Grace - What is it . . . exactly?

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justbyfaith

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#21
I would say that the change of heart that is produced by God's Spirit has to do with the fact that the law is written on the heart and mind (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).

As we live according to the love that is shed abroad in our heart by the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5), the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4).

As we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us for our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). Thus, when we bear the fruit of the Spirit and walk according to the Spirit, we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven (see also Romans 8:4).

This is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

For it is not obtained by seeking to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but rather is the natural outcropping of faith in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:14, Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 8:4).
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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#22
Feb 20, 2021
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#22
justbyfaith said:
I would say that the change of heart that is produced by God's Spirit has to do with the fact that the law is written on the heart and mind (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).

As we live according to the love that is shed abroad in our heart by the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5), the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4).

As we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us for our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). Thus, when we bear the fruit of the Spirit and walk according to the Spirit, we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven (see also Romans 8:4).

This is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

For it is not obtained by seeking to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but rather is the natural outcropping of faith in Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:14, Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 8:4).
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Okie dokie
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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#23
Jan 10, 2019
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#23
2ndTimothyGroup said:
That made me chuckle out loud. :D
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I didn't mean it to be funny at all. Giving people time to repent before pouring wrath out on them is grace.

2ndTimothyGroup said:
There may be some "graces" that don't lead to Eternal Life, but if we receive any of these "graces," yet we go to hell, what good is that grace? I like to think of what Christ said, which is that He doesn't cast His Pearls upon pigs.

The ultimate Grace is the one that removes the Curse of the Lord from our hearts so that we might live forever (with Him).

Exodus 33:19 KJV - "And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."
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God has been graicious to all when he made all his goodness pass before all mankind in the person of our Lord Jesus.

2ndTimothyGroup said:
What is the description and explanation of this Grace?

Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV - "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

What is the fulfillment of this Grace?

Colossians 2:11-15 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

This is Spiritual Grace . . . something that virtually all pastors seem to intentionally ignore (or they remain Spiritually blinded by the Lord Himself).

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."
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God has chosen those who repent and believe Jesus. If the grace our Savior displayed while being horribly treated doesn't cause sinners to repent, nothing will.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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#24
Feb 20, 2021
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#24
Journeyman said:
God has chosen those who repent and believe Jesus.
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Do you believe that a person can Turn and Repent if they are under the Curse of the Lord? Or, is it possible that it is Christ who Enables a person to Repent?

Romans 8:8 NLT - "That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God."

John 15:16 NLT - "You didn't choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name."
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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#25
Jan 10, 2019
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#25
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Do you believe that a person can Turn and Repent if they are under the Curse of the Lord?
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I did.

2ndTimothyGroup said:
Or, is it possible that it is Christ who Enables a person to Repent?
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He enables people who are sorry for their sins to repent if they really want the opportunity.

2ndTimothyGroup said:
Romans 8:8 NLT - "That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God."
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Yes that's right. People who refuse to repent can never please God.

2ndTimothyGroup said:
John 15:16 NLT - "You didn't choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name."
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Exactly. He chose faithful men. Read the preceding 15 verses and to know how faithful they were, read vss.17-21.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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#26
Feb 20, 2021
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#26
Journeyman said:
I did.

He enables people who are sorry for their sins to repent if they really want the opportunity.


Yes that's right. People who refuse to repent can never please God.


Exactly. He chose faithful men. Read the preceding 15 verses and to know how faithful they were, read vss.17-21.
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Okie doke.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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#28
Journeyman said:
So you understand that the stronger One turned his cheek, instead of destroying people who defamed him, yes? 😊
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I'm very sorry my friend . . . I don't follow your thoughts. Can you rephrase?

Edit - I think I "got it." :) But still, maybe rephrase a tad? :D
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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2ndTimothyGroup said:
I'm very sorry my friend . . . I don't follow your thoughts. Can you rephrase?

Edit - I think I "got it." :) But still, maybe rephrase a tad? :D
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You understand our Creator appeared as one of us, to show how mankind regarded him, right?,

the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me. Psa.69:9

You understand that our sweet Lord Jesus is saying people who hated God, hated him, don't you?
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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#30
Journeyman said:
You understand our Creator appeared as one of us, to show how mankind regarded him, right?,

the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me. Psa.69:9

You understand that our sweet Lord Jesus is saying people who hated God, hated him, don't you?
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Yes. But I don't understand what your point is. It's ok . . . you can be clear.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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#31
Jan 10, 2019
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#31
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Yes. But I don't understand what your point is. It's ok . . . you can be clear.
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My point is in my first post in this thread and again, I was being deadly serious about how Jesus followed the example of his Father, not calling sinners into judgement at that time, even though he was miserably abused. You understand the grace of God, don't you?
 
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peldom10

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#32
May 22, 2020
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#32
Journeyman said:
My point is in my first post in this thread and again, I was being deadly serious about how Jesus followed the example of his Father, not calling sinners into judgement at that time, even though he was miserably abused. You understand the grace of God, don't you?
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Your point is significant ...If Christ called in His abusers then He would have had to stop the process of His sacrifice which was for the purpose of establishing ...grace...which is the condition established by our father for forgiveness. That would have interfered in God's assignment for Him. Thus His immediate application of judgement could not have been possible.
 
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Gideon300

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#33
Mar 18, 2021
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#33
2ndTimothyGroup said:
2 Corinthians 12:9 NKJV - "And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

Is it possible that this "Grace" could be referencing the Holy Operation of Christ?

Colossians 2:11-12 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

The Lord stated clearly that He would give His True Children New Hearts and Spirits [so that] we would obey and worship the Lord throughout life.

Deuteronomy 30:6 KJV - "And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

Again, is it possible that this Grace is pointing to the removal of the Curse of the Lord? And if this is correct, wouldn't this make us whole and complete, thus the Lord's "Grace" would be sufficient?

Colossians 2:10-11 KJV - "And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ . . ."
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Ephesians 2:8
"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,"

Romans 5:10
"For if, when we were enemies of God, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved by His life!"

"Save" means much more than going to heaven when you die. It is being continually set free from sin, self, Satan and the world system. You are correct. Salvation is not a "thing", is is a Person. His name is Jesus. Grace/Life (of Christ) are one and the same.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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Journeyman said:
My point is in my first post in this thread, and again, I was being deadly serious about how Jesus followed the example of his Father, not calling sinners into judgment at that time, even though he was miserably abused. You understand the grace of God, don't you?
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I believe that I understand the Grace of God. It seems that there could be a few, or even many "Graces" from the Lord. But what is the ultimate Grace that God could give? Have you come to a conclusion on what that Grace might be?
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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#35
Feb 20, 2021
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#35
Gideon300 said:
Romans 5:10
"For if, when we were enemies of God, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved by His life!"
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It is early in the morning for me, so I might be replying too soon (accept my apologies if I am).

I am suggesting that the ultimate Grace of God is [how] we are reconciled. This is more than a description, but an explanation of the Work of Christ.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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Jan 10, 2019
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#36
peldom10 said:
Your point is significant ...If Christ called in His abusers then He would have had to stop the process of His sacrifice which was for the purpose of establishing ...grace...which is the condition established by our father for forgiveness. That would have interfered in God's assignment for Him. Thus His immediate application of judgement could not have been possible.
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Our Lord showed grace to people every day he walked on earth. Our Creator Jesus Christ patiently endured the sins mankind committed against him.
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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Jan 10, 2019
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#37
2ndTimothyGroup said:
I believe that I understand the Grace of God. It seems that there could be a few, or even many "Graces" from the Lord. But what is the ultimate Grace that God could give? Have you come to a conclusion on what that Grace might be?
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I just told you what the ultimate grace God gave is. He walked on earth and was horribly treated by his creation and yet did not destroy his enemies. He preached repentance.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

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#38
Journeyman said:
I just told you what the ultimate grace God gave is. He walked on earth and was horribly treated by his creation and yet did not destroy his enemies. He preached repentance.
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Ok. Thank you.
 
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peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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#39
Journeyman said:
Our Lord showed grace to people every day he walked on earth. Our Creator Jesus Christ patiently endured the sins mankind committed against him.
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We acknowledge God in our repentance act as our creator. We acknowledge Christ in baptism as our Lord and Savior as well as The Holy Spirit..
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

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peldom10 said:
We acknowledge God in our repentance act as our creator. We acknowledge Christ in baptism as our Lord and Savior as well as The Holy Spirit..
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Yes. In Christ, we are dead to condemning others.
 
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