2 Corinthians 12 (Amplified Bible)

loveschild · Jun 13, 2011

7And to keep me from being puffed up and too much elated by the exceeding greatness (preeminence) of these revelations, there was given me a thorn ([a]a splinter) in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to rack and buffet and harass me, to keep me from being excessively exalted. [Job. 2:6.]

given me a thorn ([a]a splinter) in the flesh, a messenger of Satan

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That's the thorn....a messenger of Satan, a demon assigned to Paul to make trouble.

Scotth1960 · Jun 15, 2011

loveschild said:

It's not altogether clear from Scripture what this thorn in the flesh was, and what the words "a messenger of Satan" mean. It could have been a human being, not a demon.
It could have been someone who was always bothering Saint Paul and trying to criticize his ministry of Christ. Some people think it was a physical illness, a thorn in the flesh, a bodily disease that was troubling Paul. This is a secondary matter and it really isn't all that important that we have a clear understanding what this means. It's an obscure passage from St. Paul, and St. Peter warns us there are some things in St. Paul which we may not easily understand (2 Peter 3:14-16). God bless us, everyone.

Abiding · Jun 15, 2011

I think it was the demon of splinters :{

Deadflesh · Jun 15, 2011

Paul thought of this "thorn" as a gift. He knew the spiritual gifts he was given, and the secret thigns that Jesus revealed to him. He had a HIGH spiritual awareness..so in order for Paul to NOT become spirtually puffed up, and arrogant, and have pride rise up in him, GOD gave him this "thorn"

It never says what this thorn is, but it says Paul prayed for it to be taken from him, and then after Paul was thankfull for it. Granted Paul was also thankfull when people tried to kill him, and stoned him, and when he was arested and beaten...and God knows what else.( but paul never called those thigns thorns)

So it very well COULD have been a "Demon" in a sence as the forces of Darkness are AXES, they ARE the wrath of God, for dissobedience. Its chastisement to those being saved(like paul) and its judgement to those that harden there hearts agaisnt it.

Shall the axe boast over him who hews with it, or the saw magnify itself against him who wields it? As if a rod should wield him who lifts it, or as if a staff should lift him who is not wood! Isaiah 10:5

"I am the man who has seen affliction under the rod of his wrath;" Lamentations 3:11

"Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die." Proverbs 23:13

"Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him" Proverbs 13:24

"On the lips of the discerning, wisdom is found, But a rod is for the back of him who lacks understanding." Proverbs 10:13

"Your wrath lies heavily upon me; you have overwhelmed me with all your waves." psalm 88:7

"hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord." 1 Corinthians 5:5

The CHIDLREN of God WILL get chastised, corrected, reproved, "spanked", by The LORD for err ing from his WORD, and LAW (which is walkign in spirit) Those who truly DO belong to Jesus, WILL be chastised by the Rod.

The ROD is the forces of darkness. And if a "child" is dissobedient and without love for too long, The ROD, is also an AXE. and the AXE, which is weilded by GOD, chops down the tree that doesnt produce fruit.

If you are tried, but through a trial and a test, it is GOD puttign you through the fire, to hone you. TO make you sharper(spiritualy) and quicker and durable. The firery trials are there FOR YOU, not agaisnt you.

However The Blood of JESUS is the GRACE to keep from sinning IN those firey trials. If you Sin, you DO have an advocate to the father, who is ALSO JEsus, but if you DONT repent, you are now giving way to Sin, and the forces of darkness are now your LORD. And if THEY Are your LORD, then GOD will let them attack you, they have evidence agaisnt you now ( in The court of GOD) and they will acuse and berate, and break you...But GOD iss allowing it to make you humble...If you sinned, and then got away with it...that is Sparing the ROD...so why would GOD lay down somehtgn for YOU to do with YOUR shildren, and HE wouldnt do it with his.?

Anyway...long winded....YES a Christian can have demons.

NO, not EVERY affliction is becasue of SIN, God can and WILL bring about somthign in yourl ife based on prayers you have prayed. If you ever prayed fro humility...how else would GOD humble you but to break you? and soemtimes breaking is physical.

If you ever prayed to be stripped of the WORLD, or stripped of all flesh, HE WILL answer your request in HIS time, but sometimes they HURT, but its all for the better.

Anyway. Yes. A Christian most certainly can have demons. Or forces of darkness sent TO them to correct them and humble them, and get there focus BACK on JESUS and JESUS only.

-Jesus Bless you.

zone · Jun 15, 2011

Can Christians be demon-possessed?

by Matt Slick

No, Christians cannot be demon-possessed. Possession implies ownership, and Christians are not owned by the devil. Instead, we have been bought with a price, the blood of Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 6:20; 7:23). Also, a demon cannot dwell in the house of the Lord because of the surpassing greatness of God's glory and purity. As Christians, we are the house of God (Heb. 10:21; 1 Tim. 3:15) when we are indwelt by God when we receive Christ (John 14:23). Furthermore, the Bible says "Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world," (1 John 4:4). So, it would make no sense to affirm that demonic presence could actually inhabit a person who is also indwelt by God.

Furthermore, Jesus told a parable about casting demons out of someone that can shed some light here:

Matt. 12:43-45, “Now when the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places, seeking rest, and does not find it. 44 “Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came’; and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied, swept, and put in order. 45 “Then it goes, and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation.”

As you can see, when someone is possessed and the demon is then cast out, the unclean spirit tries to come back later. Notice that Jesus says that in this case the house is found unoccupied. This most probably means that a person is not a Christian since the house is empty; that is, he does not have the indwelling presence of God. An empty house allows other spirits to enter into this person and his condition is worse than it was before.

So, it seems clear in scripture that a Christian cannot be demon-possessed.

Abiding · Jun 15, 2011

then these must just be wood splinters in my hand and not demons.....thank goodness!

the term is used in the old testement look for words like pricks in my side and other words..same idea.

messenger means messenger.

Deadflesh · Jun 15, 2011

zone said:

IT actually implies LORDSHIP. If you don't obey JESUS then HE is not your LORD...somethign or someone else is. IF you are DISSOBEDIENT, then in that time of rebelion JESUS is no longer your LORD. if you truly belng to him HE WILL get you back..but it will be NEEDLESS suffering. We have repentance...but repentance is for when we GO ASTRAY...and since no man can coem to GOD of his own will...GOD needs to go after YOU..and he does that in a myriad of different ways...the MAIN being...he ROD. the Forces of Darkness.

Recognize how God uses the powers of darkness to serve His purposes. If you know this truth it will help you discern truth and if enemy strongholds may have been established in your heart. The devil gets way too much blame for the ills of this world when the source of those ills is our sin and practice of idolatry(which is putting ANYTHING above God...making ANYTHING LORD except JESUS).

When we do not obey God, God takes away the hedge that protected us. When we think we are being attacked by Satan, we are likely right but don’t yell at the devil, examine yourself and ask the Holy Spirit to show you where your heart really is. It may very well be God calling you to repentance and using the powers of darkness to bring that about. - Jesus bless you.

Understanding Our Enemy Truth In Scripture

VW · Jun 15, 2011

Paul asked God to remove this thorn 3 times. I believe that this thorn was a personal sin, something that Paul struggled with and asked God to deliver him from, just as Jesus taught us to pray, "deliver us from evil." God answered Paul that His grace was sufficient for him. The thought we must avoid is that grace is an excuse for sin that is not repented of. Paul obviously despised this sin, as he asked 3 times that it be removed.

How easy is it to become proud? How much sin is in your life? If we are in His presence, then His grace will keep us humble, because we will know our sin truly.

zone · Jun 15, 2011

Deadflesh said:

DF
you sound like you are in torment.

is Jesus such a cruel task master to have one mourning and fasting and fretting continually?

did you know Jesus and the disciples WORKED? they had jobs.

they attended weddings. they socialized. even with all the trouble.

i bet they laughed. walked and enjoyed the sunshine.

John 14:27
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

Philippians 4:4
Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!

2 Corinthains 6:10
Our hearts ache, but we always have joy. We are poor, but we give spiritual riches to others. We own nothing, and yet we have everything.

Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

Israel · Jun 15, 2011

Deadflesh said:

Paul thought of this "thorn" as a gift. He knew the spiritual gifts he was given, and the secret thigns that Jesus revealed to him. He had a HIGH spiritual awareness..so in order for Paul to NOT become spirtually puffed up, and arrogant, and have pride rise up in him, GOD gave him this "thorn"

It never says what this thorn is, but it says Paul prayed for it to be taken from him, and then after Paul was thankfull for it. Granted Paul was also thankfull when people tried to kill him, and stoned him, and when he was arested and beaten...and God knows what else.( but paul never called those thigns thorns)

So it very well COULD have been a "Demon" in a sence as the forces of Darkness are AXES, they ARE the wrath of God, for dissobedience. Its chastisement to those being saved(like paul) and its judgement to those that harden there hearts agaisnt it.

Shall the axe boast over him who hews with it, or the saw magnify itself against him who wields it? As if a rod should wield him who lifts it, or as if a staff should lift him who is not wood! Isaiah 10:5

"I am the man who has seen affliction under the rod of his wrath;" Lamentations 3:11

"Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die." Proverbs 23:13

"Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him" Proverbs 13:24

"On the lips of the discerning, wisdom is found, But a rod is for the back of him who lacks understanding." Proverbs 10:13

"Your wrath lies heavily upon me; you have overwhelmed me with all your waves." psalm 88:7

"hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord." 1 Corinthians 5:5

The CHIDLREN of God WILL get chastised, corrected, reproved, "spanked", by The LORD for err ing from his WORD, and LAW (which is walkign in spirit) Those who truly DO belong to Jesus, WILL be chastised by the Rod.

The ROD is the forces of darkness. And if a "child" is dissobedient and without love for too long, The ROD, is also an AXE. and the AXE, which is weilded by GOD, chops down the tree that doesnt produce fruit.

If you are tried, but through a trial and a test, it is GOD puttign you through the fire, to hone you. TO make you sharper(spiritualy) and quicker and durable. The firery trials are there FOR YOU, not agaisnt you.

However The Blood of JESUS is the GRACE to keep from sinning IN those firey trials. If you Sin, you DO have an advocate to the father, who is ALSO JEsus, but if you DONT repent, you are now giving way to Sin, and the forces of darkness are now your LORD. And if THEY Are your LORD, then GOD will let them attack you, they have evidence agaisnt you now ( in The court of GOD) and they will acuse and berate, and break you...But GOD iss allowing it to make you humble...If you sinned, and then got away with it...that is Sparing the ROD...so why would GOD lay down somehtgn for YOU to do with YOUR shildren, and HE wouldnt do it with his.?

Anyway...long winded....YES a Christian can have demons.

NO, not EVERY affliction is becasue of SIN, God can and WILL bring about somthign in yourl ife based on prayers you have prayed. If you ever prayed fro humility...how else would GOD humble you but to break you? and soemtimes breaking is physical.

If you ever prayed to be stripped of the WORLD, or stripped of all flesh, HE WILL answer your request in HIS time, but sometimes they HURT, but its all for the better.

Anyway. Yes. A Christian most certainly can have demons. Or forces of darkness sent TO them to correct them and humble them, and get there focus BACK on JESUS and JESUS only.

-Jesus Bless you.

1 Timothy 1:18-20

18This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
19Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: 20Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Nice post.

Israel · Jun 16, 2011

Israel said:

Please understand and harden not your hearts. If it is God's will to have ALL men be saved and come to a KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, and Hymenaeus and Alexander were delivered unto Satan SO THAT THEY MAY LEARN... I REPEAT AGAIN..... LEARN NOT TO BLASPHEME, how did Satan teach them this valuable lesson?

1 Corinthians 5:5

5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Hymenaeus and Alexander learned not to blaspheme by the DESTRUCTION OF THEIR FLESH.

One way or another all men indeed come to a knowledge of the truth when ALL who come to Christ, He will in no wise cast out. ALL MEN ARE SAVED.

loveschild · Jun 16, 2011

Anyone who is obedient to God and preaching the gospel has demons assigned to them to try and stop them from doing the will of God.

pickles · Jun 16, 2011

What ever this thorn was, it allowed Paul to be always aware of his own weakness.
It was this weakness that brought Paul to see that for when I am weak, it is then I am strong.
Because Paul saw in Jesus, that when one lives in their own streangth, they can fall to pride.
But when one is weak, one sees and recieves all that is the presance and power of God to be in place of this weakness, knowing that all is
from Jesus Christ Our Lord.

As to the demons in one that is in Jesus.
When Jesus aproached a man filled with demons, they spoke saying to Jesus, " what have you Lord to do with us?"
Simply because Jesus had no sin, wether in act, or injury from another to Him. So these demons had no place to take hold or place in Jesus.
This is why Jesus often said, your sins are forgiven, as it removed in those the place where evil would take hold.
We do know as well though, as spoken in John, that one can have an ailment simply for the glory of God.
As in the blind man Jesus healed, Jesus spoke to this being not of sin either of His parents, or the blind man's own sin, but to bring glory to God!

in Jesus, God bless.
pickles

Laodicea · Jun 16, 2011

2 Corinthians 12:5-10
(5) Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
(6) For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
(7) And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
(8) For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
(9) And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
(10) Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

AnandaHya · Jun 16, 2011

I think if we are truthful we all have weakness that only through the grace of God are we able to overcome. that way we know it is GOD who does the work and not ourselves.
so none may boast but instead give all glory to GOD.

VW · Jun 16, 2011

loveschild said:

This is not true. It is not even scriptural.

Abiding · Jun 16, 2011

But i agree anyone trying to make good funiture gets a splinter...to keep him from boasting id presume?

zone · Jun 16, 2011

loveschild said:

PROVE THIS PLEASE.

selenah · Jun 16, 2011

Abiding said:

Haha that's funny

perplexus · Jun 16, 2011

she speak about herself .. it's a protestant prove

2 Corinthians 12 (Amplified Bible)

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