ERROR: That the Body of Christ becoming complete depends on a certain number of Gentiles.

Marilyn · Nov 6, 2021

ERROR: That the Body of Christ becoming complete depends on a certain number of Gentiles.

I disagree -

That would make God partial only allowing a certain number of Gentiles to come into the Body of Christ.

This view does not agree with all of God`s word on this topic.

This error is based on a wrong interpretation of a single scripture.

`For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, let you should be wise in your own opinion, that hardening in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.` (Rom. 11: 25)

So what is the truth? What scriptures reveal to us God`s completeness of the Body of Christ?

Marilyn.

Marilyn · Nov 7, 2021

`For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, let you should be wise in your own opinion, that hardening in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.` (Rom. 11: 25)

The word `fullness,` in Gk, is `pleroma,` meaning completeness.

So what makes the Body of Christ complete, to finish?

Nehemiah6 · Nov 7, 2021

Marilyn said:

That is not error but God's truth. God has a specific number of Gentiles in mind in order to complete the Church, the Body of Christ. So you are in fact resisting the Holy Spirit.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (Romans 11:25)

What does "the fulness of the Gentiles" mean? Believing Israel is likened unto "the good olive tree" whereas the Gentiles are likened unto branches of "the wild olive tree". They are grafted into the good olive tree. And God has set a limit to the number of branches which will be added before the Church is complete. What does "be come in" mean? That they have become a part of the Body of Christ.

This is no way limits anyone from being saved, since salvation is offered freely to all. However, in God's divine foreknowledge, He know how many will be added to the Church before it is raptured. And that is what this is about. After that God will begin dealing directly with the Jews and Israel once again. They will be subject to "the time of Jacob's trouble" but they will also be delivered by Christ when He comes as the Deliverer to Zion (Jerusalem). And many Jews will be saved after the Second Coming of Christ. But they will be a part of redeemed and restored Israel, not the Church.

Gideon300 · Nov 7, 2021

Marilyn said:

Strong's defines pleroma as fullness. So does Mounce. Mounce defines Rom 11:12 & 25 as meaning a specific amount. It's also used of the coming of the Lord Jesus, Galatians 4:4. "Fullness of time"

Amplified:
"I do not want you, believers, to be unaware of this mystery [God’s previously hidden plan]—so that you will not be wise in your own opinion—that a partial hardening has [temporarily] happened to Israel [to last] until the full number of the Gentiles has come in;"

So your view clashes with some of the most respected scholars. You may not agree, but to call it an error is not well supported by those whose job it is to know.

montana123 · Nov 7, 2021

Marilyn said:

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

God does not limit the amount of Gentiles that can be saved for whoever wants salvation can have it.

If God limited Gentiles what would be the reason for it for the kingdom of God is not limited in space as if there is not room for them for there is plenty of room for them.

If God allowed 1 million Gentiles to enter the kingdom why would He stop there when He loves all people.

If someone thinks all Jews have access to the kingdom but not all Gentiles that would not be true for God is no respecter of persons and there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Jer 46:27 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.

This states all Israel shall be saved which is when God restores the kingdom to Israel.

Which He will make a full end of all Gentile nations their operating governments and rulership but He will not make a full end of Israel but punish them in part and when they have borne their shame He will restore the kingdom to Israel and the saints will rule over the heathen that God spared at the battle of Armageddon.

Israel is blinded in part which means that they accept the Old Testament but not the New Testament for the majority.

They are blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in which means when salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles.

Which is when they take the mark of the beast for repentance and salvation is no longer available to them.

This is not limiting the number of Gentiles in salvation for when they take the mark of the beast they are following the New Age Christ and his agenda so they cannot be saved.

Which it is time for God to end sin on earth so He is giving the world their way for 7 years to cause all people who do not love Him to follow the antichrist.

When the world takes the mark of the beast at the middle of the 7 years period God will then send 2 witnesses to Israel to turn them to the truth that Jesus is their Lord and Savior and at the end of the last three and one half years Israel will be in the truth.

The fulness of the Gentiles are come in when they take the mark of the beast which is in the future so as of now Gentiles are still being saved.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 7, 2021

Marilyn said:

The fullness of the gentiles refers to the OT prophecies of the gentiles who are part of Gods plan to rule over Jerusalem. That time will Come to an end one day and then as Paul said God will come. Israel will repent if her sin and all Israel will be saved and God himself will rule Jerusalem with Israel at peace in her land and gentiles at peace
In theirs

eternally-gratefull · Nov 7, 2021

Marilyn said:

It’s nit the body of christ
it’s the plan if Gid here in earth
the body of Christ is neither Jew or gentile slave or free male or female it is one in christ

eternally-gratefull · Nov 7, 2021

Gideon300 said:

Strong's defines pleroma as fullness. So does Mounce. Mounce defines Rom 11:12 & 25 as meaning a specific amount. It's also used of the coming of the Lord Jesus, Galatians 4:4. "Fullness of time"

Amplified:
"I do not want you, believers, to be unaware of this mystery [God’s previously hidden plan]—so that you will not be wise in your own opinion—that a partial hardening has [temporarily] happened to Israel [to last] until the full number of the Gentiles has come in;"

So your view clashes with some of the most respected scholars. You may not agree, but to call it an error is not well supported by those whose job it is to know.

Full number if gentiles is a bad translation my friend number should not be added

ResidentAlien · Nov 7, 2021

Marilyn said:

ERROR: That the Body of Christ becoming complete depends on a certain number of Gentiles.

I disagree -

That would make God partial only allowing a certain number of Gentiles to come into the Body of Christ.

This view does not agree with all of God`s word on this topic.

This error is based on a wrong interpretation of a single scripture.

`For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, let you should be wise in your own opinion, that hardening in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.` (Rom. 11: 25)

So what is the truth? What scriptures reveal to us God`s completeness of the Body of Christ?

Marilyn.

Okay. I've always seen it the other way, so don't keep us in suspense. What does the "fullness" mean then if not a number?

Absolutely · Nov 7, 2021

Ot has to do with Jacobs trouble and the re grafting of the covenant Jews in romans.

A cut off point for the gentiles . Now God begins the specific work to bring his covenant people in through the messiah

Absolutely · Nov 7, 2021

eternally-gratefull said:

We can not undo that Ruth is Gentile and naomi is jewish.

Absolutely · Nov 7, 2021

Is this thread " dispy vs other view"

Roughsoul1991 · Nov 7, 2021

Marilyn said:

The body of Christ is always being added to (at least until the end of time) as it represents the people who come to salvation. Salvation will be complete after the millennium kingdom.

We are currently in the Church age of the gentiles. Grafted in where for this period of time gentiles are given every opportunity to accept salvation. One day this age of grace will be over and a number only God knows will be the end of this age of the Church. Then the end of the world begins again. God paused the judgement and destruction but it will begin to occur in the 7 years tribulation.

Marilyn · Nov 8, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

That is not error but God's truth. God has a specific number of Gentiles in mind in order to complete the Church, the Body of Christ. So you are in fact resisting the Holy Spirit.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (Romans 11:25)

What does "the fulness of the Gentiles" mean? Believing Israel is likened unto "the good olive tree" whereas the Gentiles are likened unto branches of "the wild olive tree". They are grafted into the good olive tree. And God has set a limit to the number of branches which will be added before the Church is complete. What does "be come in" mean? That they have become a part of the Body of Christ.

This is no way limits anyone from being saved, since salvation is offered freely to all. However, in God's divine foreknowledge, He know how many will be added to the Church before it is raptured. And that is what this is about. After that God will begin dealing directly with the Jews and Israel once again. They will be subject to "the time of Jacob's trouble" but they will also be delivered by Christ when He comes as the Deliverer to Zion (Jerusalem). And many Jews will be saved after the Second Coming of Christ. But they will be a part of redeemed and restored Israel, not the Church.

Hi Nehemiah,

A closer look at Romans 11 reveals that the `root is holy, gives nourishment, (fatness) and supports the branches.

`...the root is holy,.....fatness of the olive tree...the root supports you...` (Rom. 11: 16 - 18)

And the only one who that could be is the Lord Jesus Christ, NOT Israel.

Marilyn · Nov 8, 2021

Gideon300 said:

Hi Gideon,

I believe that it is the word of God that we are to obey. People may think such and such but looking at all the scriptures on this topic reveals a different picture. I will write on this in another post.

If we look at the context of Romans 11 we see it concerns the Jews and Gentiles coming into Christ, signified by the root. The `fullness of the Gentiles,` refers to the purpose of the Lord and not a number.

Marilyn · Nov 8, 2021

montana123 said:

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

God does not limit the amount of Gentiles that can be saved for whoever wants salvation can have it.

If God limited Gentiles what would be the reason for it for the kingdom of God is not limited in space as if there is not room for them for there is plenty of room for them.

If God allowed 1 million Gentiles to enter the kingdom why would He stop there when He loves all people.

If someone thinks all Jews have access to the kingdom but not all Gentiles that would not be true for God is no respecter of persons and there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Jer 46:27 But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.

This states all Israel shall be saved which is when God restores the kingdom to Israel.

Which He will make a full end of all Gentile nations their operating governments and rulership but He will not make a full end of Israel but punish them in part and when they have borne their shame He will restore the kingdom to Israel and the saints will rule over the heathen that God spared at the battle of Armageddon.

Israel is blinded in part which means that they accept the Old Testament but not the New Testament for the majority.

They are blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in which means when salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles.

Which is when they take the mark of the beast for repentance and salvation is no longer available to them.

This is not limiting the number of Gentiles in salvation for when they take the mark of the beast they are following the New Age Christ and his agenda so they cannot be saved.

Which it is time for God to end sin on earth so He is giving the world their way for 7 years to cause all people who do not love Him to follow the antichrist.

When the world takes the mark of the beast at the middle of the 7 years period God will then send 2 witnesses to Israel to turn them to the truth that Jesus is their Lord and Savior and at the end of the last three and one half years Israel will be in the truth.

The fulness of the Gentiles are come in when they take the mark of the beast which is in the future so as of now Gentiles are still being saved.

Hi montana,

Some good thoughts there. However there will be Gentiles saved in the tribulation, (the great multitude. Rev. 7: 14) However they will not be in the Body of Christ purpose.

Marilyn · Nov 8, 2021

eternally-gratefull said:

Hi eg,

Some good thoughts there. I agree that Israel has been promised to rule over the nations, and that Gentiles will be in their land, however the purpose for the Body of Christ is a heavenly one. We will be in the highest with the Lord on His throne ruling over all. (Rev. 3: 21)

Marilyn · Nov 8, 2021

eternally-gratefull said:

Hi again eg,

True the Body of Christ is neither Jew nor Gentile.

Marilyn · Nov 8, 2021

Absolutely said:

Hi Absolutely,

Yes Romans 11 does reveal that God`s purpose for Israel will then take place again.

Marilyn · Nov 8, 2021

Absolutely said:

Hi Absolutely,

Interesting point there.

Israel - mostly Jews and some Gentiles who come into the nation of Israel and then identify with the nation of Israel.

The Body of Christ - mostly Gentiles and some Jews. No distinction is made, as all are the Body of Christ, the new man.

ERROR: That the Body of Christ becoming complete depends on a certain number of Gentiles.

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