Once Saved Always Saved is True.
- Thread starter Hann57
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It seems to me to be the other way round. I am making a point--how is that arguing--because I disagree with you? You seem to have taken the position of 'parent' in the discussion. Guess what? I am an adult and free to support my position just as much as you are yours.
Btw, I have no idea why your explaining what JW's believe in the first place--MY point is they would NEVER be written in God's Book of Life!
PS Also, if you think I am 'spreading' discord, then I would think you wouldn't want to engage me further.
Pps To your mind it is fruitless because I and Charlie are standing our ground and are not in any way changed in our positions.
Once Saved Always Saved has its roots in Calvinism
....Arguably, this is a slight exaggeration of the views of Augustine, but it is NOT an exaggeration of the theology of John Calvin who, along with many theologians in the time of the Reformation, such as Ulrich Zwingly, taught a strict double predestination. Zwingli said: “Those individuals who end up damned forever in hell are also eternally determined by God for that fate.” Clearly we are diverging very far from biblical teaching at this point.
What does this have to do with “Once saved, always saved.”? This doctrine came about as a direct result of Calvinism/Predestination. The basic shorthand outline of this doctrine is explained by using the acronym TULIP.
T = total depravity. We are totally lost and nothing we can do can help us to come toward God. U = unconditional election. If God chooses you for salvation, you will be saved, whether you seek it or not. L = limited atonement. The death of Jesus was not for everyone, but only for those predestined by God for salvation. I = Irresistable grace. Similar to U. If God chooses to give us grace, then we will respond and have no choice about that response. P = perseverance of the Saints. This means that if we are saved by God’s grace, then there is absolutely no possibility that we will later lose that salvation. THIS is the doctrine more commonly known as “Once saved, always saved.” It is the last of a fairly long line of reasoning which goes back to the idea of original sin.
The entire structure of Calvinism is based on a false premise. For this reason, “Once saved, always saved” goes down with the entire ship of Calvinism. However, this will be difficult to explain to the average person you bump into. For this reason, you need to be prepared to deal just with this doctrine, independent of its historical roots in Calvinism. Here is my suggestion. The best place to go to defeat this false doctrine is the book of Hebrews. In fact, the theme of Hebrews is warnings and encouragements against falling away. It is a treatise on how to avoid the very thing which “Once saved, always saved” says can never happen. Below is a brief outline of passages which unmistakably teach the possibility of a Christian losing his or her salvation:
Hebrews 3:7-11 They shall never enter my rest.
Hebrews 3:14 We… share in Christ IF we hold firmly till the end….
Hebrews 3:16-4:11 esp. 3:16-4:1
Foreshadow of the Jews in the wilderness.
Let us make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall short of it…
Hebrews 6:4-8 Who is he talking to?
What happens to these people?
John Oakes
https://evidenceforchristianity.org/is-once-saved-always-saved-consistent-with-biblical-teaching/
....Arguably, this is a slight exaggeration of the views of Augustine, but it is NOT an exaggeration of the theology of John Calvin who, along with many theologians in the time of the Reformation, such as Ulrich Zwingly, taught a strict double predestination. Zwingli said: “Those individuals who end up damned forever in hell are also eternally determined by God for that fate.” Clearly we are diverging very far from biblical teaching at this point.
What does this have to do with “Once saved, always saved.”? This doctrine came about as a direct result of Calvinism/Predestination. The basic shorthand outline of this doctrine is explained by using the acronym TULIP.
T = total depravity. We are totally lost and nothing we can do can help us to come toward God. U = unconditional election. If God chooses you for salvation, you will be saved, whether you seek it or not. L = limited atonement. The death of Jesus was not for everyone, but only for those predestined by God for salvation. I = Irresistable grace. Similar to U. If God chooses to give us grace, then we will respond and have no choice about that response. P = perseverance of the Saints. This means that if we are saved by God’s grace, then there is absolutely no possibility that we will later lose that salvation. THIS is the doctrine more commonly known as “Once saved, always saved.” It is the last of a fairly long line of reasoning which goes back to the idea of original sin.
The entire structure of Calvinism is based on a false premise. For this reason, “Once saved, always saved” goes down with the entire ship of Calvinism. However, this will be difficult to explain to the average person you bump into. For this reason, you need to be prepared to deal just with this doctrine, independent of its historical roots in Calvinism. Here is my suggestion. The best place to go to defeat this false doctrine is the book of Hebrews. In fact, the theme of Hebrews is warnings and encouragements against falling away. It is a treatise on how to avoid the very thing which “Once saved, always saved” says can never happen. Below is a brief outline of passages which unmistakably teach the possibility of a Christian losing his or her salvation:
Hebrews 3:7-11 They shall never enter my rest.
Hebrews 3:14 We… share in Christ IF we hold firmly till the end….
Hebrews 3:16-4:11 esp. 3:16-4:1
Foreshadow of the Jews in the wilderness.
Let us make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall short of it…
Hebrews 6:4-8 Who is he talking to?
- a. been enlightened (NT church “enlightened” = baptized)
- b. tasted the heavenly gift (salvation?)
- c. shared in the Holy Spirit
- d. tasted the goodness of the word
- e. tasted the coming age (saved)
What happens to these people?
- It is impossible… if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance.
- They are crucifying the Son of God all over again.
- Land that produces thorns… will be burned.
- Crucifying the Son of God all over again.
- Subjecting Jesus to public disgrace
- Trampling the Son of God under foot. (Heb 10:29)
- Insulted the Holy Spirit (Heb 10:29)
- Blasphemed (spoken against) the Holy Spirit (Matt 12:32)
- Committed the unforgivable sin (1 John 5:16, Luke 12:10)
- What is the “unforgivable sin?” To willfully, deliberately continue in sin. (Hebrews 10:26
- See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. (ie. They were pure but
- become defiled)
- He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears.
- Hebrews 12:25 If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth (Moses), how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven (Jesus).
John Oakes
https://evidenceforchristianity.org/is-once-saved-always-saved-consistent-with-biblical-teaching/
But you did choose to respond.
In all the the forums people participate freely, even to posts not directed to them--I'm sorry if you feel I shouldn't have and will take note of that in the future.
Scripture should be tested against Scripture--isolation of verses always leads to fanaticism and false doctrine. It clearly says a believer can fall away in Hebrews. Jesus said if you don't abide in him you will be like the branches that are cast into the fired and destroyed--abiding comes after Salvation--we can only abide in something we already have.
Also, you ask who John is addressing--in Revelation? If not, please post the scripture you referring to. Scripture as a whole is addressed to believers, since otherwise "it is nonsense to those who are perishing."
Additiionally, I dont see that we or any others had a discussion about what JW's believe. Again--the book of life are those who receive eternal life. If a person never believes in the one true God and on the Savior the Lord Jesus Christ, it is impossible for their names to be ever written in the book of life--no more than an atheist's would.
The book of life is only for the righteous--exodus, the psalms, and revelation all say a person that was once faithful can be removed from the book of life.
The book of life is only for the righteous--exodus, the psalms, and revelation all say a person that was once faithful can be removed from the book of life.
But you did choose to respond.
In all the the forums people participate freely, even to posts not directed to them--I'm sorry if you feel I shouldn't have and will take note of that in the future.
Scripture should be tested against Scripture--isolation of verses always leads to fanaticism and false doctrine. It clearly says a believer can fall away in Hebrews. Jesus said if you don't abide in him you will be like the branches that are cast into the fired and destroyed--abiding comes after Salvation--we can only abide in something we already have.
Also, you ask who John is addressing--in Revelation? If not, please post the scripture you referring to. Scripture as a whole is addressed to believers, since otherwise "it is nonsense to those who are perishing."
In all the the forums people participate freely, even to posts not directed to them--I'm sorry if you feel I shouldn't have and will take note of that in the future.
Scripture should be tested against Scripture--isolation of verses always leads to fanaticism and false doctrine. It clearly says a believer can fall away in Hebrews. Jesus said if you don't abide in him you will be like the branches that are cast into the fired and destroyed--abiding comes after Salvation--we can only abide in something we already have.
Also, you ask who John is addressing--in Revelation? If not, please post the scripture you referring to. Scripture as a whole is addressed to believers, since otherwise "it is nonsense to those who are perishing."
What I’m talking about is an individual who has believed in the risen Lord and is obedient. Now, can that Christian stumble and fall into sin for a season or more? Yes. Do they lose their justification? No, but they can hamper their sanctification. God may even end their life because of repetitive sin.
The doctrine of the elect is hard understand and of course we get the God sovereign vs free will debate. Through out scripture we see that God has persevered a group of people until himself(The 7,000 God had reserved for himself during the reign King Ahab as an example)
Again, I not talking about people who simply gave lip service and moved on. I’m talking about the few that are actually in Christ.
-
1
- Show all
No I'm not either--nearly all churches I have ever attended believe 'once saved always saved'--I disagreed simply by reading the scriptures that say otherwise. Once Saved Always Saved originated with John Calvin's T.U.L.I.P. Doctrine''the perseverance of the saints'--and tied to that belief , God predestined those who would be saved and those who would be damned. There are many problems with this--unfortunately, similarly to the Mormons, there are Christians who simply believe what they've been taught and don't investigate the whole of scripture for themselves.
The typical response from those who don't believe a Christian can fall away is that the person wasn't a true Christian. However, you can find numerous stories online as well as on youtube--I have met these Christians myself, my own sister being one of them as well as my uncle who was a pastor in the Presbyterian church, no less. Both now dead having never come back to the faith.
There's a saying "If you tell a lie often enough it becomes truth--sadly that is what has happened with once saved always saved--it is the reason our churches are so devoid of life and the spirit--they are man centered and complacent as a whole. We were warned in the first century about false teachers--of course they have multiplied since then--and these aren't the Joel Olsteens' and the Kenneth Copelands--they are in our mainstream churches.
The typical response from those who don't believe a Christian can fall away is that the person wasn't a true Christian. However, you can find numerous stories online as well as on youtube--I have met these Christians myself, my own sister being one of them as well as my uncle who was a pastor in the Presbyterian church, no less. Both now dead having never come back to the faith.
There's a saying "If you tell a lie often enough it becomes truth--sadly that is what has happened with once saved always saved--it is the reason our churches are so devoid of life and the spirit--they are man centered and complacent as a whole. We were warned in the first century about false teachers--of course they have multiplied since then--and these aren't the Joel Olsteens' and the Kenneth Copelands--they are in our mainstream churches.
Okay, you started this.
How many times have you ever watched a Lakewood church service on you tube every Sunday morning?
I watch regularly.
It is my church.
And after 36 years, it is without a doubt the best church I've ever attended.
And I've been to just about them all.
If you've seen one recently, what can you say is wrong about it?
I bet you've never watched one.
You bad mouth one of God's servants as though you actually know what you are talking about.
Roman's 14:4; "Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand."
How many times have you ever watched a Lakewood church service on you tube every Sunday morning?
I watch regularly.
It is my church.
And after 36 years, it is without a doubt the best church I've ever attended.
And I've been to just about them all.
If you've seen one recently, what can you say is wrong about it?
I bet you've never watched one.
You bad mouth one of God's servants as though you actually know what you are talking about.
Roman's 14:4; "Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand."
-
1
- Show all
While I certainly don’t disagree on the current state of the Western Church and it’s utter decline in sound theology, I still don’t believe that nullifies God’s promise to His people.
We did nothing to earn it so how can we lose it? If we’re responsible for my own salvation, I would lose it daily as would everyone else. One sin no matter how small would disqualify us.
We did nothing to earn it so how can we lose it? If we’re responsible for my own salvation, I would lose it daily as would everyone else. One sin no matter how small would disqualify us.
-
1
- Show all
He is not one of God's servants. He is a false teacher, just like Kenneth Copeland, Tod White, Bennie Hinn and the rest of them. Do an internet search "Joel Olsteen"+"False Teacher" you will find a multitude of articles like this one:
Who Is Joel Osteen and are his Teachings Biblical?
Overarching all that Joel and Victoria Osteen teach is the prosperity gospel: God’s will is that we be blessed with material things, a view that contradicts 1 Timothy 6:6. As the Lakewood Church’s website says, “To be successful in your walk with God, commit to honor God with your finances. When you commit to give the Lord the first 10% of your income, God promises He will pour out blessings you cannot contain. Tithing is the first key to financial prosperity.” Lakewood’s website then quotes the favorite proof-text for this teaching, Malachi 3:10. It is a prime example of taking Old Covenant promises to Israel out of context to apply them to New Covenant believers.
Another problem in Osteen’s message is his promotion of name-it-claim-it or word-faith theology: “We have to conceive it on the inside before we’re ever going to receive it on the outside,” Osteen writes. “If you don’t think you can have something good, then you never will. The barrier is in your mind. . . . Your own wrong thinking can keep you from God’s best. . . . To experience [God’s] immeasurable favor, you must rid yourself of that small-minded thinking and start expecting God’s blessings, start anticipating promotion and supernatural increase. You must conceive it in your heart before you can receive it. In other words, you must make increase in your own thinking, then God will bring those things to pass” (from Your Best Life Now, chapter 1). There is nothing biblical about such teaching. There is no power inherent in positive thinking, and we do not create our own realities. God is not our servant, standing by and waiting for us to fire up our imaginations so He can lavish us with material goods. Jesus told His followers to “give up everything you have” (Luke 14:33), not to seek to get more.
More often than not, Osteen sounds like an inspirational life-coach, instead of a herald of the gospel. He often preaches about how people can improve their lives, be prosperous, and experience happiness. Noticeably absent in Osteen’s optimistic message is any mention of sin or repentance. The atonement of Christ provides us with healing and the abundant life, according to Osteen, but apparently receiving forgiveness from a holy God is not necessary.
In numerous interviews and writings, Osteen has failed to proclaim that Jesus is the only way to heaven. He has repeatedly refused to agree with the teachings of the Bible that certain behaviors are sinful. This is not a new convert being interviewed; it’s the leader of a church of tens of thousands. Osteen can’t bring himself to support fundamental doctrines of the faith he claims to preach. His words communicate relativism and demonstrate a profoundly poor understanding of the Bible.
When you don’t talk about sin—and Osteen purposefully does not—you’re not preaching the whole gospel. When you barely, if ever, call sin what it is, you’re not helping anyone, least of all the sinner who is enslaved to sin (John 8:34; 2 Corinthians 4:3). Joel Osteen’s teaching would lead us to believe that we are being saved from unhappiness and failure in life, not from sin and God’s wrath. Osteen does not teach that we need a divine rescue from judgment, but rather simply a self-improvement plan.
Listening to Osteen, a person would think God primarily wants to make poor people wealthy, sad people happy, and insecure people self-confident. But, according to the Bible, God primarily wants to make dead people live (John 5:24), wicked people righteous (Matthew 9:13), and His enemies His friends (Romans 5:10). Happiness, self-assurance, and eternal prosperity, according to the Bible, come as a result of submission to God’s will, starting with salvation (Matthew 6:33), and always in the context of His will (Hebrews 10:36).
New Testament believers are never promised health and wealth in the here-and-now. Our inheritance “is kept in heaven” for us (1 Peter 1:4). Preaching a gospel of self-motivation and financial gain is short-sighted in that its focus is on this world, which is passing away (1 John 2:17). Better to preach the need for repentance and faith and leave the rest to God (Mark 1:15).
Osteen’s message is sweet, attractive, and pretty. It comes with the million-dollar smile, a heaping helping of the feel-goods, and all of the motivation of the best self-help gurus. That message is also hollow, weak, and devoid of any real value. The most important parts of the gospel are left out, supposedly to broaden his ministry’s appeal. Anyone depending on that message, without recognizing what’s missing, is going to find himself spiritually hungry, frustrated, and in dire straits when a real disaster strikes.
What Joel Osteen pushes is a shell of legitimate biblical Christianity, at best, and a dangerous counterfeit at worst. When all you have to offer is materialism and emotion, you’re not an evangelist. You’re a motivational speaker who borrows religious terminology. Nothing Osteen says is going to help a person with legitimate questions about faith and salvation. His message won’t build real disciples; there’s no more substance for the believer than for the unbeliever. Nor is his message going to sustain faith in a crisis. When things go bad, people quickly realize God’s blessings don’t come merely because they think happy thoughts. And if personal prosperity is the measure of their success as a Christian, then Osteen’s teaching has merely set them up for a fall.
A true preacher of the gospel does not avoid any topic, especially crucial ones such as sin and morality, simply because some people don’t like to hear it. And true men of God don’t emphasize material success and positive emotions over the truth. Sincere or not, honest or not, well-intended or not, Joel and Victoria Osteen are not preaching the gospel, and neither are other prosperity teachers. Osteen and his ilk should not be supported by those with a love for spiritual truth and a concern for the lost.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Joel-Osteen.html
Who Is Joel Osteen and are his Teachings Biblical?
Overarching all that Joel and Victoria Osteen teach is the prosperity gospel: God’s will is that we be blessed with material things, a view that contradicts 1 Timothy 6:6. As the Lakewood Church’s website says, “To be successful in your walk with God, commit to honor God with your finances. When you commit to give the Lord the first 10% of your income, God promises He will pour out blessings you cannot contain. Tithing is the first key to financial prosperity.” Lakewood’s website then quotes the favorite proof-text for this teaching, Malachi 3:10. It is a prime example of taking Old Covenant promises to Israel out of context to apply them to New Covenant believers.
Another problem in Osteen’s message is his promotion of name-it-claim-it or word-faith theology: “We have to conceive it on the inside before we’re ever going to receive it on the outside,” Osteen writes. “If you don’t think you can have something good, then you never will. The barrier is in your mind. . . . Your own wrong thinking can keep you from God’s best. . . . To experience [God’s] immeasurable favor, you must rid yourself of that small-minded thinking and start expecting God’s blessings, start anticipating promotion and supernatural increase. You must conceive it in your heart before you can receive it. In other words, you must make increase in your own thinking, then God will bring those things to pass” (from Your Best Life Now, chapter 1). There is nothing biblical about such teaching. There is no power inherent in positive thinking, and we do not create our own realities. God is not our servant, standing by and waiting for us to fire up our imaginations so He can lavish us with material goods. Jesus told His followers to “give up everything you have” (Luke 14:33), not to seek to get more.
More often than not, Osteen sounds like an inspirational life-coach, instead of a herald of the gospel. He often preaches about how people can improve their lives, be prosperous, and experience happiness. Noticeably absent in Osteen’s optimistic message is any mention of sin or repentance. The atonement of Christ provides us with healing and the abundant life, according to Osteen, but apparently receiving forgiveness from a holy God is not necessary.
In numerous interviews and writings, Osteen has failed to proclaim that Jesus is the only way to heaven. He has repeatedly refused to agree with the teachings of the Bible that certain behaviors are sinful. This is not a new convert being interviewed; it’s the leader of a church of tens of thousands. Osteen can’t bring himself to support fundamental doctrines of the faith he claims to preach. His words communicate relativism and demonstrate a profoundly poor understanding of the Bible.
When you don’t talk about sin—and Osteen purposefully does not—you’re not preaching the whole gospel. When you barely, if ever, call sin what it is, you’re not helping anyone, least of all the sinner who is enslaved to sin (John 8:34; 2 Corinthians 4:3). Joel Osteen’s teaching would lead us to believe that we are being saved from unhappiness and failure in life, not from sin and God’s wrath. Osteen does not teach that we need a divine rescue from judgment, but rather simply a self-improvement plan.
Listening to Osteen, a person would think God primarily wants to make poor people wealthy, sad people happy, and insecure people self-confident. But, according to the Bible, God primarily wants to make dead people live (John 5:24), wicked people righteous (Matthew 9:13), and His enemies His friends (Romans 5:10). Happiness, self-assurance, and eternal prosperity, according to the Bible, come as a result of submission to God’s will, starting with salvation (Matthew 6:33), and always in the context of His will (Hebrews 10:36).
New Testament believers are never promised health and wealth in the here-and-now. Our inheritance “is kept in heaven” for us (1 Peter 1:4). Preaching a gospel of self-motivation and financial gain is short-sighted in that its focus is on this world, which is passing away (1 John 2:17). Better to preach the need for repentance and faith and leave the rest to God (Mark 1:15).
Osteen’s message is sweet, attractive, and pretty. It comes with the million-dollar smile, a heaping helping of the feel-goods, and all of the motivation of the best self-help gurus. That message is also hollow, weak, and devoid of any real value. The most important parts of the gospel are left out, supposedly to broaden his ministry’s appeal. Anyone depending on that message, without recognizing what’s missing, is going to find himself spiritually hungry, frustrated, and in dire straits when a real disaster strikes.
What Joel Osteen pushes is a shell of legitimate biblical Christianity, at best, and a dangerous counterfeit at worst. When all you have to offer is materialism and emotion, you’re not an evangelist. You’re a motivational speaker who borrows religious terminology. Nothing Osteen says is going to help a person with legitimate questions about faith and salvation. His message won’t build real disciples; there’s no more substance for the believer than for the unbeliever. Nor is his message going to sustain faith in a crisis. When things go bad, people quickly realize God’s blessings don’t come merely because they think happy thoughts. And if personal prosperity is the measure of their success as a Christian, then Osteen’s teaching has merely set them up for a fall.
A true preacher of the gospel does not avoid any topic, especially crucial ones such as sin and morality, simply because some people don’t like to hear it. And true men of God don’t emphasize material success and positive emotions over the truth. Sincere or not, honest or not, well-intended or not, Joel and Victoria Osteen are not preaching the gospel, and neither are other prosperity teachers. Osteen and his ilk should not be supported by those with a love for spiritual truth and a concern for the lost.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Joel-Osteen.html
Losing a ring would imply someone’s own negligence or accidental circumstances. I’m really not sure where you are going with all of this.
What I’m essentially gathering is salvation is not by works, but one can lose that if they coherently chose to reject Christ and His Gospel. It’s not attained by a person, but they lose it by their own admission. Is that correct?
What I’m essentially gathering is salvation is not by works, but one can lose that if they coherently chose to reject Christ and His Gospel. It’s not attained by a person, but they lose it by their own admission. Is that correct?
-
1
- Show all
Well, you certainly said a mouthful, didn't you?
I asked you 3 questions you did not answer.
And a Bible verse you did not answer either.
Yet you managed to put together about a 300 word rant on how bad Joel Osteen is without ever watching one of his services.
I'm currently reading a book by Charles R. Swindoll called "Growing deep in the Christian life", written in 1986.
After 5 chapters (very small print and not so easy to grasp), he sounds a lot like Joel Osteen.
Not on everything but on some things.
And enough to know I'm following the right man and church.
Here's the real deal.
Joel Osteen made the mistake (not really, he learned from it) of going on the worldly show "Larry King Live".
He made Christian history on his blunder with salvation.
Secondly, he blundered again with the hurricane when he did not open up the church.
You see, this is how things work, when a big time pastor makes a mistake, the world jumps all over him.
When he corrects those mistakes and goes on to do wonderful things, the world ignores him.
You, without a doubt, only know a worldly view of him and that's how you judge him.
Shame on you, God's children are not called to do this.
Maybe someday you'll cry out to God for help and he'll tell you to tune into Lakewood church.
I asked you 3 questions you did not answer.
And a Bible verse you did not answer either.
Yet you managed to put together about a 300 word rant on how bad Joel Osteen is without ever watching one of his services.
I'm currently reading a book by Charles R. Swindoll called "Growing deep in the Christian life", written in 1986.
After 5 chapters (very small print and not so easy to grasp), he sounds a lot like Joel Osteen.
Not on everything but on some things.
And enough to know I'm following the right man and church.
Here's the real deal.
Joel Osteen made the mistake (not really, he learned from it) of going on the worldly show "Larry King Live".
He made Christian history on his blunder with salvation.
Secondly, he blundered again with the hurricane when he did not open up the church.
You see, this is how things work, when a big time pastor makes a mistake, the world jumps all over him.
When he corrects those mistakes and goes on to do wonderful things, the world ignores him.
You, without a doubt, only know a worldly view of him and that's how you judge him.
Shame on you, God's children are not called to do this.
Maybe someday you'll cry out to God for help and he'll tell you to tune into Lakewood church.