Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#61
Have the Law of Moses preachers here even been circumsized as Moses COMMANDED?
If no jots or tittles have fallen from the Law then we would all be practicing Judaism.

Full Judaism. Animal sacrifices, tithes to priests, sabbaths, holy days, the whole she-bang.

But we don't.


So that MUST mean that some jots and tittles HAVE in FACT, fallen from the law.

Since this is a FACT, then the statement of Jesus in Matthew 5 MUST mean that the law is fulfilled.

Since SOME CHRISTIANS know this, we actually still have Christianity and not some weird Judaism where everyone just interprets Judaism for their own selves, going about to establish their own "righteousness" at their law working.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
#62
Well...Let's take a look and see what Paul is really saying in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.
Do you even realize you just made the argument for me? Probably not because most people get this chapter COMPLETELY WRONG. This chapter is not telling everyone that te=he Jews and Gentiles are ONE (even though we are the same unto Gid by Faith, just like a Male and Female are seen as the same unto Gid if we come unto Him by FAITH ALONO, but just like Males and Females Jews a Gentils are still Jews and Gentiles and God has clearly delineated times fir both, thus the TIME of the Gentiles = the Church Age, in-between the TWO TIMES of the Jews, the Spring Feasts and the Fall Feasts (so to speak).

So, if one understands what this chapter means, they understand you just defeated your own argument. Paul calls the Gentile Galatians FOOLISH because they were trying to be like the Jews by obeying the LAW (LOL....No kidding). Thus who has bewitched you that you began in the FAITH no have moved to the FLESH (serving the law as the Jews did before). Then he goes into a diatribe why the Law can not save you, why only faith can save you, why the Law is a CURSE and only FAITH in Jesus saves us, why the Law was NOT the original Promise, but was only added 430 years AFTER the Promise unto Abraham, thus only the PROMISE can save us, and the Law is thus done away with after the Promised SEED has come.

Then finally Paul makes a PO9NT that Satan has managed to TWIST, he tells them that the Jews and Gentiles are al the same, like male and females, but he isn'T saying there are no males and females nor that there is no Jews and Gentiles, he's telling them, HEY..........STOP TRYI G TO BE LIKE THE Jews and serving the Law, it avails NOTHING, its a CURSE, only FAITH can REdeem you so STOP tryi g to serve the Laws like the Jews, Gd sees al the Jews AND the Gentiles the exact same way, when they come unto him by FAITH ALONE !!

Every time I see someone say the Jews and Gentiles are now ONE I just laugh, makes and females are not ONE, anyone with common sense can read that and see that it is just the opposite of what they have been taught, in most cases.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#63
Well...Let's take a look and see what Paul is really saying in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster.

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law. Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
If animal sacrifice was the law that Galatians was talking about then there would be a bunch of people sacrificing animals until it brought them to Christ.

I didn't sacrifice any animals.

Did you? Did those sacrifices bring you to Christ? I don't see why they would.



But, if you tried to obey the 10 commandments, (which is the schoolmaster), as the Lord teaches in Matthew 5, you will find pretty quickly that you will need to be brought to Christ for His Help.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#64
No. You missed the whole point. Again.

The schoolmaster brought us TO CHRIST.

We don't need the schoolmaster anymore because we have CHRIST.
And, having Christ, we aren't any longer a disobedient people (Titus 3:3-7, esp. v.3).

And what the tutor also should have taught us, but some still haven't learned, is that there is nothing that the law can give a person other than the knowledge of their need for Christ!!

Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Wow, you actually know that scripture. Do you understand what it means?

Galatians 3:21-22
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
What is the promise by faith of Jesus Christ, but what we find written in 1 John 3:9?

Therefore we are to understand that we are sinners in order that we might come to Christ as the remedy for sinful behaviour (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14, Titus 3:3).
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#65
Have the Law of Moses preachers here even been circumsized as Moses COMMANDED?
We are not any longer bound to the letter of the law; but we are obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).

Paul wrote the following,

1Co 7:18, Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
1Co 7:19, Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Co 7:20, Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#66
If no jots or tittles have fallen from the Law then we would all be practicing Judaism.

Full Judaism. Animal sacrifices, tithes to priests, sabbaths, holy days, the whole she-bang.

But we don't.


So that MUST mean that some jots and tittles HAVE in FACT, fallen from the law.

Since this is a FACT, then the statement of Jesus in Matthew 5 MUST mean that the law is fulfilled.

Since SOME CHRISTIANS know this, we actually still have Christianity and not some weird Judaism where everyone just interprets Judaism for their own selves, going about to establish their own "righteousness" at their law working.
All things will not be fulfilled until heaven and earth have passed away; for that is a prophecy that is yet to be fulfilled.

For those who seek to be justified by the law, not one jot or tittle has passed away (Galatians 3:10).

For those who are in Christ, we are not any longer bound by the letter, but are set free to be obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#67
They even make the statement, to their congregation, that they are no longer under the Old Testament, but now operate under the New.
And are you not fully aware that this is indeed the case? When something is "fulfilled" it is no longer necessary. When Christ came to fulfil the Law, He also planned to establish the New Covenant. So now He is in Heaven as the Mediator of the New Covenant. Which means that when you try to revert back to the Old Covenant, you are actually OPPOSING Him. Not a very good place to be.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#68
If animal sacrifice was the law that Galatians was talking about then there would be a bunch of people sacrificing animals until it brought them to Christ.

I didn't sacrifice any animals.

Did you? Did those sacrifices bring you to Christ? I don't see why they would.



But, if you tried to obey the 10 commandments, (which is the schoolmaster), as the Lord teaches in Matthew 5, you will find pretty quickly that you will need to be brought to Christ for His Help.
Amen; and that, my brother, is the primary reason why I preach the law.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#70
We are not any longer bound to the letter of the law; but we are obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).

Paul wrote the following,

1Co 7:18, Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
1Co 7:19, Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Co 7:20, Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
There is no spirit of what is written. Saying that is confusion.

The Letter is unto death but the Spirit is unto Life.

You are trying to make death = life

It won't work.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#71
And are you not fully aware that this is indeed the case? When something is "fulfilled" it is no longer necessary. When Christ came to fulfil the Law, He also planned to establish the New Covenant. So now He is in Heaven as the Mediator of the New Covenant. Which means that when you try to revert back to the Old Covenant, you are actually OPPOSING Him. Not a very good place to be.
I wonder if you acknowledge that Jesus' purpose in our lives is to set us free from sin.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#72
Amen; and that, my brother, is the primary reason why I preach the law.
You don't understand what you are doing.

And that is why most people don't agree with you.


You are trying to do the same thing that Moses tried to do. Use the rod to force people a certain way.


The Lord is not like that. He doesn't use the whip. He is the deliverer of His People from the whip.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#74
There is no spirit of what is written. Saying that is confusion.

The Letter is unto death but the Spirit is unto Life.

You are trying to make death = life

It won't work.
There is a spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6, Exodus 34:27).
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#75
You don't understand what you are doing.

And that is why most people don't agree with you.


You are trying to do the same thing that Moses tried to do. Use the rod to force people a certain way.


The Lord is not like that. He doesn't use the whip. He is the deliverer of His People from the whip.
The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv).

If you think that the law is a whip, then I am happy to use a whip to drive people to the deliverer.

I don't think that they will come to Him apart from it.

It is even written in Hebrews that the Lord scourges those whom He receives (Hebrews 12:6).
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#77
The law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv).

If you think that the law is a whip, then I am happy to use a whip to drive people to the deliverer.

I don't think that they will come to Him apart from it.

It is even written in Hebrews that the Lord scourges those whom He receives (Hebrews 12:6).
It is not for you to use that way. Only ONE who is not a hypocrite can use it that way.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#78
I wonder if you acknowledge that Jesus' purpose in our lives is to set us free from sin.
That is a given. But how does that relate to someone trying to revert back to the Old Covenant? Which would be a sin itself.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#79
It is not for you to use that way. Only ONE who is not a hypocrite can use it that way.
Are you saying that Jesus is the only one who is not a hypocrite?

Job 27:8, For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?

That would place a lot of people on the path towards hell (even everyone who has ever lived; including those who have received Christ; if even those who have received Christ are counted as hypocrites).
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#80
That is a given. But how does that relate to someone trying to revert back to the Old Covenant? Which would be a sin itself.
Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

So, disregarding the law would be to engage in lawlessness; which is specifically condemned in the nkjv.

Please note that there is a distinction in my mind between the Old Covenant and the law.

For the law is written on the hearts and minds of those who are under the New Covenant; while the Old Covenant is passing away.