How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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You still have not figured it out! It is astounding!
By its very definition a "second" coming can only be once and there must have been a first. But saying "second coming" in NO WAY makes a third coming impossible. The truth is, your "second" coming will really be His THIRD coming, because He will come the second time FOR His saints and only to the air, no touchdown.
How can this be adding? Pauls' rapture is Jesus' SECOND coming. Matthew wrote of His THIRD coming. Plain and simple.
By its very definition a "second" coming can only be once and there must have been a first. But saying "second coming" in NO WAY makes a third coming impossible. The truth is, your "second" coming will really be His THIRD coming, because He will come the second time FOR His saints and only to the air, no touchdown.
How can this be adding? Pauls' rapture is Jesus' SECOND coming. Matthew wrote of His THIRD coming. Plain and simple.
And, here is where the error occurs...
Start with the actual word in scripture and trace it to its component parts through a good lexicon - you will STILL get 'apostasy'.
If you don't, may I suggest that either your lexicon or your skills in using it are lacking...
According to my lexicon, the actual word in scripture is not derived from the two words you want to put together. (Which seems weird, I know - considering the spelling...)
Nonetheless, the derivation of the word in scripture does not come from those two words.
It comes from one of the words and a similar-but-not-the-same word as the other.
You STILL end up with 'apostasy'.
You are 'cherry-picking' to come up with your own definition.
Be honest with yourself and start with the actual word in scripture - and then stay on track...
Stop trying to build-your-own-word from component words.
Sometimes - it simply does not work that way - no matter how much you want it to...
'mailbox' is easy:
mail (correspondence) + box (container)
mailbox = correspondence container
How about this one...?
poppy (a type of flower) + cock (rooster)
poppycock =
As 'precise' as Greek is, there may exist a historical cultural contextual variation on [certain specific] word combinations - in a similar fashion as in English.
Otherwise, we would have a great big 'word component' chart - from which we could put together every possible greek word.
It just doesn't work that way.
Words are derived based on many factors and variations that are over-and-beyond simple spelling, grammar structure, and root-word definitions.
Start with the actual word in scripture and trace it to its component parts through a good lexicon - you will STILL get 'apostasy'.
If you don't, may I suggest that either your lexicon or your skills in using it are lacking...
According to my lexicon, the actual word in scripture is not derived from the two words you want to put together. (Which seems weird, I know - considering the spelling...)
Nonetheless, the derivation of the word in scripture does not come from those two words.
It comes from one of the words and a similar-but-not-the-same word as the other.
You STILL end up with 'apostasy'.
You are 'cherry-picking' to come up with your own definition.
Be honest with yourself and start with the actual word in scripture - and then stay on track...
Stop trying to build-your-own-word from component words.
Sometimes - it simply does not work that way - no matter how much you want it to...
'mailbox' is easy:
mail (correspondence) + box (container)
mailbox = correspondence container
How about this one...?
poppy (a type of flower) + cock (rooster)
poppycock =
As 'precise' as Greek is, there may exist a historical cultural contextual variation on [certain specific] word combinations - in a similar fashion as in English.
Otherwise, we would have a great big 'word component' chart - from which we could put together every possible greek word.
It just doesn't work that way.
Words are derived based on many factors and variations that are over-and-beyond simple spelling, grammar structure, and root-word definitions.
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This is evidence of sloppy mishandling of dictionaries and made up logic. It's easy to see how bad pre-trib handles everything it touches.
In their view, all Greek experts and even the Greek language itself got the meaning of Apostasia wrong. The level of self-deception is truly gross.
It's a blessing to be of those who truly can see with open eyes. This isn't even complicated stuff. Obviously their own claims of the same don't hold water and are factually untrue like when they claim no scripture supporting post tribulation has been posted. How emptier can empty statements be?
In their view, all Greek experts and even the Greek language itself got the meaning of Apostasia wrong. The level of self-deception is truly gross.
It's a blessing to be of those who truly can see with open eyes. This isn't even complicated stuff. Obviously their own claims of the same don't hold water and are factually untrue like when they claim no scripture supporting post tribulation has been posted. How emptier can empty statements be?
And, here is where the error occurs...
Start with the actual word in scripture and trace it to its component parts through a good lexicon - you will STILL get 'apostasy'.
If you don't, may I suggest that either your lexicon or your skills in using it are lacking...
According to my lexicon, the actual word in scripture is not derived from the two words you want to put together. (Which seems weird, I know - considering the spelling...)
Nonetheless, the derivation of the word in scripture does not come from those two words.
It comes from one of the words and a similar-but-not-the-same word as the other.
You STILL end up with 'apostasy'.
You are 'cherry-picking' to come up with your own definition.
Be honest with yourself and start with the actual word in scripture - and then stay on track...
Stop trying to build-your-own-word from component words.
Sometimes - it simply does not work that way - no matter how much you want it to...
'mailbox' is easy:
mail (correspondence) + box (container)
mailbox = correspondence container
How about this one...?
poppy (a type of flower) + cock (rooster)
poppycock =
As 'precise' as Greek is, there may exist a historical cultural contextual variation on [certain specific] word combinations - in a similar fashion as in English.
Otherwise, we would have a great big 'word component' chart - from which we could put together every possible greek word.
It just doesn't work that way.
Words are derived based on many factors and variations that are over-and-beyond simple spelling, grammar structure, and root-word definitions.
Start with the actual word in scripture and trace it to its component parts through a good lexicon - you will STILL get 'apostasy'.
If you don't, may I suggest that either your lexicon or your skills in using it are lacking...
According to my lexicon, the actual word in scripture is not derived from the two words you want to put together. (Which seems weird, I know - considering the spelling...)
Nonetheless, the derivation of the word in scripture does not come from those two words.
It comes from one of the words and a similar-but-not-the-same word as the other.
You STILL end up with 'apostasy'.
You are 'cherry-picking' to come up with your own definition.
Be honest with yourself and start with the actual word in scripture - and then stay on track...
Stop trying to build-your-own-word from component words.
Sometimes - it simply does not work that way - no matter how much you want it to...
'mailbox' is easy:
mail (correspondence) + box (container)
mailbox = correspondence container
How about this one...?
poppy (a type of flower) + cock (rooster)
poppycock =
As 'precise' as Greek is, there may exist a historical cultural contextual variation on [certain specific] word combinations - in a similar fashion as in English.
Otherwise, we would have a great big 'word component' chart - from which we could put together every possible greek word.
It just doesn't work that way.
Words are derived based on many factors and variations that are over-and-beyond simple spelling, grammar structure, and root-word definitions.
poppycock =
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lol, you can't even see that you have disproven your whole "apo is the rapture" by posting a word that means stationary and not moving. Talk about cherry picking!
The fact is Paul did not use Apo or Stasia in 2nd Thess. He used Apostasia which means Apostasy or defection from the truth.
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And, here is where the error occurs...
Start with the actual word in scripture and trace it to its component parts through a good lexicon - you will STILL get 'apostasy'.
If you don't, may I suggest that either your lexicon or your skills in using it are lacking...
According to my lexicon, the actual word in scripture is not derived from the two words you want to put together. (Which seems weird, I know - considering the spelling...)
Nonetheless, the derivation of the word in scripture does not come from those two words.
It comes from one of the words and a similar-but-not-the-same word as the other.
You STILL end up with 'apostasy'.
You are 'cherry-picking' to come up with your own definition.
Be honest with yourself and start with the actual word in scripture - and then stay on track...
Stop trying to build-your-own-word from component words.
Sometimes - it simply does not work that way - no matter how much you want it to...
'mailbox' is easy:
mail (correspondence) + box (container)
mailbox = correspondence container
How about this one...?
poppy (a type of flower) + cock (rooster)
poppycock =
As 'precise' as Greek is, there may exist a historical cultural contextual variation on [certain specific] word combinations - in a similar fashion as in English.
Otherwise, we would have a great big 'word component' chart - from which we could put together every possible greek word.
It just doesn't work that way.
Words are derived based on many factors and variations that are over-and-beyond simple spelling, grammar structure, and root-word definitions.
Start with the actual word in scripture and trace it to its component parts through a good lexicon - you will STILL get 'apostasy'.
If you don't, may I suggest that either your lexicon or your skills in using it are lacking...
According to my lexicon, the actual word in scripture is not derived from the two words you want to put together. (Which seems weird, I know - considering the spelling...)
Nonetheless, the derivation of the word in scripture does not come from those two words.
It comes from one of the words and a similar-but-not-the-same word as the other.
You STILL end up with 'apostasy'.
You are 'cherry-picking' to come up with your own definition.
Be honest with yourself and start with the actual word in scripture - and then stay on track...
Stop trying to build-your-own-word from component words.
Sometimes - it simply does not work that way - no matter how much you want it to...
'mailbox' is easy:
mail (correspondence) + box (container)
mailbox = correspondence container
How about this one...?
poppy (a type of flower) + cock (rooster)
poppycock =
As 'precise' as Greek is, there may exist a historical cultural contextual variation on [certain specific] word combinations - in a similar fashion as in English.
Otherwise, we would have a great big 'word component' chart - from which we could put together every possible greek word.
It just doesn't work that way.
Words are derived based on many factors and variations that are over-and-beyond simple spelling, grammar structure, and root-word definitions.
I have seen pre-tribbers fiddle with apostasia to try to make it mean something else and it still doesn't work.
Another tool in your belt is that changing the meaning of apostasia doesn't actually help the pre-trib rapture because in the context Jesus doesn't return until the man of sin is already in God's temple claiming himself to be God. Jesus "shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."
Jesus shows up to destroy the anti-Christ, one of the main antagonists of the great tribulation. Boom. There you go. No matter how they want to spin it, pre-trib doesn't fit the context. At some point, and I hate to admit it because I love to see the good in people and assume the best, but not every Bible scholar has honest motives in these forums.
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It was given to you numerous times why are you rejecting it???
Matthew ch24 , 1 Thess , 2 Thess , 1 John 2:18-19 , 1 Timothy 4:1 , the Prophets Noah , Daniel and Job , James ch5 , Revelation
Daniel chapter 7 & Revelation 12
Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely,
that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.
“I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,
until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.
And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12
And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Daniel and Revelation CLEARLY says the SAME twice = CLEAR as DAY
The Prophet Daniel, the words of the LORD Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are the source of Paul's Letters to Thessolinica.
#1. No Coming of the LORD until the man of sin is revealed = 2 Thess ch2
#2. The Antichrist is Coming and the Departure from the Faith/Truth 1 John 2:18-19 , 2 Thess ch2 1 Timothy 4:1
#3. 1 Thessalonians 3:1-5 = Paul says "we are destined/appointed to this = Matthew ch24
#4. Matthew ch24 and Luke ch21 Revelation chapters 1- 20 AFTER the Tribulation will the LORD Come for His Elect
#5. Prophet Job , James ch5 - PATIENCE while waiting for the LORD's Coming under GREAT SUFFERING and TRIBULATION
Luke 21:19 By your patience possess your souls.
Revelation 13:9-10 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Revelation 14: 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Matthew ch24 , 1 Thess , 2 Thess , 1 John 2:18-19 , 1 Timothy 4:1 , the Prophets Noah , Daniel and Job , James ch5 , Revelation
Daniel chapter 7 & Revelation 12
Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely,
that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.
“I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them,
until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.
The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.
And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12
And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Daniel and Revelation CLEARLY says the SAME twice = CLEAR as DAY
The Prophet Daniel, the words of the LORD Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are the source of Paul's Letters to Thessolinica.
#1. No Coming of the LORD until the man of sin is revealed = 2 Thess ch2
#2. The Antichrist is Coming and the Departure from the Faith/Truth 1 John 2:18-19 , 2 Thess ch2 1 Timothy 4:1
#3. 1 Thessalonians 3:1-5 = Paul says "we are destined/appointed to this = Matthew ch24
#4. Matthew ch24 and Luke ch21 Revelation chapters 1- 20 AFTER the Tribulation will the LORD Come for His Elect
#5. Prophet Job , James ch5 - PATIENCE while waiting for the LORD's Coming under GREAT SUFFERING and TRIBULATION
Luke 21:19 By your patience possess your souls.
Revelation 13:9-10 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Revelation 14: 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
The word 'apo' is a common-use preposition that means 'away from' (ablative case).
As a somewhat unresearched supposition, I suggest that - if the intent of the word was 'rapture' - and, it was [strictly] built upon component words - it would be based on 'ek' and not 'apo'.
The word 'ek' is a common-use preposition that means 'out of' (ablative case).
You know - "out of this world"...
As a somewhat unresearched supposition, I suggest that - if the intent of the word was 'rapture' - and, it was [strictly] built upon component words - it would be based on 'ek' and not 'apo'.
The word 'ek' is a common-use preposition that means 'out of' (ablative case).
You know - "out of this world"...
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Paul did not invent the rapture or receive a separate message about the rapture outside of what Christ revealed.
Christ revealed that after the tribulation He would return (Matt. 24:29) and Paul described after the tribulation Christ would return (2 Thess. 2:1-3, 8)
Christ said He would have a trumpet call just at or before the rapture (Matt. 24:31) and Paul said Christ would have a trumpet call just at or before the rapture (1 Thess. 4:16, 1 Cor. 15:52)
Jesus said the elect would be gathered (Matt. 24:31) and Paul said the elect would be gathered (2 Thess. 2:1,1 Thess. 4:17)
Why do you insist that the post-trib rapture that Christ described and that Paul agrees with aren't the same event despite overwhelming evidence presented to you?
We can also go into how Christ and Paul agree that the first resurrection is post-trib as well in later posts.
Christ revealed that after the tribulation He would return (Matt. 24:29) and Paul described after the tribulation Christ would return (2 Thess. 2:1-3, 8)
Christ said He would have a trumpet call just at or before the rapture (Matt. 24:31) and Paul said Christ would have a trumpet call just at or before the rapture (1 Thess. 4:16, 1 Cor. 15:52)
Jesus said the elect would be gathered (Matt. 24:31) and Paul said the elect would be gathered (2 Thess. 2:1,1 Thess. 4:17)
Why do you insist that the post-trib rapture that Christ described and that Paul agrees with aren't the same event despite overwhelming evidence presented to you?
We can also go into how Christ and Paul agree that the first resurrection is post-trib as well in later posts.
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By your patient endurance you will gain your souls. Luke 21:19
Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.
Do not [grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience. Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.
But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath. But let your “Yes” be “Yes,” and your “No,” “No,” lest you fall into judgment.
James 5:7-12
Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.
Do not [grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience. Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.
But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath. But let your “Yes” be “Yes,” and your “No,” “No,” lest you fall into judgment.
James 5:7-12
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And, here is where the error occurs...
Start with the actual word in scripture and trace it to its component parts through a good lexicon - you will STILL get 'apostasy'.
If you don't, may I suggest that either your lexicon or your skills in using it are lacking...
According to my lexicon, the actual word in scripture is not derived from the two words you want to put together. (Which seems weird, I know - considering the spelling...)
Nonetheless, the derivation of the word in scripture does not come from those two words.
It comes from one of the words and a similar-but-not-the-same word as the other.
You STILL end up with 'apostasy'.
You are 'cherry-picking' to come up with your own definition.
Be honest with yourself and start with the actual word in scripture - and then stay on track...
Stop trying to build-your-own-word from component words.
Sometimes - it simply does not work that way - no matter how much you want it to...
'mailbox' is easy:
mail (correspondence) + box (container)
mailbox = correspondence container
How about this one...?
poppy (a type of flower) + cock (rooster)
poppycock =
As 'precise' as Greek is, there may exist a historical cultural contextual variation on [certain specific] word combinations - in a similar fashion as in English.
Otherwise, we would have a great big 'word component' chart - from which we could put together every possible greek word.
It just doesn't work that way.
Words are derived based on many factors and variations that are over-and-beyond simple spelling, grammar structure, and root-word definitions.
Start with the actual word in scripture and trace it to its component parts through a good lexicon - you will STILL get 'apostasy'.
If you don't, may I suggest that either your lexicon or your skills in using it are lacking...
According to my lexicon, the actual word in scripture is not derived from the two words you want to put together. (Which seems weird, I know - considering the spelling...)
Nonetheless, the derivation of the word in scripture does not come from those two words.
It comes from one of the words and a similar-but-not-the-same word as the other.
You STILL end up with 'apostasy'.
You are 'cherry-picking' to come up with your own definition.
Be honest with yourself and start with the actual word in scripture - and then stay on track...
Stop trying to build-your-own-word from component words.
Sometimes - it simply does not work that way - no matter how much you want it to...
'mailbox' is easy:
mail (correspondence) + box (container)
mailbox = correspondence container
How about this one...?
poppy (a type of flower) + cock (rooster)
poppycock =
As 'precise' as Greek is, there may exist a historical cultural contextual variation on [certain specific] word combinations - in a similar fashion as in English.
Otherwise, we would have a great big 'word component' chart - from which we could put together every possible greek word.
It just doesn't work that way.
Words are derived based on many factors and variations that are over-and-beyond simple spelling, grammar structure, and root-word definitions.
As you already know, many Greek words have different meanings, as demonstrated by the Amplified text. (Sometimes those writers took liberties and their own theories got added beyond what the Greek said.)
Poppycock: look up the Dutch original meaning. It has not changed much in meaning from its original use!
Some have argued that "taken out of the way" from the Greek should be "gone from the midst." If so, that does not change the meaning.
One thing I have noticed: you have sidestepped the questions! Since you claim that I am mistaken, then you must know.
Do a little exegesis - explain the entire passage.
Why did Paul write, "and now you know..."
Why did Paul show us the man of sin revealed in 3b, when in 6-8 he explained that could not happen until the restrainer was taken out of the way. By the way, who or what did Paul mean by the restrainer? He said, "now you know" so you must know.
By the way, there is not that much difference in meaning between a falling away (from what is not specified) and a departing. If you will note, King James translators did not specify what was being fallen away from what. What they did miss is the "THE" falling away or departing. All the Greek texts shows THE meaning a significant departing. But what do I know? In Greek there seems to be 24 different ways to write and article such as "a" or "the." I think it is fair to say that in context Paul must have meant a departing all would recognize.
False premise to say "it is Paul's"
only CHRIST - only HIS Resurrection - Paul a servant of the LORD
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
You can say: "the Apostle Paul taught and wrote about the LORD's gathering of the Saints" = Psalm 147
Praise the Lord!
For it is good to sing praises to our God;
For it is pleasant, and praise is beautiful.
The Lord builds up Jerusalem;
He gathers together the outcasts of Israel.
He heals the brokenhearted
And binds up their wounds.
He counts the number of the stars;
He calls them all by name.
Great is our Lord, and mighty in power;
His understanding is infinite.
The Lord lifts up the humble;
He casts the wicked down to the ground.
only CHRIST - only HIS Resurrection - Paul a servant of the LORD
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
You can say: "the Apostle Paul taught and wrote about the LORD's gathering of the Saints" = Psalm 147
Praise the Lord!
For it is good to sing praises to our God;
For it is pleasant, and praise is beautiful.
The Lord builds up Jerusalem;
He gathers together the outcasts of Israel.
He heals the brokenhearted
And binds up their wounds.
He counts the number of the stars;
He calls them all by name.
Great is our Lord, and mighty in power;
His understanding is infinite.
The Lord lifts up the humble;
He casts the wicked down to the ground.