour workday, but I will do what I can.
Absolutely wrong.
You can twist words in order to say that nothing is physical in nature and ALL things are spiritual, but that doesn't make it so.
For the purposes of this discussion, I hold "spiritual cause" to mean: Caused directly by a spiritual entity.
So, antibiotics were created in the 1800s, but were not readily available until the 1900s. Infections were not cured with medicines until that time. So, in the 1700s and before, wouldn't people have believed there was no "cure" for these disorders?
Also, you hold that Diabetes cannot be cured, and thus is a spiritual malady. You really don't know much about the disease. I have known several people personally whose blood glucose levels have been so stable at such a low level that they no longer qualify for a diabetes diagnosis. And not all of them have been Christian.
Tuberculosis can also be cured. It just takes 6-24 months of treatment.
Is your statement supposed to mean that anyone who gets worse, despite treatment, is either caused by 1) familial sin of iniquity or 2) unrepented sin, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy or fear? If so, I think you need to read the book of Job. Job was a righteous man, a just man, and his life fell apart around him. When Job is finally in despair and asks God, "Why?", God answers him. He basically says, "Who are you to question this?" Are you trying to say that Job was either a victim of familial sin or unrepented sin, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy or fear? That's not what the bible says.
What a judgmental statement. I went to God before anyone else, I went to the church, I spoke directly with pastors. When I needed medication, it saved my life. And I believe in God. Those two are NOT mutually exclusive. I NEVER idolized medication or the psychiatrists who prescribed them.
I think that says it all.
No. He didn't. Re-read the stories of Jesus' healing. He did NOT cast demons out of all of those He healed. If you try to add that part to try and prove some point, you are adding to the scripture.
Also, the woman at the well was a Samaritan. She's the one with multiple "husbands." The woman I'm talking of was the one with the bleeding disorder who touched Jesus' garment. They aren't the same woman.
No.
I turned to God and put my faith in Him. And I STILL had flashbacks and nightmares.
You have no idea what it is to hurt like that. You have no compassion for people going through these things because, after all, it's their own faults.
I want you to look at one passage:
Notice this. Paul didn't say, "I was given a thorn in my flesh so that I could go and have a faith healing session." He was give a thorn, and the Lord didn't take it from Him.
I prayed. I asked the Lord to take away my pain and struggles. And do you think that, even now, they are gone?
I have walked in faith in MANY things when God has led me. I have given Him all of me, to use as He will. And when I pray for Him to take this away from me, He says, "Not yet."
God isn't a soda machine: When we put prayers in, He isn't obliged to give us what we want. God isn't santa: He doesn't exist to fill our wish list. I've learned that God loves us, more than we can possibly know. He wants relationship with us. And he can take what was meant for evil and turn it to good.
I wish, Maggie, that you had more to say directly from the word of God, and I don't mean more barely-applicable one-liners.
And I can say one thing for certain: GOD CAN HEAL ANYTHING, BUT JUST BECAUSE THERE IS A SPIRITUAL CURE DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A SPIRITUAL PROBLEM. That does not even make sense. ALL of man's maladies are spiritual. But here is the key: IF a medical problem (remembering that a curse does not fall without a cause Prov 26:2) CAN be cured by medication...such as strepp throat, poison ivy, abdominal gas, or any bacterial infection that responds to antibiotics, one can say that it is CAUSED by natural occurances....coming into contact with someone that has the bacteria, a poisonous plant, eating poorly, etc. While these conditions are not demonic, per se, scripture tells us that NO curse...no bad thing can happen to a person UNLESS there is a REASON. The devil is an opportunist and will take every open door he sees to bring sickness and DIS-EASE to the human body. So while it can be treated and ELIMINATED COMPLETELY with the medication, the reason it was ALLOWED to happen is SPIRITUAL. // Now...when a human malady, such as cancer, tuberculosis, diabetes, or any other condition that can be TREATED BUT NOT CURED by medciations, comes to a person, it is because of one of two spiritual reasons: 1~ there is a generational curse of iniquity in the person's familial blood line. (Ex 20:5 is a spiritual LAW and eternal); or 2~ there is unrepented sin, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy, or FEAR that needs to be confessed and repented of. Every one of these things opens the door of the person's soul to the kingdom of darkness and gives LEGAL access to the demonic. Remember that it is their GOAL to Kill, Steal and Destroy!!
Absolutely wrong.
You can twist words in order to say that nothing is physical in nature and ALL things are spiritual, but that doesn't make it so.
For the purposes of this discussion, I hold "spiritual cause" to mean: Caused directly by a spiritual entity.
So, antibiotics were created in the 1800s, but were not readily available until the 1900s. Infections were not cured with medicines until that time. So, in the 1700s and before, wouldn't people have believed there was no "cure" for these disorders?
Also, you hold that Diabetes cannot be cured, and thus is a spiritual malady. You really don't know much about the disease. I have known several people personally whose blood glucose levels have been so stable at such a low level that they no longer qualify for a diabetes diagnosis. And not all of them have been Christian.
Tuberculosis can also be cured. It just takes 6-24 months of treatment.
Is your statement supposed to mean that anyone who gets worse, despite treatment, is either caused by 1) familial sin of iniquity or 2) unrepented sin, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy or fear? If so, I think you need to read the book of Job. Job was a righteous man, a just man, and his life fell apart around him. When Job is finally in despair and asks God, "Why?", God answers him. He basically says, "Who are you to question this?" Are you trying to say that Job was either a victim of familial sin or unrepented sin, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy or fear? That's not what the bible says.
All things ARE possible with God!! It was Never, never, NEVER His desire that you be on meds. Far too often people go to the Dr. BEFORE they go to the FATHER!! That is IDOLATRY.
What a judgmental statement. I went to God before anyone else, I went to the church, I spoke directly with pastors. When I needed medication, it saved my life. And I believe in God. Those two are NOT mutually exclusive. I NEVER idolized medication or the psychiatrists who prescribed them.
You wouldn't refuse chemotherapy if you had cancer, would you?
Absolutely! Chemotherapy KILLS cancer, but it also kills all of the good cells and the person eventually dies an early (before 70) death.
Absolutely! Chemotherapy KILLS cancer, but it also kills all of the good cells and the person eventually dies an early (before 70) death.
I think that says it all.
Otherwise, why didn't He cast demons out of the blind, the lame, the woman with the bleeding disorder?
As I recall He did. Jesus HEALED the eyes of the man that was born blind SO that the glory of God could be revealed and displayed to the Israelites of that day; Jesus did heal a woman that was not even a Jew...so that the Gentiles would understand that they, too could be cleansed of their unrighteousness and be healed. Prior to meeting Jesus, the woman at the well did not KNOW God. She knew OF God. But when she HEARD of Jesus, she believed. Hence, Jesus' words, "Your FAITH has made you well". Faith comes by hearing.
As I recall He did. Jesus HEALED the eyes of the man that was born blind SO that the glory of God could be revealed and displayed to the Israelites of that day; Jesus did heal a woman that was not even a Jew...so that the Gentiles would understand that they, too could be cleansed of their unrighteousness and be healed. Prior to meeting Jesus, the woman at the well did not KNOW God. She knew OF God. But when she HEARD of Jesus, she believed. Hence, Jesus' words, "Your FAITH has made you well". Faith comes by hearing.
No. He didn't. Re-read the stories of Jesus' healing. He did NOT cast demons out of all of those He healed. If you try to add that part to try and prove some point, you are adding to the scripture.
Also, the woman at the well was a Samaritan. She's the one with multiple "husbands." The woman I'm talking of was the one with the bleeding disorder who touched Jesus' garment. They aren't the same woman.
My own symptoms weren't spiritual, they were a reaction to years and years of abuse.
Right. And when that abuse occured it opened the door to your soul and spirits of FEAR, TRAUMA, ANGER, RAGE AND REJECTION ENTERED your soul and proceeded to manifest in your flesh and mind. Did God cause it? No. But because those over you (Parents, etc.) did not have a right relationship with Jesus and so would know to take authority over those entities, covering you in the shed blood of Jesus, praying for you and for your healing (and there is more), God had NO CHOICE but to stand back and allow it. Not taking these things to the cross IMMEDIATELY, gives the enemy legal rights to us. And God will not violate the will of man. If man does not choose God and His ways, God removes His hands of protection and the enemy gets his way with us UNTIL WE turn to Him, seek HIS WAYS and begin to do things the way that He ordained it to be from the beginning of creation
Right. And when that abuse occured it opened the door to your soul and spirits of FEAR, TRAUMA, ANGER, RAGE AND REJECTION ENTERED your soul and proceeded to manifest in your flesh and mind. Did God cause it? No. But because those over you (Parents, etc.) did not have a right relationship with Jesus and so would know to take authority over those entities, covering you in the shed blood of Jesus, praying for you and for your healing (and there is more), God had NO CHOICE but to stand back and allow it. Not taking these things to the cross IMMEDIATELY, gives the enemy legal rights to us. And God will not violate the will of man. If man does not choose God and His ways, God removes His hands of protection and the enemy gets his way with us UNTIL WE turn to Him, seek HIS WAYS and begin to do things the way that He ordained it to be from the beginning of creation
No.
I turned to God and put my faith in Him. And I STILL had flashbacks and nightmares.
You have no idea what it is to hurt like that. You have no compassion for people going through these things because, after all, it's their own faults.
I want you to look at one passage:
II Cor 12:7-10
Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Notice this. Paul didn't say, "I was given a thorn in my flesh so that I could go and have a faith healing session." He was give a thorn, and the Lord didn't take it from Him.
I prayed. I asked the Lord to take away my pain and struggles. And do you think that, even now, they are gone?
I have walked in faith in MANY things when God has led me. I have given Him all of me, to use as He will. And when I pray for Him to take this away from me, He says, "Not yet."
God isn't a soda machine: When we put prayers in, He isn't obliged to give us what we want. God isn't santa: He doesn't exist to fill our wish list. I've learned that God loves us, more than we can possibly know. He wants relationship with us. And he can take what was meant for evil and turn it to good.
I wish, Maggie, that you had more to say directly from the word of God, and I don't mean more barely-applicable one-liners.
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vahn
Guest
Hey tif, have you ever experienced a severe mental disorder before? I don't think your in any position to say something that you've never expierenced first hand.
Mild anxiety and nightmares? Who doesnt get those? Try having a consistent application of unreality, loss of every relationship and consistent sensory changes. I think you need to take a step back and re-evaluate.
And who ever said God was Santa Clause? It seems like you are putting words into people's posts. So because I want a healing, I treat God like he's Santa? Right on.
Mild anxiety and nightmares? Who doesnt get those? Try having a consistent application of unreality, loss of every relationship and consistent sensory changes. I think you need to take a step back and re-evaluate.
And who ever said God was Santa Clause? It seems like you are putting words into people's posts. So because I want a healing, I treat God like he's Santa? Right on.
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Vahn. I believe it said somewhere that she suffered from PTSD. That is a severe problem in many cases.
You can't knowingly say that your problems are any worse than hers.
I have people telling me to get off disability and start working more hours because I don't "look" or "act" Bipolar.. what is bipolar supposed to look like?
Even" mild" cases of a mental illness can be devastating to the person suffering from them.
You can't knowingly say that your problems are any worse than hers.
I have people telling me to get off disability and start working more hours because I don't "look" or "act" Bipolar.. what is bipolar supposed to look like?
Even" mild" cases of a mental illness can be devastating to the person suffering from them.
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tif
Guest
I did not direct the "Santa" comment at you. The Santa comment was in response to a post saying that any infirmities that "can't be cured" are either caused by
1~ there is a generational curse of iniquity in the person's familial blood line. (Ex 20:5 is a spiritual LAW and eternal); or 2~ there is unrepented sin, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy, or FEAR that needs to be confessed and repented of
And yes, I think that saying healing is a matter of what WE do (repent, forgive, etc.) IS making God into some sort of vending machine or magical Genie. Who am I to question why God doesn't heal in all cases? Who was Job? Just because we might have a "thorn," an illness, a disease... Unless you ascribe to some metaphysical belief that everything is spiritual and there is no physical (which, btw, is not what the bible says), then there ARE physical things in this life. Why do you think Jesus Himself said, "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak” ? It's simple: Because the flesh (our earthly, physical nature) is weak.
Now, I didn't know I'd need to give a rundown of my "qualifications" for posting in this thread. I will talk about them, though, so you can understand.
I had severe PTSD symptoms. You think only people with schizophrenia have a constant sense of unreality? The loss of every relationship you ever held dear?
1) I had flashbacks. These are horrible to experience, and even moreso because my brain had blocked every memory of the abuse. So, I had flashbacks, but I didn't know if they were even real. And the abuse was severe. I mostly shy away from talking about specifics, but there is one memory I have of being in my bedroom at about 6 years old. My dad was screaming into my face. I was terrified. He started to leave. I said something like, "Why are you so mean?" Wrong question. He flew back into the room, grabbed me by one leg, and started beating me while I was hanging upside-down. My head was hitting the dresser.
When I first remembered that, I thought it meant the flashbacks weren't real, because (you see) I saw the entire scene from above. I later learned that this is VERY common for people who have experienced severe abuses, especially with dissociative disorders.
2) I had nightmares, and not like you have ever had. My nightmares involved the abuse, and also fear for my life, running from evil men who tried to kill me. I had a nightmare once for about six months, every single night, more than once a night. I was falling through darkness, and I'd physically jump in my sleep. I would wake up screaming, drenched in sweat, utterly terrified. This happened, more nights than not, for six years. I don't think that's what most people think of when they say "nightmares": Screaming in your sleep, waking with your heart pounding, praying to God that He'll take them away just for a night, just long enough for you to actually rest. You have no idea, vahn, what it is dread going to sleep.
3) "Mild" anxiety--What an understatement. More like crippling, devastating, purposeless terror. More often than not, I couldn't find a real reason that I was anxious. A panic attack is painful. It has been likened to the pain of a heart attack. Your chest feels like it's caving in. Sometimes, I would vomit repeatedly because of the pain and the terror. Before anyone knew about my PTSD, when I was about 16 or 17, I was admitted to the ER for heart attack symptoms (which puzzled the heck out of the doctors, both because of my youth and general good health, and because the test results were all completely normal). Panic attacks also bring an impending feeling of doom or fear.
I used to wake up every morning between 4 and 5:30 AM with, and every evening after sunset have, the worst panic attacks I've ever had. I figured it out after a couple of years; I was having panic attacks at the very times my dad would have been at home when I was a child.
4) I dissociated on and off for years after the abuse. Dissociation is difficult to explain: I was still me when I dissociated, but it was like the memories didn't get stored. It is only recently that I have not been dissociating. I have blank spots in my memory as far back as I can remember. There were times when I would sit at a computer working, and all the sudden, I had a floppy in each hand and no idea what I'd been doing for the last hour. I once was driving to a destination an hour away, and dissociated during the drive. When I was present again, I didn't know which freeway I was on or even which direction I was going. It was terrifying.
But I don't have separate personalities. At times of high stress or high emotion, my brain has created a barrier that blocks the memories. That protected me when I was a child, but now it had begun interfering with my life.
5) Bad coping skills. I suppose some people have never gone through the things I have and can't understand that kind of pain. They can't understand praying themselves to sleep every single night or falling asleep over their bibles, only to wake in the most horrific terror they have ever endured.
For me, I don't think medication was the best choice (except to stabilize and allow me a little sleep). What I needed was intensive therapy, which I didn't get. At 5 years old, a Christian counsellor told me that daddy hitting me was just spankings and that it meant he loved me enough to discipline me. Those words were probably the worst words I ever heard. In one sentence, this woman with a mail-order counseling certificate told me that I needed discipline and that what my dad did to me was normal and GOOD. The thing is, my dad NEVER hit me to discipline me. He hit me because he was stressed from work and I was playing too loudly in my room, or he was screaming at my younger sister and to protect her I said "She didn't do anything," or because he put me in the corner of a room and (while seated in a chair behind me) screamed into the back of my head and hit me any time I made a noise, INCLUDING CRYING (at 5 or 6 years old).
And in my pain and loneliness (because, you see, my friends had all stopped talking to me when I became sad and withdrawn, and my mom was in a drunken haze every day), I began to hurt myself, just so that the panic attacks would stop for a little while and I could sleep. I don't know quite why I did it, but I know it wasn't something I learned from others. And I was ashamed of it, deeply ashamed. And it scared me so much that I told a therapist and went to a hospital for it twice, long before I even thought of openly talking about it. I hid my scars. I didn't want anyone to know what I'd done, but I was so scared because I couldn't stop. This was a true addiction. There's a large body of research about the chemicals and hormones in a child's brain when they're raised in an abusive environment.
Vahn, I lost everything. I was an extremely bright student, but I didn't even get my high school diploma. I failed out of college. I lost every friend I had. Every. Single. One. I couldn't have a normal relationship because my mind and concept of love was so screwed up. I had a lot of self-hatred, because I believed I was a bad person who needed to be punished.
It is by God's grace and overwhelming love that I stand where I am today. And He didn't heal me because I did all the right things or anything like that.
About two years ago, I had just broken up with my fiance. A pastor (husband of a friend) pulled me aside and asked how I was. And honestly, I was upset. I had lost the man I loved, and I was so deeply damaged that I didn't believe I'd ever be lovable again. I told him, "I know that Paul's problems didn't go away, but I already went through the abuse and the flashbacks and nightmares. Why should I keep going through them? I know I just need to accept it and move on, but I can't even remember things like my first kiss with Sean."
The pastor said, "I know you won't believe me right now, but God wants me to tell you something. He loves you, and He is going to make you whole. Now, you might not get back all your memories (and a lot of them, you probably wouldn't want), but sometime, you are going to stop losing them, and God is going to heal you of this."
And that has begun to happen. Now, when the pastor gave me that word from God, I was angry at Him for that very thing. I didn't think He was really listening. And even in my rebellion and deep dark sadness, He made a promise to me. He didn't tell the pastor to say, "If you do X, Y and Z" or "When you turn from your rebellion." He just made a beautiful promise to me. And I believe God keeps His promises, regardless of what else happens, just as He promised the wayward nation of Israel to establish her as a nation and bring her back to her land.
I no longer dissociate. I no longer self-injure. I no longer have the nightmares. I have a panic attack maybe once in four or five months. My anxiety and depression have abated for the most part (though I still have them). And this isn't because of me, but because God loved me enough to bring me back to Him when I was broken and make me new.
Now, Maggie and vahn, do not quote me or twist my words for your own purposes. I wanted to make sure you both understand that I have had a SEVERE mental illness. I was on disability and SSI because I was unable to work. I now am able, by the grace of God, to work 40+ hours a week. It would be heartless to quote this and make it all something it isn't. So, please, just let my words be a testament to the pain I endured and the transformation God can bring to a life void of hope.
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vahn
Guest
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tif
Guest
Vahn, I wasn't accusing you of twisting words. I was asking you and Maggie to leave that one post--the one with all the hurts and pains of my past--out of continued conversation, and to just let it speak to my ability to relate to this topic. I can't control what anyone does with my words once they're out there, but it is a request from my heart, for you to please leave that post alone and not try and say my experiences were other than what I stated.
I won't say that God can't heal everything, because I know He can and does. But I also know that there are people who suffer and, in that suffering, find that they can do nothing apart from God. That no matter how much faith they have, they still have problems that won't go away, and that relying on the one true God is the only way they'll get through life.
I'm not discounting God's healing power. Please don't discount my experiences either, or those of the countless faithful Christians who have medicine to help them continue in their service to our Father. I couldn't have gotten my diabetes under control without the help of medicines, and I know many who are completely and totally committed to God AND take medications for things like diabetes, cancer, heart disease, mental illness, and other life-threatening disorders.
I won't say that God can't heal everything, because I know He can and does. But I also know that there are people who suffer and, in that suffering, find that they can do nothing apart from God. That no matter how much faith they have, they still have problems that won't go away, and that relying on the one true God is the only way they'll get through life.
I'm not discounting God's healing power. Please don't discount my experiences either, or those of the countless faithful Christians who have medicine to help them continue in their service to our Father. I couldn't have gotten my diabetes under control without the help of medicines, and I know many who are completely and totally committed to God AND take medications for things like diabetes, cancer, heart disease, mental illness, and other life-threatening disorders.
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MaggieMye
Guest
Maggie, I'm sorry, but your logic is DEEPLY flawed. I don't have the time or energy to address your entire wall-o-text after an 11-hour workday, but I will do what I can. It is completely worth the time and energy. Discussing these things thoroughly is how people come to learn and receive new revelations that have, in the past, been hidden from them by the enemy.
And I can say one thing for certain: GOD CAN HEAL ANYTHING, BUT JUST BECAUSE THERE IS A SPIRITUAL CURE DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A SPIRITUAL PROBLEM. That does not even make sense. ALL of man's maladies are spiritual. But here is the key: IF a medical problem (remembering that a curse does not fall without a cause Prov 26:2) CAN be cured by medication...such as strepp throat, poison ivy, abdominal gas, or any bacterial infection that responds to antibiotics, one can say that it is CAUSED by natural occurances....coming into contact with someone that has the bacteria, a poisonous plant, eating poorly, etc. While these conditions are not demonic, per se, scripture tells us that NO curse...no bad thing can happen to a person UNLESS there is a REASON. The devil is an opportunist and will take every open door he sees to bring sickness and DIS-EASE to the human body. So while it can be treated and ELIMINATED COMPLETELY with the medication, the reason it was ALLOWED to happen is SPIRITUAL. // Now...when a human malady, such as cancer, tuberculosis, diabetes, or any other condition that can be TREATED BUT NOT CURED by medciations, comes to a person, it is because of one of two spiritual reasons: 1~ there is a generational curse of iniquity in the person's familial blood line. (Ex 20:5 is a spiritual LAW and eternal); or 2~ there is unrepented sin, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy, or FEAR that needs to be confessed and repented of. Every one of these things opens the door of the person's soul to the kingdom of darkness and gives LEGAL access to the demonic. Remember that it is their GOAL to Kill, Steal and Destroy!!
Absolutely wrong. Sorry you believe that because believing that LIE will keep you in bondage.
You can twist words in order to say that nothing is physical in nature and ALL things are spiritual, but that doesn't make it so. I twisted nothing. It is your lack of knowledge about how the spiritual realm WORKS and OPERATES that is either twisting my words or causing you to not understand.
For the purposes of this discussion, I hold "spiritual cause" to mean: Caused directly by a spiritual entity. Yes and No. It is the entities that manipulate and bring damage to the physical body, but it is the spiritual INIQUITY that is the REASON that they have the right to do so.
So, antibiotics were created in the 1800s, but were not readily available until the 1900s. Infections were not cured with medicines until that time. So, in the 1700s and before, wouldn't people have believed there was no "cure" for these disorders? It does not matter. Because NO curse can come to a person without just cause. Read the OT and see that every time Israel suffered it was because of sin and disobedience. EVERYTIME.
Also, you hold that Diabetes cannot be cured, and thus is a spiritual malady. You really don't know much about the disease. I have known several people personally whose blood glucose levels have been so stable at such a low level that they no longer qualify for a diabetes diagnosis. And not all of them have been Christian. I understand this. Diabetes comes about either by generational curse OR by ABUSE of the physical body by eating poorly. It is one of the FEW diseases...dis-eases that can be reversed by HONORING the body and NOT defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit. The principles work regardless of salvation. IF you give the body the right nutrition, many conditions can be reversed. These conditions ARE spiritual in that it is the greed and gluttony that a person lives in that bring about the disease. When the over-eating and improper eating are stop, the condition reverses over time. Remember that God will NOT violate our free will and the demonic do not have the ability to do so either. It is only when WE give in to the temptation, that our enemy steps in and has his way.
Tuberculosis can also be cured. It just takes 6-24 months of treatment. Can be and 'always is' cursed are two different things. Bottom line is that the condition did not just show up. There is always iniquity in place for any disease to be able to manifest in the human body.
You can twist words in order to say that nothing is physical in nature and ALL things are spiritual, but that doesn't make it so. I twisted nothing. It is your lack of knowledge about how the spiritual realm WORKS and OPERATES that is either twisting my words or causing you to not understand.
For the purposes of this discussion, I hold "spiritual cause" to mean: Caused directly by a spiritual entity. Yes and No. It is the entities that manipulate and bring damage to the physical body, but it is the spiritual INIQUITY that is the REASON that they have the right to do so.
So, antibiotics were created in the 1800s, but were not readily available until the 1900s. Infections were not cured with medicines until that time. So, in the 1700s and before, wouldn't people have believed there was no "cure" for these disorders? It does not matter. Because NO curse can come to a person without just cause. Read the OT and see that every time Israel suffered it was because of sin and disobedience. EVERYTIME.
Also, you hold that Diabetes cannot be cured, and thus is a spiritual malady. You really don't know much about the disease. I have known several people personally whose blood glucose levels have been so stable at such a low level that they no longer qualify for a diabetes diagnosis. And not all of them have been Christian. I understand this. Diabetes comes about either by generational curse OR by ABUSE of the physical body by eating poorly. It is one of the FEW diseases...dis-eases that can be reversed by HONORING the body and NOT defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit. The principles work regardless of salvation. IF you give the body the right nutrition, many conditions can be reversed. These conditions ARE spiritual in that it is the greed and gluttony that a person lives in that bring about the disease. When the over-eating and improper eating are stop, the condition reverses over time. Remember that God will NOT violate our free will and the demonic do not have the ability to do so either. It is only when WE give in to the temptation, that our enemy steps in and has his way.
Tuberculosis can also be cured. It just takes 6-24 months of treatment. Can be and 'always is' cursed are two different things. Bottom line is that the condition did not just show up. There is always iniquity in place for any disease to be able to manifest in the human body.
You might be interested to read a book or two on Iniquity. Ana Mendez Ferrell has an excellent book that explains what it is and how it works.
Is your statement supposed to mean that anyone who gets worse, despite treatment, is either caused by 1) familial sin of iniquity or 2) unrepented sin, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy or fear? If so, I think you need to read the book of Job. Job was a righteous man, a just man, and his life fell apart around him. When Job is finally in despair and asks God, "Why?", God answers him. He basically says, "Who are you to question this?" Are you trying to say that Job was either a victim of familial sin or unrepented sin, unforgiveness, bitterness, jealousy or fear? That's not what the bible says. Ahhh, yes. Job. Do you not understand that Job was a very righteous man? He was BLAMELESS. That is to say that IF he sinned, he immediately went to God with it and confessed it and repented. But the Word of God says he was blameless. He was righteous. And this DOES mean that he did not choose to sin. This does not equate him with Christ, simply because of his parentage. Christ's parents were the Holy Spirit and Mary, while Job's parents were both human. Even in all his trials, Job did not sin. You miss the whole point of Job if you think it is to show that God ALLOWED the devil to have at him without cause. It IS correct to say that there was no cause. But the point of the whole scenario is to show that even in his trials, unjustified as they were, Job STILL did not sin against God and WE are to follow that example...this foreshadowing of Christ's suffering. You also need to remember that WE have the Cross which Job did not. WE have the 2nd baptism and empowerment of the Holy Spirit and Job did not. We have authority over the demonic and can choose to succumb to it or to overcome it. Job did not. God used Job as a foreshadow of the undeserved suffering that Christ would endure. Many miss that truth. AND God extravagantly BLESSED Job...even as a way of saying "thank you for your trust in Me...so that I could show, prophetically, an example of what the Messiah will endure". This is the CHARACTER of GOD!
All things ARE possible with God!! It was Never, never, NEVER His desire that you be on meds. Far too often people go to the Dr. BEFORE they go to the FATHER!! That is IDOLATRY.
What a judgmental statement. No, TIF, it is not judgmental. It is truth. I went to God before anyone else, I went to the church, I spoke directly with pastors. When I needed medication, it saved my life. And I believe in God. Those two are NOT mutually exclusive. I NEVER idolized medication or the psychiatrists who prescribed them. I understand this. But did you receive deliverance? Did you have generational curses broken off of you? Did you take authority..the authority that Christ died to give you, over your body and use the tools that He provided to fight the spiritual battle that was raging behind the scenes?? Did you even know that there WAS a battle over your life in the spiritual realm??
You wouldn't refuse chemotherapy if you had cancer, would you? No, I would not.
Absolutely! Chemotherapy KILLS cancer, but it also kills all of the good cells and the person eventually dies an early (before 70) death.
Absolutely! Chemotherapy KILLS cancer, but it also kills all of the good cells and the person eventually dies an early (before 70) death.
Otherwise, why didn't He cast demons out of the blind, the lame, the woman with the bleeding disorder?
As I recall He did. Jesus HEALED the eyes of the man that was born blind SO that the glory of God could be revealed and displayed to the Israelites of that day; Jesus did heal a woman that was not even a Jew...so that the Gentiles would understand that they, too could be cleansed of their unrighteousness and be healed. Prior to meeting Jesus, the woman at the well did not KNOW God. She knew OF God. But when she HEARD of Jesus, she believed. Hence, Jesus' words, "Your FAITH has made you well". Faith comes by hearing.
As I recall He did. Jesus HEALED the eyes of the man that was born blind SO that the glory of God could be revealed and displayed to the Israelites of that day; Jesus did heal a woman that was not even a Jew...so that the Gentiles would understand that they, too could be cleansed of their unrighteousness and be healed. Prior to meeting Jesus, the woman at the well did not KNOW God. She knew OF God. But when she HEARD of Jesus, she believed. Hence, Jesus' words, "Your FAITH has made you well". Faith comes by hearing.
No. He didn't. Re-read the stories of Jesus' healing. He did NOT cast demons out of all of those He healed. If you try to add that part to try and prove some point, you are adding to the scripture. No, I added nothing. Scripture says that sickness and disease cannot come without a cause. When curses are in place, there are ALWAYS demons manipulating the flesh. Sin causes curses. Sin opens the door for demons. Demons NEED people to inhabit so they can do what they were created to do.
Also, the woman at the well was a Samaritan. She's the one with multiple "husbands." The woman I'm talking of was the one with the bleeding disorder who touched Jesus' garment. They aren't the same woman. I know that. Whether it was the woman bent over for 18 years (Luke 13) or the one with INFIRMITY/affliction of hemorrhaging for 12 years, it ALL had to do with the enemy STEALING their health from them which he could only do IF he had a legal RIGHT to do so. Do a word study on "infirmity", 'sickness', 'disease' and 'iniquity'. Strong's Concordance is very helpful. We have the GOD-given RIGHT and RESPONSIBILITY and AUTHORITY to CANCEL the assignments of the enemy against us! Now THAT is COOL!
Also, the woman at the well was a Samaritan. She's the one with multiple "husbands." The woman I'm talking of was the one with the bleeding disorder who touched Jesus' garment. They aren't the same woman. I know that. Whether it was the woman bent over for 18 years (Luke 13) or the one with INFIRMITY/affliction of hemorrhaging for 12 years, it ALL had to do with the enemy STEALING their health from them which he could only do IF he had a legal RIGHT to do so. Do a word study on "infirmity", 'sickness', 'disease' and 'iniquity'. Strong's Concordance is very helpful. We have the GOD-given RIGHT and RESPONSIBILITY and AUTHORITY to CANCEL the assignments of the enemy against us! Now THAT is COOL!
My own symptoms weren't spiritual, they were a reaction to years and years of abuse. And just what entities do you think was BEHIND that abuse?? Do you think God caused it? He did not!! Do you think that those that abused you simply thought one day, "I'm going to violate TIF just for fun!"? NO. It was the work of the devil and his minions working IN and THROUGH people that caused them to violate you and disobey God's word! It was WICKEDNESS in its full form working against you ...to take you out, to make you of no effect for the kingdom of God, to try to kill you! These things are true! And if the church would, again, teach these things, the Body of Christ would be able to rise up and become the overcomers that we were create to be!!
Right. And when that abuse occurred it opened the door to your soul and spirits of FEAR, TRAUMA, ANGER, RAGE AND REJECTION ENTERED your soul and proceeded to manifest in your flesh and mind. Did God cause it? No. But because those over you (Parents, etc.) did not have a right relationship with Jesus and so would know to take authority over those entities, covering you in the shed blood of Jesus, praying for you and for your healing (and there is more), God had NO CHOICE but to stand back and allow it. Not taking these things to the cross IMMEDIATELY, gives the enemy legal rights to us. And God will not violate the will of man. If man does not choose God and His ways, God removes His hands of protection and the enemy gets his way with us UNTIL WE turn to Him, seek HIS WAYS and begin to do things the way that He ordained it to be from the beginning of creation
Right. And when that abuse occurred it opened the door to your soul and spirits of FEAR, TRAUMA, ANGER, RAGE AND REJECTION ENTERED your soul and proceeded to manifest in your flesh and mind. Did God cause it? No. But because those over you (Parents, etc.) did not have a right relationship with Jesus and so would know to take authority over those entities, covering you in the shed blood of Jesus, praying for you and for your healing (and there is more), God had NO CHOICE but to stand back and allow it. Not taking these things to the cross IMMEDIATELY, gives the enemy legal rights to us. And God will not violate the will of man. If man does not choose God and His ways, God removes His hands of protection and the enemy gets his way with us UNTIL WE turn to Him, seek HIS WAYS and begin to do things the way that He ordained it to be from the beginning of creation
No. You can choose to walk away from this teaching which can bring you into understanding as to how to get free in Christ Jesus. Or you can let it be a beginning lesson which should encourage you to LEARN MORE so that you can be free as He desires you to be.
I turned to God and put my faith in Him. And I STILL had flashbacks and nightmares. Hos 4:6
You have no idea what it is to hurt like that. You are right. While I've not suffered any sexual abuse I have had other types. And it is all the same root and cause. You have no compassion for people going through these things because, after all, it's their own faults. TIF it is because of my compassion that I say these things. Do you really believe that I relish your trauma? Never! But I'm giving you TOOLS and understanding about the kingdom of darkness and how it works against you/us at every turn! And I am not doing it to be mean or prideful or 'compassion-less' but so that you can choose to learn and step into the freedom that He died to give you!!
I want you to look at one passage:II Cor 12:7-10
Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Notice this. Paul didn't say, "I was given a thorn in my flesh so that I could go and have a faith healing session." He was give a thorn, and the Lord didn't take it from Him. Right, now re-read that verse CAREFULLY. We are told exactly what that 'thorn' is: "a MESSENGER OF SATAN, to torment me." This is not a physical sickness thing here. It is an emotional thing, an annoyance. "Flesh", "sarx" in the Greek, does mean physical skin and bone. BUT it ALSO means "human nature" and 'nature' refers to the thoughts and emotions of a person. Messengers are angels...demonic or heavenly. Paul is saying that there was an evil entity that was annoying him, tormenting him and he was asking God to send it away from him and God told him no because it would humble him and keep him from stepping into being prideful. As long as he had to fight against this evil presence, Paul could not ever say or even think that he had 'arrived' and was above reproach.
I prayed. I asked the Lord to take away my pain and struggles. And do you think that, even now, they are gone? Most likely not because you have not been taught HOW to apply what Christ has already finished. When you ASK HIM to do what He has already made the provision for, you are taking the authority He gave to YOU to use against all pain, sickness, disease, torment and all the rest of it. Could it be....let this occur to you right now, that you have remained with your suffering until now so that NOW you can begin to learn and overcome and then share with and teach others to do the same? I mean really, would that not be an awesome thing?
I have walked in faith in MANY things when God has led me. I have given Him all of me, to use as He will. And when I pray for Him to take this away from me, He says, "Not yet." Right. that was then and now is now. NOW is the Time to step into all of these things that, right now, seem a bit 'out there'. But it only unfamiliar to you because Satan has done his utmost to make sure you never learned the spiritual truths that can set you free. UNTIL NOW!!
God isn't a soda machine: When we put prayers in, He isn't obliged to give us what we want. He is not obligated to give us OUR will, but He IS obligated to give us HIS will. And WHEN WE PRAY ACCORDING TO HIS WILL He answers every time. God isn't santa: He doesn't exist to fill our wish list. True. Rather, WE exist to fulfill HIS wish list...as it were. I've learned that God loves us, more than we can possibly know. He wants relationship with us. And he can take what was meant for evil and turn it to good. He can and He does. But most often that entails that WE learn HIS ways and so can do things HIS way, in His authority, wisdom, understanding AND POWER.
I wish, Maggie, that you had more to say directly from the word of God, and I don't mean more barely-applicable one-liners. IF you really know scripture, you should be able to recall the verses I've referenced without me having to spend lots of time finding and listing them. I'm really good at knowing WHAT the word says, but WHERE is a different story. It's not too different than knowing where your friend lives, but you don't know the address.
TIF, I'm almost twice your age. I've got a degree in Practical Ministry. I'm certified in Deliverance, Spiritual Warfare and Prophetic ministries. I am a Certified Pastor, working on getting licensed. I do not tell you this to brag, but only to help you know that I'm not just talking out of any proverbial hat. I've studied all of this stuff. AND I have also lived with family members that have suffered, physically and mentally. I know what I'm talking about and that what I'm telling you is truth according to His written word. The question is: Will you take this and run with it and get free in Christ? Or will you dig in your heels and be offended (Jesus never took on offense BTW), and walk away from the truths that God is presenting to you and that the devil is hoping you will doubt and fear about and never step into. Because once you DO step into all that God has for you, there will be no stopping you. YOU will become a THREAT to the kingdom of darkness...which is JUST how God ordains it to be!
Maggie
I turned to God and put my faith in Him. And I STILL had flashbacks and nightmares. Hos 4:6
You have no idea what it is to hurt like that. You are right. While I've not suffered any sexual abuse I have had other types. And it is all the same root and cause. You have no compassion for people going through these things because, after all, it's their own faults. TIF it is because of my compassion that I say these things. Do you really believe that I relish your trauma? Never! But I'm giving you TOOLS and understanding about the kingdom of darkness and how it works against you/us at every turn! And I am not doing it to be mean or prideful or 'compassion-less' but so that you can choose to learn and step into the freedom that He died to give you!!
I want you to look at one passage:II Cor 12:7-10
Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Notice this. Paul didn't say, "I was given a thorn in my flesh so that I could go and have a faith healing session." He was give a thorn, and the Lord didn't take it from Him. Right, now re-read that verse CAREFULLY. We are told exactly what that 'thorn' is: "a MESSENGER OF SATAN, to torment me." This is not a physical sickness thing here. It is an emotional thing, an annoyance. "Flesh", "sarx" in the Greek, does mean physical skin and bone. BUT it ALSO means "human nature" and 'nature' refers to the thoughts and emotions of a person. Messengers are angels...demonic or heavenly. Paul is saying that there was an evil entity that was annoying him, tormenting him and he was asking God to send it away from him and God told him no because it would humble him and keep him from stepping into being prideful. As long as he had to fight against this evil presence, Paul could not ever say or even think that he had 'arrived' and was above reproach.
I prayed. I asked the Lord to take away my pain and struggles. And do you think that, even now, they are gone? Most likely not because you have not been taught HOW to apply what Christ has already finished. When you ASK HIM to do what He has already made the provision for, you are taking the authority He gave to YOU to use against all pain, sickness, disease, torment and all the rest of it. Could it be....let this occur to you right now, that you have remained with your suffering until now so that NOW you can begin to learn and overcome and then share with and teach others to do the same? I mean really, would that not be an awesome thing?
I have walked in faith in MANY things when God has led me. I have given Him all of me, to use as He will. And when I pray for Him to take this away from me, He says, "Not yet." Right. that was then and now is now. NOW is the Time to step into all of these things that, right now, seem a bit 'out there'. But it only unfamiliar to you because Satan has done his utmost to make sure you never learned the spiritual truths that can set you free. UNTIL NOW!!
God isn't a soda machine: When we put prayers in, He isn't obliged to give us what we want. He is not obligated to give us OUR will, but He IS obligated to give us HIS will. And WHEN WE PRAY ACCORDING TO HIS WILL He answers every time. God isn't santa: He doesn't exist to fill our wish list. True. Rather, WE exist to fulfill HIS wish list...as it were. I've learned that God loves us, more than we can possibly know. He wants relationship with us. And he can take what was meant for evil and turn it to good. He can and He does. But most often that entails that WE learn HIS ways and so can do things HIS way, in His authority, wisdom, understanding AND POWER.
I wish, Maggie, that you had more to say directly from the word of God, and I don't mean more barely-applicable one-liners. IF you really know scripture, you should be able to recall the verses I've referenced without me having to spend lots of time finding and listing them. I'm really good at knowing WHAT the word says, but WHERE is a different story. It's not too different than knowing where your friend lives, but you don't know the address.
TIF, I'm almost twice your age. I've got a degree in Practical Ministry. I'm certified in Deliverance, Spiritual Warfare and Prophetic ministries. I am a Certified Pastor, working on getting licensed. I do not tell you this to brag, but only to help you know that I'm not just talking out of any proverbial hat. I've studied all of this stuff. AND I have also lived with family members that have suffered, physically and mentally. I know what I'm talking about and that what I'm telling you is truth according to His written word. The question is: Will you take this and run with it and get free in Christ? Or will you dig in your heels and be offended (Jesus never took on offense BTW), and walk away from the truths that God is presenting to you and that the devil is hoping you will doubt and fear about and never step into. Because once you DO step into all that God has for you, there will be no stopping you. YOU will become a THREAT to the kingdom of darkness...which is JUST how God ordains it to be!
Maggie
M
MaggieMye
Guest
TIF: I am blessed to hear that you have receive healing to the point of 40+ hours of work per week. 40 IS enough, though, isnt' it? LOL
It is my hope and desire that you receive encouragement and revelation from what I've posted.
Maggie
It is my hope and desire that you receive encouragement and revelation from what I've posted.
Maggie
A
AnandaHya
Guest
Hi Tif I think what the pastor said to you is truly a reflection of God's love that we should all remember. Praise God that He healed you and you are able to function and share your testimony with us.
I don't want to twist your words or misuse them but I think these words are worth repeating and remembering. Thanks for sharing them. Remember always that "God loves you and He is going to make you whole"!
I don't want to twist your words or misuse them but I think these words are worth repeating and remembering. Thanks for sharing them. Remember always that "God loves you and He is going to make you whole"!
T
tif
Guest
Maggie: After an 11-hour workday, at 12 AM, I do not have the time or energy to discuss scripture to the point I wanted to. As I said, I replied to what I could. I don't live to argue the details, and I hope that you can respect that not every person has lived the same experiences as you.
Ananda: Thank you so, so much. Some people don't understand that God truly speaks to people, here and now. And He's told me, "not yet," but I know that I will be healed someday, here on this earth. Love you.
Ananda: Thank you so, so much. Some people don't understand that God truly speaks to people, here and now. And He's told me, "not yet," but I know that I will be healed someday, here on this earth.
Love you.
M
MaggieMye
Guest
TIF. GOD NEVER says I will heal you 'Later'. He never says "Not Yet." Where is that in the Bible? It is not there! Whenever someone asked Jesus to heal He did so immediately. Only with the exception of Lazarus who died did Jesus wait. And THAT was so that He, Jesus, could manifest the glory of God by raising him from the dead and then the people would believe. God is a God of YES and AMEN, not a god of "No", "Not Yet", or "Later". What kind of father, supposedly loving, would not bring comfort to his child who is in pain?? When we ask for healing, we are asking Him to do what He has already DONE. What He wants us to ask is "What must I do so that I can walk in wholeness and divine health that You ordained for me from the beginning of creation?" It is OUR responsibility to appropriate what He has already done! When we are in a constant mode of worship and thanksgiving for Who He IS and what He had already done; when we SPEAK HIS WILL over our lives (it IS His will that we be healthy and whole), when we take authority and break off the generational curses* and command the unclean spirits to leave and not return and command our hearts and souls to line up with the will of God and ask Holy Spirit to seal it in and over us, THEN WE RECEIVE our healing/answers to prayer.
There is a right way and a wrong way to pray. That is why the disciples ASKED Jesus to TEACH them HOW to Pray. And He gave them the Lords prayer. Study it.
And just so you know....almost everyone on this website has busy lives and gets tired. Having long days and being tired is no excuse for not digging into scripture and learning about the ways of the Lord. On the contrary....that excuse is exactly what the devil sets a person up for because it keeps a person from spirituallly growing.
*If you truly desire to walk in what God has for you and want to learn about how to break off curses of all kinds, let me know. It really is very simple. You HAVE spiritual power, but as of yet, you do NOT know how to use it.
Also...get and read H.A. Maxwell Whyte's book, "The Power of the Blood". It changed my life!
Maggie
There is a right way and a wrong way to pray. That is why the disciples ASKED Jesus to TEACH them HOW to Pray. And He gave them the Lords prayer. Study it.
And just so you know....almost everyone on this website has busy lives and gets tired. Having long days and being tired is no excuse for not digging into scripture and learning about the ways of the Lord. On the contrary....that excuse is exactly what the devil sets a person up for because it keeps a person from spirituallly growing.
*If you truly desire to walk in what God has for you and want to learn about how to break off curses of all kinds, let me know. It really is very simple. You HAVE spiritual power, but as of yet, you do NOT know how to use it.
Also...get and read H.A. Maxwell Whyte's book, "The Power of the Blood". It changed my life!
Maggie
A
AnandaHya
Guest
Maggie, You know nothing of the girl and if you read her words and LISTENED you would know God has taught and is teaching her how to fight the darkness.
Her faith and healing has been wonderful to read about and hear. I for one praise God for all He has done in her life and in the lives she touches with the people she works with IN the MENTAL HEALTH FIELD. I'm sorry but I'm not sure if you noticed she posted that she actually worked with mental health patients in her posts.
You think Maggie you are wise and understand so much more than her, but I ask you to take a step back and pray about these verses from the Bible and perhaps you will understand when I say your post have some very spiritually dangerous tendencies embedded in them. There are lies that need to be weeded out.
For example not all disease are based on the person's spiritual depravity. Jesus died for the sins of the world sometimes people suffer because of that fact as well. They suffer not because anything they or their family did but because we live in a sin filled world.
I have friend who is confined in a wheelchair and her brother suffers from the same disease. They never complain and are wonderful witnesses to Jesus for they love Him with their whole hearts. They were raised Christian and not once have I ever heard them blame God or sin for their physical condition. Their faith and love for Christ is truly aweinspiring. They have cerberal palsy and have faith that when they die and God calls the saints back at resurrection they will be healed and be given perfect bodies.
Do they expect healing in this life time? (no they praise God every day for the many blessing He does give them and look to help other to know and love Christ)
Would you promise them if they had more faith (which I don't think is possible) they would be healed? would you claim they were not healed because of their lack of faith?
Do you see were this line of thinking is wrong and hurtful to people who actually suffer and have problems?
Don't you see this line of thinking is what made some people tell a grieving couple who just lost their child. that the child died because the parents lacked faith that God would heal them. Someone posted this story on the forum board a few months ago.
It is wrong and saddens my heart that you believe so strongly in something so unbiblical.
sometimes God does say wait. sometimes God says you must die but have hope for God will reward you upon ressurection and final judgment.
I pray everyone has a blessed day and if you feel the need to go see a doctor, GO.
Medicine is not demonic and some doctors are Christians who have been given the spiritual gift of knowledge and healing. Most I know will pray with you, all mine will if I ask them to.
Revelations 2
10 ]Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”’
Her faith and healing has been wonderful to read about and hear. I for one praise God for all He has done in her life and in the lives she touches with the people she works with IN the MENTAL HEALTH FIELD. I'm sorry but I'm not sure if you noticed she posted that she actually worked with mental health patients in her posts.
You think Maggie you are wise and understand so much more than her, but I ask you to take a step back and pray about these verses from the Bible and perhaps you will understand when I say your post have some very spiritually dangerous tendencies embedded in them. There are lies that need to be weeded out.
For example not all disease are based on the person's spiritual depravity. Jesus died for the sins of the world sometimes people suffer because of that fact as well. They suffer not because anything they or their family did but because we live in a sin filled world.
I have friend who is confined in a wheelchair and her brother suffers from the same disease. They never complain and are wonderful witnesses to Jesus for they love Him with their whole hearts. They were raised Christian and not once have I ever heard them blame God or sin for their physical condition. Their faith and love for Christ is truly aweinspiring. They have cerberal palsy and have faith that when they die and God calls the saints back at resurrection they will be healed and be given perfect bodies.
Do they expect healing in this life time? (no they praise God every day for the many blessing He does give them and look to help other to know and love Christ)
Would you promise them if they had more faith (which I don't think is possible) they would be healed? would you claim they were not healed because of their lack of faith?
Do you see were this line of thinking is wrong and hurtful to people who actually suffer and have problems?
Don't you see this line of thinking is what made some people tell a grieving couple who just lost their child. that the child died because the parents lacked faith that God would heal them. Someone posted this story on the forum board a few months ago.
It is wrong and saddens my heart that you believe so strongly in something so unbiblical.
sometimes God does say wait. sometimes God says you must die but have hope for God will reward you upon ressurection and final judgment.
I pray everyone has a blessed day and if you feel the need to go see a doctor, GO.
Medicine is not demonic and some doctors are Christians who have been given the spiritual gift of knowledge and healing. Most I know will pray with you, all mine will if I ask them to.
Revelations 2
10 ]Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”’
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V
vahn
Guest
Yes, it is Satan's evil plan to make us believe that him and his demonic forces are at work in peoples lives with mental disorders./end sarcasm
Medication isn't bad if it is regulated. Who are you to say what Maggie believes is false? If it's not from God, where does it come from? If its of the world, then its from Satan.
M
MaggieMye
Guest
!
Maggie, You know nothing of the girl and if you read her words and LISTENED you would know God has taught and is teaching her how to fight the darkness. I know. I saw that. But there is nothing wrong in teaching her MORE!
Her faith and healing has been wonderful to read about and hear. I for one praise God for all He has done in her life and in the lives she touches with the people she works with IN the MENTAL HEALTH FIELD. Where she works is irrelevant to her own personal condition. I'm sorry but I'm not sure if you noticed she posted that she actually worked with mental health patients in her posts. Yes, but what is the point? Everyone has issues that they need to be free of. Her JOB is not the issue here.
You think Maggie you are wise and understand so much more than her, but I ask you to take a step back and pray about these verses from the Bible and perhaps you will understand when I say your post have some very spiritually dangerous tendencies embedded in them. Truth and the reality of the spiritual realm DOES scare people that do not study to understand His ways. It IS scary for anyone to consider the UNKNOWN. BUT GOD is NOW revealing these things to us so that we can BECOME the pure and holy Bride of Christ! He is NOT coming back for a bride that is sick, diseased or mentally ill!!! There are lies that need to be weeded out. Show me ONE lie that I posted.
For example not all disease are based on the person's spiritual depravity. I did not say 'depravity" I said LACK OF KNOWLEGE. Jesus died for the sins of the world sometimes people suffer because of that fact as well. And where is that in scripture?? They suffer not because anything they or their family did but because we live in a sin filled world. That is a stinkin-thinkin lie of the enemy. The ONLY thing we MUST endure is to die a physical death. Moses was never sick. Neither was Abraham, the Friend of God, nor David, nor Elijah or Elisha. Where do we read in the OT that ANY of the men who walked righteously were sick? We don't. But they DID all die.
I have friend who is confined in a wheelchair and her brother suffers from the same disease. This shows that there is a GENERATIONAL CURSE in their family line. This curse does NOT negate their salvation. They never complain and are wonderful witnesses to Jesus for they love Him with their whole hearts. But how much GREATER would their testimony be if they were to use their authority in Christ and step into What Christ Died To Afford Us??? Think about the testimony that WILL come from them when they tell the devil "NO MORE FROM YOU!" and are freed from their wheel chairs forever! THAT is a testimony that will cause hundreds, maybe thousands to become members of the kingdom of heaven!!! They were raised Christian and not once have I ever heard them blame God or sin for their physical condition. Well, that's good because GOD did NOT CAUSE their physical condition and it is HIS desire that they are healed.Their faith and love for Christ is truly awe inspiring. They have cerberal palsy this is a GENETIC defect...genetic as in GENERATIONAL. and have faith that when they die and God calls the saints back at resurrection they will be healed and be given perfect bodies. But how much better for everyone if they would get educated about HOW the spiritual realm functions so that they could step into their TRUE IDENTITY IN CHRIST JESUS? Their current condition is simply an awesome testimony waiting to happen...one that will bring people to their knees and testify of the POWER of the Name of Jesus Christ!
Do they expect healing in this life time? (no they praise God every day for the many blessing He does give them and look to help other to know and love Christ) Why DON'T they expect healing in this lifetime?? That is what Christ shed His blood for!! It is a lie of the enemy that tells us that we have to wait til we're dead to be healed! That is not the power of Christ! He did not make all those He healed while on the earth DIE first! NO. He healed them so that they could participate in spreading the Gospel of His Kingdom.
Would you promise them if they had more faith (which I don't think is possible) they would be healed? would you claim they were not healed because of their lack of faith? The amount of faith is not the issue here. It never was. A new believer can have read 5 chapters of the Bible and he goes and DOES the Word of God that he has read and knows. THAT is GREAT FAITH.
On the other hand, a believer of 20 or 30 years can have read the whole bible several times, but does not DO the word...he does not DO Jesus. He is of little faith. Does he believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Probably! But then again, so does Satan. And HE is NOT going to spend eternity with the Father.
No, it is not about the amount of faith, for one either believes or he does not. That simple. What it IS about is KNOWLEDGE. Hos 4:6 tells us that people PERISH for LACK of Knowledge. And there are FIVE other verses that reinforce that without knowledge of God and His ways and the enemy and his ways, people are duped, tricked, deceived, destroyed, infirmed, and killed without them ever fulfilling the destiny plan that God had for them.
Do you see were this line of thinking is wrong and hurtful to people who actually suffer and have problems? Do YOU see where my line of 'thinking', my line of teaching has the power to set people free from conditions that they enemy attacked them with?
Don't you see this line of thinking is what made some people tell a grieving couple who just lost their child. that the child died because the parents lacked faith that God would heal them. Someone posted this story on the forum board a few months ago. Anandhya, I have NEVER, EVER accused anyone of having too little faith. Not once. And personally, any person that tells anyone that they have too little faith for ANY reason, in my book, does not KNOW the Character of God. What is lacking, as I HAVE said repeatedly is knowledge. When Adam ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good AND EVIL, he gave the whole human race ACCESS to knowledge about the spiritual realm. Do you know WHY God had to evict Adam and Eve from the Garden? It was so that they would not, in their sinful state, eat of the Tree of Life and be forced to FOREVER live, separated from Him. These truths are seldom taught from the pulpit, but consider how important they are!
It is wrong and saddens my heart that you believe so strongly in something so unbiblical. Ask God to open your the eyes of your understanding (Eph 1 or 3, I forget which). What I am saying IS BIBLICAL. It is truth and life-giving power to walk in your true identity of an overcomer.
sometimes God does say wait. Yes, He does say 'wait'. But He never says wait to healing. He says 'wait' when it comes to our DOING something, not receiving what He paid for us to have....HAVE not Get as in the future. sometimes God says you must die but have hope for God will reward you upon ressurection and final judgment. We are told only to die to our flesh and that is so that we can walk in the Spirit. Nowhere in scripture will you find that God tells us that we have to wait for some application of the shed blood until after we are dead. What good is the shed blood to a dead person? NONE. What Christ did was so that we could LIVE lives full of spiritual fruit, full of wholeness and completeness. The deception that we have to wait to be healed until after we are dead is NOT an early church teaching!! They understood that they were to walk in divine health WHILE LIVING!
Medicine is not demonic Going to Drs. is what the WORLD teaches people to do. Those that KNOW God and His ways and know their identity in Christ and know their authority and know HOW to pray, do not need pharmakiea and some doctors are Christians who have been given the spiritual gift of knowledge and healing. IF the person had the spiritual gifts of word of knowledge and Healing, they would not have had to go to medical school to get some degree. They could and would DO the Word of God concerning the sick. but again...that requires that one pursue the KNOWLEDGE of God's ways so as to NOT be in LACK.
* Read the verses below to see what God has to say about those that overcome. Consider that the opposite will happen to those that do not overcome. Consider that Satan does believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but will not see heaven. We are saved by our faith. Yet faith without works is not faith at all/dead. We truly only HAVE faith if it is faith/belief that drives us to DO the Works or Christ. This is NOT to say we are saved by works, for we are not. But the Word says that IF YOU HAVE FAITH, YOU WILL DO THE WORKS OF GOD. So if you are not DOING the works of God because of your zeal of faith, do you really believe?
Revelation 2:26
Revelation 2:25-27
Revelation 3:4-6
Revelation 3:11-13
Maggie, You know nothing of the girl and if you read her words and LISTENED you would know God has taught and is teaching her how to fight the darkness. I know. I saw that. But there is nothing wrong in teaching her MORE!
Her faith and healing has been wonderful to read about and hear. I for one praise God for all He has done in her life and in the lives she touches with the people she works with IN the MENTAL HEALTH FIELD. Where she works is irrelevant to her own personal condition. I'm sorry but I'm not sure if you noticed she posted that she actually worked with mental health patients in her posts. Yes, but what is the point? Everyone has issues that they need to be free of. Her JOB is not the issue here.
You think Maggie you are wise and understand so much more than her, but I ask you to take a step back and pray about these verses from the Bible and perhaps you will understand when I say your post have some very spiritually dangerous tendencies embedded in them. Truth and the reality of the spiritual realm DOES scare people that do not study to understand His ways. It IS scary for anyone to consider the UNKNOWN. BUT GOD is NOW revealing these things to us so that we can BECOME the pure and holy Bride of Christ! He is NOT coming back for a bride that is sick, diseased or mentally ill!!! There are lies that need to be weeded out. Show me ONE lie that I posted.
For example not all disease are based on the person's spiritual depravity. I did not say 'depravity" I said LACK OF KNOWLEGE. Jesus died for the sins of the world sometimes people suffer because of that fact as well. And where is that in scripture?? They suffer not because anything they or their family did but because we live in a sin filled world. That is a stinkin-thinkin lie of the enemy. The ONLY thing we MUST endure is to die a physical death. Moses was never sick. Neither was Abraham, the Friend of God, nor David, nor Elijah or Elisha. Where do we read in the OT that ANY of the men who walked righteously were sick? We don't. But they DID all die.
When we become born again and take on the NATURE of CHRIST and gain access to all that He is and was and did and does, and become the OVERCOMER* that we are to be, we do NOT NOT NOT NOT have to tolerate sickness and disease in our bodies. We do not have to tolerate the workings of the enemy in our bodies. ONLY if a righteous person does not have the biblical knowledge of their identity in Christ and their authority and how it all works, will they ever have to tolerate (look up that word in the dictionary) living life in LESS than what God ordained.
The whole purpose of Christ shedding His blood for us was so that we could TAKE BACK FROM THE ENEMY WHAT HE STOLE IN THE GARDEN.
The whole purpose of Christ shedding His blood for us was so that we could TAKE BACK FROM THE ENEMY WHAT HE STOLE IN THE GARDEN.
I have friend who is confined in a wheelchair and her brother suffers from the same disease. This shows that there is a GENERATIONAL CURSE in their family line. This curse does NOT negate their salvation. They never complain and are wonderful witnesses to Jesus for they love Him with their whole hearts. But how much GREATER would their testimony be if they were to use their authority in Christ and step into What Christ Died To Afford Us??? Think about the testimony that WILL come from them when they tell the devil "NO MORE FROM YOU!" and are freed from their wheel chairs forever! THAT is a testimony that will cause hundreds, maybe thousands to become members of the kingdom of heaven!!! They were raised Christian and not once have I ever heard them blame God or sin for their physical condition. Well, that's good because GOD did NOT CAUSE their physical condition and it is HIS desire that they are healed.Their faith and love for Christ is truly awe inspiring. They have cerberal palsy this is a GENETIC defect...genetic as in GENERATIONAL. and have faith that when they die and God calls the saints back at resurrection they will be healed and be given perfect bodies. But how much better for everyone if they would get educated about HOW the spiritual realm functions so that they could step into their TRUE IDENTITY IN CHRIST JESUS? Their current condition is simply an awesome testimony waiting to happen...one that will bring people to their knees and testify of the POWER of the Name of Jesus Christ!
Do they expect healing in this life time? (no they praise God every day for the many blessing He does give them and look to help other to know and love Christ) Why DON'T they expect healing in this lifetime?? That is what Christ shed His blood for!! It is a lie of the enemy that tells us that we have to wait til we're dead to be healed! That is not the power of Christ! He did not make all those He healed while on the earth DIE first! NO. He healed them so that they could participate in spreading the Gospel of His Kingdom.
Would you promise them if they had more faith (which I don't think is possible) they would be healed? would you claim they were not healed because of their lack of faith? The amount of faith is not the issue here. It never was. A new believer can have read 5 chapters of the Bible and he goes and DOES the Word of God that he has read and knows. THAT is GREAT FAITH.
On the other hand, a believer of 20 or 30 years can have read the whole bible several times, but does not DO the word...he does not DO Jesus. He is of little faith. Does he believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Probably! But then again, so does Satan. And HE is NOT going to spend eternity with the Father.
No, it is not about the amount of faith, for one either believes or he does not. That simple. What it IS about is KNOWLEDGE. Hos 4:6 tells us that people PERISH for LACK of Knowledge. And there are FIVE other verses that reinforce that without knowledge of God and His ways and the enemy and his ways, people are duped, tricked, deceived, destroyed, infirmed, and killed without them ever fulfilling the destiny plan that God had for them.
Do you see were this line of thinking is wrong and hurtful to people who actually suffer and have problems? Do YOU see where my line of 'thinking', my line of teaching has the power to set people free from conditions that they enemy attacked them with?
Don't you see this line of thinking is what made some people tell a grieving couple who just lost their child. that the child died because the parents lacked faith that God would heal them. Someone posted this story on the forum board a few months ago. Anandhya, I have NEVER, EVER accused anyone of having too little faith. Not once. And personally, any person that tells anyone that they have too little faith for ANY reason, in my book, does not KNOW the Character of God. What is lacking, as I HAVE said repeatedly is knowledge. When Adam ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good AND EVIL, he gave the whole human race ACCESS to knowledge about the spiritual realm. Do you know WHY God had to evict Adam and Eve from the Garden? It was so that they would not, in their sinful state, eat of the Tree of Life and be forced to FOREVER live, separated from Him. These truths are seldom taught from the pulpit, but consider how important they are!
It is wrong and saddens my heart that you believe so strongly in something so unbiblical. Ask God to open your the eyes of your understanding (Eph 1 or 3, I forget which). What I am saying IS BIBLICAL. It is truth and life-giving power to walk in your true identity of an overcomer.
sometimes God does say wait. Yes, He does say 'wait'. But He never says wait to healing. He says 'wait' when it comes to our DOING something, not receiving what He paid for us to have....HAVE not Get as in the future. sometimes God says you must die but have hope for God will reward you upon ressurection and final judgment. We are told only to die to our flesh and that is so that we can walk in the Spirit. Nowhere in scripture will you find that God tells us that we have to wait for some application of the shed blood until after we are dead. What good is the shed blood to a dead person? NONE. What Christ did was so that we could LIVE lives full of spiritual fruit, full of wholeness and completeness. The deception that we have to wait to be healed until after we are dead is NOT an early church teaching!! They understood that they were to walk in divine health WHILE LIVING!
Medicine is not demonic Going to Drs. is what the WORLD teaches people to do. Those that KNOW God and His ways and know their identity in Christ and know their authority and know HOW to pray, do not need pharmakiea and some doctors are Christians who have been given the spiritual gift of knowledge and healing. IF the person had the spiritual gifts of word of knowledge and Healing, they would not have had to go to medical school to get some degree. They could and would DO the Word of God concerning the sick. but again...that requires that one pursue the KNOWLEDGE of God's ways so as to NOT be in LACK.
* Read the verses below to see what God has to say about those that overcome. Consider that the opposite will happen to those that do not overcome. Consider that Satan does believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but will not see heaven. We are saved by our faith. Yet faith without works is not faith at all/dead. We truly only HAVE faith if it is faith/belief that drives us to DO the Works or Christ. This is NOT to say we are saved by works, for we are not. But the Word says that IF YOU HAVE FAITH, YOU WILL DO THE WORKS OF GOD. So if you are not DOING the works of God because of your zeal of faith, do you really believe?
Revelation 2:26
Revelation 2:25-27
Revelation 3:4-6
Revelation 3:11-13