If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?
- Thread starter pittsburghjoe
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You should be careful of this kind of inductive logic:
"1) Some forms of disp. are valid
2) I propose a form of disp.
Conclusion: my proposed form of dispensationalism is true"
You've already said a number of things that directly contradict scripture, such as Christians being ruled by Christ in the millennial kingdom rather than reigning with Christ. While this is consistent with the Talmudic concept that goyim become slaves and servants to Jews at the coming of the messiah, it contradicts NT scripture. By its nature it is not a Christian interpretation.
It doesn't matter whether you want to approach the matter through dispensationalism or an observation of the differences of covenants, each model must be tested against scripture and in the event of a contradiction with scripture, it must be rejected.
Here are some questions that usually shake apart the chaff of the Talmud from the fruit of Christianity:
1) How are you determining that Christians are genetically Gentile?
2) How are you determining that the current geopolitical state that calls itself Israel is a genuine manifestation of Biblical Israel?
3) How are you determining who counts as genetically Jewish or of Israel?
In each of these questions an opposite interpretation is possible even within dispensationalism. With 1), your perspective requires Christians to be considered devoid of Israelite heritage while the opposite is likely true in most cases. With 2), not all sects of Talmudic Judaism agree with the religious politics of the geopolitical state of Israel in the same way that not all denominations of Christianity agree with the Vatican. In regards to 3), modern political Israel determines heritage based on the active participation in Talmudic Judaism within the last few generations rather than any Israelite heritge and will not count you if your family was part of an unauthorized sect.
It might be possible that the "genetic profile" proporting to be Judaic actually represent converts of converts, proselytes of proselytes. The true genetic identity of "genetic Jews" might actually be Canaanite and not true Israelites at all (allegedly there is archeological evidence to support that concept).
How do we differentiate between a true claim and a pretenders claim? Luckily, very explicitly in the New Testament, the promise is not counted through any other genetic legacy than Christ. We don't need to weigh claims over heritage because they don't matter, only spiritual species does (those in or not in Christ). And you will know them by their fruits.
"1) Some forms of disp. are valid
2) I propose a form of disp.
Conclusion: my proposed form of dispensationalism is true"
You've already said a number of things that directly contradict scripture, such as Christians being ruled by Christ in the millennial kingdom rather than reigning with Christ. While this is consistent with the Talmudic concept that goyim become slaves and servants to Jews at the coming of the messiah, it contradicts NT scripture. By its nature it is not a Christian interpretation.
It doesn't matter whether you want to approach the matter through dispensationalism or an observation of the differences of covenants, each model must be tested against scripture and in the event of a contradiction with scripture, it must be rejected.
Here are some questions that usually shake apart the chaff of the Talmud from the fruit of Christianity:
1) How are you determining that Christians are genetically Gentile?
2) How are you determining that the current geopolitical state that calls itself Israel is a genuine manifestation of Biblical Israel?
3) How are you determining who counts as genetically Jewish or of Israel?
In each of these questions an opposite interpretation is possible even within dispensationalism. With 1), your perspective requires Christians to be considered devoid of Israelite heritage while the opposite is likely true in most cases. With 2), not all sects of Talmudic Judaism agree with the religious politics of the geopolitical state of Israel in the same way that not all denominations of Christianity agree with the Vatican. In regards to 3), modern political Israel determines heritage based on the active participation in Talmudic Judaism within the last few generations rather than any Israelite heritge and will not count you if your family was part of an unauthorized sect.
It might be possible that the "genetic profile" proporting to be Judaic actually represent converts of converts, proselytes of proselytes. The true genetic identity of "genetic Jews" might actually be Canaanite and not true Israelites at all (allegedly there is archeological evidence to support that concept).
How do we differentiate between a true claim and a pretenders claim? Luckily, very explicitly in the New Testament, the promise is not counted through any other genetic legacy than Christ. We don't need to weigh claims over heritage because they don't matter, only spiritual species does (those in or not in Christ). And you will know them by their fruits.
In Luke 17:20,21 Jesus himself clearly said it's inside is. When we become reborn we belong to God and his Kingdom, it's spiritual.
To make this more clear try to understand this. There are two kingdoms. Kingdom of light and kingdom of darkness. When we were sinners we belonged to the wrong side and now we are here in the kingdom of God.
To make this more clear try to understand this. There are two kingdoms. Kingdom of light and kingdom of darkness. When we were sinners we belonged to the wrong side and now we are here in the kingdom of God.
-
1
- Show all
It seems you are awfully concerned over who the real Jews are! Wouldn't you think Jesus knows who they are and no matter what we think or say they are who He says they are?
When Jesus comes there will still be unbelievers on earth! Not everyone is reigning with Christ, they will be ruled by Christ.
It matters little to me what you think I stand for, Jocund, I couldn't care less!
When Jesus comes there will still be unbelievers on earth! Not everyone is reigning with Christ, they will be ruled by Christ.
It matters little to me what you think I stand for, Jocund, I couldn't care less!
If you are Reborn, you are a Child of GOD. If you are a Child of GOD, you are being Ruled by Him. WAKE UP. You refuse to see that global Reign with GOD'S Presence is for the New earth ...the Infinite earth.
1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
-
1
- Show all
The scripture plainly shows us the 1000 year reign of Christ BEFORE the new earth begins.
Rev. 20:7-10
"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
Now the New Heaven and the New Earth come down out of heaven as shown by John in Chapter 21!
Rev. 20:7-10
"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
Now the New Heaven and the New Earth come down out of heaven as shown by John in Chapter 21!
O
Show us how you know it's symbolic!
If the 1000 year reign is symbolic so is Satan being cast in hell symbolic. So is the resurrection symbolic. So is the Judgement symbolic beginning in Rev. 20:11. So is the new heaven and the new earth symbolic.
See PJ, you can't just pick out one event and say it's symbolic without the surrounding context also being symbolic.
If the 1000 year reign is symbolic so is Satan being cast in hell symbolic. So is the resurrection symbolic. So is the Judgement symbolic beginning in Rev. 20:11. So is the new heaven and the new earth symbolic.
See PJ, you can't just pick out one event and say it's symbolic without the surrounding context also being symbolic.
O
PJ, the OT foretells of this day of a 1000 years. If you do a time study from creation you would come up with about 4000 years till the Lord was crucified, add another 2000 years for the church age, and the 7th day or sabbath day, also called the day of the Lord is another 1000 years which is to come.
Deal with this from the OT
Psalms 37:27-29
Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
Psalms 37:27-29
Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
-
1
- Show all