How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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Jul 23, 2018
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This is far out wrong ... He is not gathering us with a sickle is He? He's not going to sickle us into heaven. It is the harvest of the wicked in verse 19 it tells you the clusters he gathered were thrown into great wine press of GOD'S WRATH.

How can it be the church?
The harvest before that one.
Around vs 14.

The last one you pointed to is BY ANGELS not Jesus.....and to the wrath.

I am referring to the one BY JESUS.

The one that cant be erased or changed.
 

GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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The Sickle is an instrument of death/reaping = cutting down that which is standing
The sickle is an instrument being used in a visionary scenario - the interpretation of which must be based on the context of that visionary scenario.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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Yes Brother, i understand as i have used them.
Scripture clear two key facts, verse 13 Blessed are those who die in the Lord from now on(this point forward)
Therefore the Lord used the symbolic 'sharp knife sickle' for the harvest thru death - no rapture.

Now there is something very Beautiful and Powerful going on here in the death of the Saints - can you see it???
That is not speaking of the death of the saints. It is the rapture harvest that happens post-trib followed by the wrath of God symbolized by the winepress.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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That is not speaking of the death of the saints. It is the rapture harvest that happens post-trib followed by the wrath of God symbolized by the winepress.
v13 And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

v14 And I looked and saw a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was One like the Son of Man, with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

What changed from verse 13 "those who die from this MOMENT ON/FORWARD to verse 14 where the Lord has a Sharp Sickle

KEY - The Lord does not use anything in His hand for either the Resurrection or the rapture. Cutting is death.

Gotta GO - PEACE to You - Good Nite Brother
 

GaryA

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Aug 10, 2019
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humble reminder - we are to dwell on what is said/written - not on what is not there - this is the tendency the 'pre-trib' people make.
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i allow scripture to show me what it says and it takes time/prayer/study
You are trying to hard - just like the 'pre-trib' people do.

humble reminder:

Whenever you study Revelation, you must always start with an understanding of "what John saw" - you must never try to interpret individual words and/or phrases apart from an understanding of "what John saw" - or you will fall/slip into error.

Correctly applying the 'vision' aspect of Revelation to its interpretation is critical to obtaining a proper understanding of it.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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That is not speaking of the death of the saints. It is the rapture harvest that happens post-trib followed by the wrath of God symbolized by the winepress.
There is no post-trib rapture harvest. More fantasizing rather than plain Bible exposition.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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KEY - The Lord does not use anything in His hand for either the Resurrection or the rapture. Cutting is death.
No, the tool he uses is one that is specially made to harvest grapes safely. The grapes are safe and unharmed.

The second harvest is where grapes suffer harm:

Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Guess who trods those grapes?

Rev_19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Jesus!

Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

This is the rapture.

Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress , even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

This is Armageddon and the wrath of God.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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No, the tool he uses is one that is specially made to harvest grapes safely. The grapes are safe and unharmed.

The second harvest is where grapes suffer harm:

Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Guess who trods those grapes?

Rev_19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Jesus!

Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

This is the rapture.

Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress , even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

This is Armageddon and the wrath of God.
revelation 14 :14 is not the rapture. For one ,the Rapture is the barley Harvest not the Grape Harvest , and there is no sickle in the rapture.
The rapture is the groom gathering His bride.

If you guys frame everything outside the bride /groom dynamic , things become abstract.

Purpose is almost never revealed in other rapture models.

Do you guys know the purpose of the rapture?
The purpose if the trib?
The purpose of the AC?

1) I see almost nobody incorporating the bride and groom. ( a sure pathway for missing any hope to unpack the rapture and surrounding components.)
2) Almost nobody aware that the trib is Jacobs trouble....the time of gentiles OVER, ( THE CHURCH) ,the bride taken and in heaven ,AS JESUS DECLARED, and the beginning of the destruction of the earth and its inhabitants.

3) almost nobody here addresses the PURPOSE of the antichrist.
a) he is obsessed with killing christians....and....
b) He masquerades as the messiah...coming to help the world.
c) he is obsessed with the jews and perverting everything about them. As well as their destruction

Purpose left out is the incubator for mans formulas
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Funny --- I don't see the words "during the trib" anywhere in that chapter... :unsure:

Why do you believe [verses 14-16] occur "during the trib"...?

Do you believe everything occurring in that chapter to be in chronological order?
Rev 1 through 14 is before armageddon.

No brainer it is in the trib.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Again - why do you believe this?
The chapter starts with the 144k in heaven as firstfruit Jews.
The main harvest of Jews MUST FOLLOW.
That main harvest of Jews is rev 14;14.

AFTER that Main Harvest is Armageddon. So Revelation 1 through 14 is during the trib
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
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The chapter starts with the 144k in heaven as firstfruit Jews.
The main harvest of Jews MUST FOLLOW.
That main harvest of Jews is rev 14;14.

AFTER that Main Harvest is Armageddon. So Revelation 1 through 14 is during the trib
The harvest written in chapter 14 is prophecy pointing to the near future. God will not harvest people with a sickle. Harvesting will not happen near the midpoint of the week, and chapter 14 is a midpoint chapter. The first harvest is of the righteous and that will be those who refuse the mark and are murdered. A big part of the harvest of the wicked will be Armageddon and the parable of the tares taking place at His coming. The 70th week goes from the 7th seal to the 7th vial, so chapter 8 to chapter 16.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
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revelation 14 :14 is not the rapture. For one ,the Rapture is the barley Harvest not the Grape Harvest , and there is no sickle in the rapture.
The rapture is the groom gathering His bride.

If you guys frame everything outside the bride /groom dynamic , things become abstract.

Purpose is almost never revealed in other rapture models.

Do you guys know the purpose of the rapture?
The purpose if the trib?
The purpose of the AC?

1) I see almost nobody incorporating the bride and groom. ( a sure pathway for missing any hope to unpack the rapture and surrounding components.)
2) Almost nobody aware that the trib is Jacobs trouble....the time of gentiles OVER, ( THE CHURCH) ,the bride taken and in heaven ,AS JESUS DECLARED, and the beginning of the destruction of the earth and its inhabitants.

3) almost nobody here addresses the PURPOSE of the antichrist.
a) he is obsessed with killing christians....and....
b) He masquerades as the messiah...coming to help the world.
c) he is obsessed with the jews and perverting everything about them. As well as their destruction

Purpose left out is the incubator for mans formulas
Good point. The 70th week or "trib" is for Daniel's people, not the Gentile church of today. And the purpose of the "trib" is written in Daniel 12: God's purpose is to "completely shatter" the power of Israel - bring them to the place where ONLY GOD can save them. Today they trust in their IDF.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
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That is not speaking of the death of the saints. It is the rapture harvest that happens post-trib followed by the wrath of God symbolized by the winepress.
Sorry, but by this time Paul's rapture will have taken the church to heaven over 3 1/2 years earlier: just before the 6th seal.