Saved by Water

[justbyfaith]

Baptism in Jesus' Name seals our repentance through faith in the operation of God in order that we might receive the remission of sins...

What is remission of sins but that sin is rendered dead within the body (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that the element of sin within us no longer has any say our behaviour (Romans 6:14)? Is it not true that as sanctified believers, we are no longer obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT))?

If you are still committing sins and are arguing against being baptized in Jesus' Name, perhaps you ought to consider that if you get baptized in Jesus' Name you might just receive the remission of sins!

I find that it is most often the case that people who argue against baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins are the same people who argue against the doctrine of entire sanctification. Sometimes they will only argue one of the two subjects; but if they were to make their voice heard on both subjects, they would fall on the wrong side of both subjects.

While those who have received remission of sins through baptism in Jesus' Name know that they have received the remission of sins; and therefore find no need to argue against the doctrine of entire sanctification because the have done what is necessary to receive entire sanctification; and therefore, if they have not yet received this "second benefit" (2 Corinthians 1:15), it is in the making and only a matter of time.

 

[peldom10]

And yet Cornelius and all his household were saved and baptised in the Holy Ghost while Peter was still speaking [ ... before he could get on to conditions such as baptism, so many of us perceive]

This is why we affirm positively that salvation or for that matter the baptism of the Holy Spirit does not depend upon water baptism

We never the less believe we should be baptised in water in accordance with the scripture.

Why do you try too attach ...."baptism of the Holy Spirit"...with water baptism? Why don't you keep scriptures in context. If you have scriptures to make such assertion ...show them?

Water baptism Acts 2;38, et al.

Other baptism's are other baptisms.

why is that common sense a challenge for you?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Why do you try too attach ...."baptism of the Holy Spirit"...with water baptism? Why don't you keep scriptures in context. If you have scriptures to make such assertion ...show them?

Water baptism Acts 2;38, et al.

Other baptism's are other baptisms.

why is that common sense a challenge for you?

Water Saves:

What does Water symbolize? The Holy Spirit.

Therefore, the Holy Spirit Saves. We see this in Romans 2:27-29, but focus on verse 29.

Romans 2:27-29 NLT - 27 In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God's law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God's law but don't obey it. 28 For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people.

If the Holy Spirit is Water, and if Water Saves, then the Holy Spirit saves through "true Circumcision" which produces a changed heart.

Therefore, the act of water baptism is an act that demonstrates what the Holy Spirit has already done within, or to, a person's heart.

 

[justbyfaith]

The promise of the Holy Spirit is given through submitting to the ordinance of water baptism in Jesus' Name for the remission of sins as a condition for the promise.

The "water" of water baptism, is different than the "washing of water by the word" or the "living water" that is the Holy Spirit satisfying the believer so that he is no longer drawn away and enticed by the toilet water that this world has to offer.

The "water" of water baptism is physical water and not spiritual water.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It's amazing how differently people interpret the Bible.

Jeremiah 4:4 KJV - "Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings."

Turning to Christ results in the removal of the "foreskins of your heart." Colossians 2:9-15 makes this clear:

Colossians 2:11-15 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

If we would be willing to set aside our old doctrine and open our eyes to what the ENTIRE Bible has to say about circumcision/Circumcision . . . clarity has the chance to seed and grow.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes; it would appear in Colossians 2:11-15 that the circumcision of the heart is something that takes place within a person as the result of water baptism.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 also gives me this impression.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Yes; it would appear in Colossians 2:11-15 that the circumcision of the heart is something that takes place within a person as the result of water baptism.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 also gives me this impression.

Yes. How do you feel about Ezekiel 11:19-20 where "water" is not present? If these things were the result of water, it is curious that Ezekiel doesn't mention it. But that's because "water" is actually Water . . . the Holy Spirit. The Sprinkling of Water is the Spirit. It is the Spirit who changes the heart, not water. And this is supported by the Romans 2:29 passage I quoted above. True Circumcision is the result of the Work of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 2:29 NKJV - ". . . but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."

Below, is water used to perform the Circumcision, or is it God?

Deuteronomy 30:6 NKJV - "And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live."

And Jeremiah tells us to "circumcise the foreskins of our hearts." This means to "Turn" to Christ, for we cannot purify ourselves. Isaiah 713 makes this seem pretty clear. If water is what produces the result, there is no need for Christ to die. There would be no need for Colossians 2:9-15 to be written.

Jeremiah 4:4 NKJV - "Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, And take away the foreskins of your hearts, You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, Lest My fury come forth like fire, And burn so that no one can quench it, Because of the evil of your doings."

You're extremely smart, JBF, and I know that you're seeing what I'm seeing. And when the Spirit grabs hold of your heart and shows this to you, your understanding of the Bible is going to explode wide open, far greater than it currently is. I'm excited for you! I've been a part of the "christian" church for nearly fifty years, but only discovered Spiritual Circumcision in March of 2019. I couldn't believe how my Understanding (which comes through Spiritual Circumcision) led to Knowledge (the Holy Spirit), and through that Knowledge . . . here is where we find the Wisdom (God) of God.

I'm envious of you (in a healthy way) . . . you are going to be unbelievable!

 

[peldom10]

The promise of the Holy Spirit is given through submitting to the ordinance of water baptism in Jesus' Name for the remission of sins as a condition for the promise.

The "water" of water baptism, is different than the "washing of water by the word" or the "living water" that is the Holy Spirit satisfying the believer so that he is no longer drawn away and enticed by the toilet water that this world has to offer.

The "water" of water baptism is physical water and not spiritual water.

U are correct.
He is attempting to assign scriptures differently and out of context.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

U are correct.
He is attempting to assign scriptures differently and out of context.

If you are referring to me, Spiritual Circumcision IS the context of the Entire Bible. Spiritual Circumcision is the Purpose of Christ, and it is the Work of Christ, and it is the Circumcision "made without hands" that produces the Effect of Christ, or, the Transformation described in Romans 12:2. Without Spiritual Circumcision, there can be no Love Chapter to have been written. Without Spiritual Circumcision, there would have been no physical healings in the New Testament, for they are merely a reflection of the healing of the Heart. John makes this clear in John 9:39.

John 9:39-40 NKJV - "And Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind." 40 Then [some] of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, "Are we blind also?"

 

[Evmur]

Why do you try too attach ...."baptism of the Holy Spirit"...with water baptism? Why don't you keep scriptures in context. If you have scriptures to make such assertion ...show them?

Water baptism Acts 2;38, et al.

Other baptism's are other baptisms.

why is that common sense a challenge for you?

Because Peter had been quoted [quite correctly] as saying "repent and be baptised and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" and yet Cornelius received the Holy Spirit and spake in tongues before Peter ever got onto the subject of water baptism.

This shows neither salvation or the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is dependent upon water baptism.

 

[Evmur]

U are correct.
He is attempting to assign scriptures differently and out of context.

So you believe that water baptism washes away sin.

... Simon the magician was baptised ... probably Judas and Ananias and Saphira

 

[Evmur]

Baptism in Jesus' Name seals our repentance through faith in the operation of God in order that we might receive the remission of sins...

What is remission of sins but that sin is rendered dead within the body (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that the element of sin within us no longer has any say our behaviour (Romans 6:14)? Is it not true that as sanctified believers, we are no longer obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT))?

If you are still committing sins and are arguing against being baptized in Jesus' Name, perhaps you ought to consider that if you get baptized in Jesus' Name you might just receive the remission of sins!

I find that it is most often the case that people who argue against baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins are the same people who argue against the doctrine of entire sanctification. Sometimes they will only argue one of the two subjects; but if they were to make their voice heard on both subjects, they would fall on the wrong side of both subjects.

While those who have received remission of sins through baptism in Jesus' Name know that they have received the remission of sins; and therefore find no need to argue against the doctrine of entire sanctification because the have done what is necessary to receive entire sanctification; and therefore, if they have not yet received this "second benefit" (2 Corinthians 1:15), it is in the making and only a matter of time.

Water baptism signifies that we have repented and so received remission of sins .... Water baptism can be staged and faked ... repentance and remission of sins cannot be faked, at least before God and scarcely will fakes prosper among godly christians ... "be sure your sin will find you out"

Peter's emphasis is upon the appeal to God for a clear conscience.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

When are we going to stop playing this awful game of Scriptorture?

1 Corinthians 1:14-17 NLT - "I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 for now no one can say they were baptized in my name. 16 (Oh yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas, but I don't remember baptizing anyone else.) 17 For Christ didn't send me to baptize, but to preach the Good News--and not with clever speech, for fear that the cross of Christ would lose its power."

It is offensive that we REFUSE to even attempt to understand what is so simple to understand that a little child . . . I mean . . . LITTLE CHILD could understand?

 

[justbyfaith]

Because Peter had been quoted [quite correctly] as saying "repent and be baptised and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" and yet Cornelius received the Holy Spirit and spake in tongues before Peter ever got onto the subject of water baptism.

This shows neither salvation or the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is dependent upon water baptism.

And of course, that is not the point that we are making.

The point is that the Holy Ghost is absolutely promised to all those who receive baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38-39).

So, if there is any doubt in your mind as to whether or not you have received remission of sins, or the Holy Ghost, it would be expedeint for you to "get this one done"...

I also did not refuse baptism in Jesus' Name when it was offered to me because I had already received the Holy Ghost and the gift of tongues. The Holy Ghost led me to receive baptism in Jesus' name when it was offered to me.

Likewise, if anyone else has received the gift of the Holy Ghost, they will not refuse baptism in Jesus' Name when it is offered to them. The Holy Spirit will lead them to receive it for the sake of the remission of their sins.

 

[justbyfaith]

When are we going to stop playing this awful game of Scriptorture?

1 Corinthians 1:14-17 NLT - "I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 for now no one can say they were baptized in my name. 16 (Oh yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas, but I don't remember baptizing anyone else.) 17 For Christ didn't send me to baptize, but to preach the Good News--and not with clever speech, for fear that the cross of Christ would lose its power."

It is offensive that we REFUSE to even attempt to understand what is so simple to understand that a little child . . . I mean . . . LITTLE CHILD could understand?

In the context of 1 Corinthians 1:14-17, Paul says that he baptized only a few people...

Yet, in Acts 18:8, we find that many were baptized in Corinth.

Which leads me to believe that Paul utilized the same tactic, concerning baptism, as did Jesus in John 4:2.

So, the fact that Paul did not personally baptize many does not preclude that many in Corinth were not baptized.

So thr argument falls apart that says that baptism is not necessary because Paul was no sent to personally baptize.

Because the people were baptized.

The apostles did not neglect their duty to baptize the people in Corinth to whom this letter is bein addressed (whcih contains 1 Corinthians 1:14-17).

 

[justbyfaith]

So you believe that water baptism washes away sin.

... Simon the magician was baptised ... probably Judas and Ananias and Saphira

Regardless of your examples, Acts 22:16 makes it clear that water baptism washes away sins.

It does not eradicate the sin nature....if that were the case, 1 John 1:8 would be a lie.

 

[justbyfaith]

Water baptism signifies that we have repented and so received remission of sins .... Water baptism can be staged and faked ... repentance and remission of sins cannot be faked, at least before God and scarcely will fakes prosper among godly christians ... "be sure your sin will find you out"

Peter's emphasis is upon the appeal to God for a clear conscience.

And of course, as you say, a person can be baptized without actually repenting.

But I would say that both repentance and baptism in Jesus' Name are here (in Acts 2:38-39) given as the formula for receiving the remission of sins.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When are we going to stop playing this awful game of Scriptorture?

1 Corinthians 1:14-17 NLT - "I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 for now no one can say they were baptized in my name. 16 (Oh yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas, but I don't remember baptizing anyone else.) 17 For Christ didn't send me to baptize, but to preach the Good News--and not with clever speech, for fear that the cross of Christ would lose its power."

It is offensive that we REFUSE to even attempt to understand what is so simple to understand that a little child . . . I mean . . . LITTLE CHILD could understand?

Sadly water baptism is to the church what circumcision was to the jews.

And baptism is to the people of God what circumcision was to people like paul

a thorn in the side of the gospel of truth.

Both are satans greatest victories.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Many people should consider that Jesus is only the author of salvation to all those who obey him. (Heb. 5:9) Luke recorded that the commands given by the Holy Ghost to the apostles after Jesus ascended were in fact Jesus' own instructions to all mankind. (Acts 2:1)

Obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is not optional.

All this ignores Paul's answer to the jailer, who specifically asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved.

Paul's answer was simple and clear: believe on the Lord Jesus and you WILL BE saved. Acts 16:30,31

Peter commanded that EVERYONE was to be baptized that way for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38)

To be clear, he commanded everyone PRESENT who participated in Jesus' crucifixion. Not everyone in humanity.

The command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus was given to every group of people; there were no exceptions.

Not to the jailer. He was baptized, but Paul didn't include baptism in his answer to the jailer.

Those who argue differently then must take Acts 16:31 as an incomplete answer. In that case, the Bible could be said to be unclear on a very important question; in fact, THE MOST important question anyone can ask.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Scripture reveals that water baptism is not optional, but mandatory.

Not mandatory for salvation. But mandatory for obedience as a disciple.