A racist God?

[randyk]

A racist God?
I've heard non-Christians accuse Christianity of being bigoted because our beliefs view gays as sinners, or non-Christians as lost. Things like that.

And then there are legitimate Christians who read about God killing everybody in the Flood, and killing all of Israel's enemies in Canaan. They don't blink an eye reading it, but they scarcely raise a question about it being "genocide" at a Bible Study!

So let me suggest that the OT quarantine of Israel against pagan influence was not bigotry, nor racism. It was not ethnic pride. Rather, God wanted to begin His testimony of Eternal Salvation among the nations by producing in Israel the initial example of it.

To do that, He had to separate His religion from all other religions, and provide a consistent set of beliefs, which were clearly incompatible with pagan religions. And so, He did not let the people of Israel fraternize and intermarry with these pagans, so as to maintain a true testimony to who God is and what His religion comprises among the nations.

Since God planned to expand the message of His Salvation to all nations out of the testimony of Israel's national history there would come a time when Israel could fraternize and intermarry among the nations. But that was only after God's true religion had been properly sent to, so as to be received by, the nations. Then, the Jews could intermarry and fraternize with those among the nations who shared the belief in the one true God and in the one true religion.

In this, there is consistency from OT to NT. Once it came time for Israel to send the testimony of their national history under God to the nations, and the nations started receiving it, then the door was opened to international partnership between godly people of all nations and races.

This is just being true to a religion, and has nothing to do with racism or bigotry. This is the consistent standard of the God of Israel, and also of the God of Jesus.
Jesus was the important point where Israel's historical testimony came to a head, and was ready to be delivered to the nations. And that's because that was the point where Israel had so failed that pagan nations became equally qualified to receive the mercy that Israel so sorely needed.

And Jesus became the focal point giving mercy both to Israel and to the nations. They came to be viewed as standing on the same ground, equally in need of mercy.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The Bible actually clears these things up, but most Christians have little understanding of the Bible, hence, they are unable to, well . . . clear these things up.

God allowed the provision for Israel to marry those from the East, who happen to be Gentiles. However, those from the Seven Nations, these "people" were abominations called by God Himself to be destroyed. Why would the Lord allow Israel to marry Gentiles? Because ultimately, they, the ones whom the Lord will select, will be "grafted in."

Below are the notes I've acquired over the years. Pardon me if there are errors.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NKJV - 10 "When you go out to war against your enemies, and the LORD your God delivers them into your hand, and you take them captive, 11 "and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and desire her and would take her for your wife, 12 "then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails. 13 "She shall put off the clothes of her captivity, remain in your house, and mourn her father and her mother a full month; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 "And it shall be, if you have no delight in her, then you shall set her free, but you certainly shall not sell her for money; you shall not treat her brutally, because you have humbled her."

Gentiles from the East were given to the Jews for intermarriage. - Because these people are allowed to live (these verses are an extension of Deut 20:01-20), they cannot be considered as part of the Seven Nations who God calls to destroy. It seems that a Jewish man could marry Gentile women from the East. Chapter 20, verse 15 makes a clear distinction between the Seven Nations and the Eastern Nations far away from Israel. Because to the West is water, to the East must mean Gentile Nations. - God is providing the allowance for marriage to these people, but not to those of Deut 20:14, where God lists out all Seven Nations who are called to be destroyed. (See Also: Gen 25:06, Deut 20:01-20, 1 Kings 08:41-45 = 2 Chron 06:32,33, Psa 146:09, Matt 15:22-28 for supporting verses.) - It is said that those of the East were Gentiles, and it is Gen 25:06 that proves it.

 

[randyk]

The Bible actually clears these things up, but most Christians have little understanding of the Bible, hence, they are unable to, well . . . clear these things up.

God allowed the provision for Israel to marry those from the East, who happen to be Gentiles. However, those from the Seven Nations, these "people" were abominations called by God Himself to be destroyed. Why would the Lord allow Israel to marry Gentiles? Because ultimately, they, the ones whom the Lord will select, will be "grafted in."

Below are the notes I've acquired over the years. Pardon me if there are errors.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NKJV - 10 "When you go out to war against your enemies, and the LORD your God delivers them into your hand, and you take them captive, 11 "and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and desire her and would take her for your wife, 12 "then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails. 13 "She shall put off the clothes of her captivity, remain in your house, and mourn her father and her mother a full month; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 "And it shall be, if you have no delight in her, then you shall set her free, but you certainly shall not sell her for money; you shall not treat her brutally, because you have humbled her."

Gentiles from the East were given to the Jews for intermarriage. - Because these people are allowed to live (these verses are an extension of Deut 20:01-20), they cannot be considered as part of the Seven Nations who God calls to destroy. It seems that a Jewish man could marry Gentile women from the East. Chapter 20, verse 15 makes a clear distinction between the Seven Nations and the Eastern Nations far away from Israel. Because to the West is water, to the East must mean Gentile Nations. - God is providing the allowance for marriage to these people, but not to those of Deut 20:14, where God lists out all Seven Nations who are called to be destroyed. (See Also: Gen 25:06, Deut 20:01-20, 1 Kings 08:41-45 = 2 Chron 06:32,33, Psa 146:09, Matt 15:22-28 for supporting verses.) - It is said that those of the East were Gentiles, and it is Gen 25:06 that proves it.

My view of this is that the Canaanites were expressly banned because God had given them a long time to repent of their wicked ways, and they had ultimately become so hardened in their ways that marrying them, or partnering with them in business, would be like countenancing their wickedness. It would bring temptation into Israel.

In ancient times, God only knew Israel as a nation. Therefore, not only the Canaanites were excluded from marriage and partnership, but *all nations.* And that's because all nations were pagan, and God did not want His people infected with the sinful lifestyle.

This doesn't mean God rejected and damned all people in the Gentile nations--He planned to bring the Gospel to them when He could provide a full historical testimony of Israel for them. Israel could indeed marry converts to Judaism. When they captured a young woman who was young and possibly not hardened in sin, an examination was made by the interested man to see if she looked like a viable candidate for conversion. So they weren't marrying pagan Gentiles, but rather, Gentile converts.

Solomon went over the top by marrying actual pagan women, in order to make peace with foreign kings--he married their daughters to prevent war between their peoples. And in the time before the Captivity and even after the Captivity, Israel simply disobeyed the Law and went ahead and married pagan women. God was unhappy. These weren't just Canaanites, but Babylonians, etc. They were unconverted pagan women. If they had been converted, their ethnicity would have made no difference.

 

[justbyfaith]

Tennessee doctrine states that Canaan was cursed with black skin and that he would be subject to Shem and Japheth in slavery because of that curse.

God further indicates His prejudice against certain negroes when He says this:

Zec 14:21, Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

I am merely playing the devil's advocate here in order to provoke a response; not advocating prejudice.

Thoughts and/or opinions, anyone?

 

[soberxp]

Tennessee doctrine states that Canaan was cursed with black skin and that he would be subject to Shem and Japheth in slavery because of that curse.

God further indicates His prejudice against certain negroes when He says this:

Zec 14:21, Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

I am merely playing the devil's advocate here in order to provoke a response; not advocating prejudice.

Thoughts and/or opinions, anyone?

God sends rain to the righteous and to the wicked.

 

[justbyfaith]

God sends rain to the righteous and to the wicked.

Your point?

 

[soberxp]

Your point?

Matthew
5: 44 but I say to you, love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you.
5: Then you may be the son of your heavenly Father, for he makes the sun shine on good and evil; Rain is given to the righteous and to the unrighteous.
5: If you love only those who love you. What's the reward? Isn't that the same for tax collectors?

 

[justbyfaith]

Here is what I would really say on this subject...

Rev 5:9, And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

But what is your take on the verses that I related before?

 

[soberxp]

Here is what I would really say on this subject...

Rev 5:9, And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain,

But what is your take on the verses that I related before?

in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

Perhaps Canaanites no longer call themselves Canaanites, so there are no more Canaanites.Or It's all new made by God.

Moreover, Canaanites do not represent all blacks or other races.

 

[Blik]

My view of this is that the Canaanites were expressly banned because God had given them a long time to repent of their wicked ways, and they had ultimately become so hardened in their ways that marrying them, or partnering with them in business, would be like countenancing their wickedness. It would bring temptation into Israel.

Right! God did not ban Canaanites because they were Canaanites, God banned people who had given themselves over to demons so completely they were a danger to people who were alive in the Lord, they were dead in their sins. God did not kill them, their sins did.

God is not a human, God is a spirit and all his ways and actions are of the spirit. We are not to assign earthly designations of people to the ways of God. Humans put labels on humans, saying they are not individuals but lump all individuals into a certain category saying all individuals in that category are the same. God does not. There is no Canaanite only, Israel only, or gentiles only with God.

 

[iTheophilus]

And then there are legitimate Christians who read about God killing everybody in the Flood, and killing all of Israel's enemies in Canaan. They don't blink an eye reading it, but they scarcely raise a question about it being "genocide" at a Bible Study!

God's actions should never be questioned. God destroyed the people in the Flood and in Canaan for a reason. The inflow of Nephilim was to blame (the giants). Obviously, ten of the spies were terrified by their size. The descendants of Anak were the progeny of the fallen angels, and the Amalekites were descendants of Esau's lineage.

"Nevertheless the people who dwell in the land are strong; the cities are fortified and very large; moreover we saw the descendants of Anak there. "The Amalekites dwell in the land of the South; the Hittites, the Jebusites, and the Amorites dwell in the mountains; and the Canaanites dwell by the sea and along the banks of the Jordan." Then Caleb quieted the people before Moses, and said, "Let us go up at once and take possession, for we are well able to
overcome it." But the men who had gone up with him said, "We are not able to go up against the people, for they are stronger than we." And they gave the children of Israel a bad report of the land which they had spied out, saying, "The land through which we have gone as spies is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people whom we saw in it are men of great stature. "There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight." - Numbers 13:28-33 (NKJV)

sis Theophilus

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

God's actions should never be questioned. God destroyed the people in the Flood and in Canaan for a reason. The inflow of Nephilim was to blame (the giants). Obviously, ten of the spies were terrified by their size. The descendants of Anak were the progeny of the fallen angels, and the Amalekites were descendants of Esau's lineage.

"Nevertheless the people who dwell in the land are strong; the cities are fortified and very large; moreover we saw the descendants of Anak there. "The Amalekites dwell in the land of the South; the Hittites, the Jebusites, and the Amorites dwell in the mountains; and the Canaanites dwell by the sea and along the banks of the Jordan." Then Caleb quieted the people before Moses, and said, "Let us go up at once and take possession, for we are well able to
overcome it." But the men who had gone up with him said, "We are not able to go up against the people, for they are stronger than we." And they gave the children of Israel a bad report of the land which they had spied out, saying, "The land through which we have gone as spies is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people whom we saw in it are men of great stature. "There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight." - Numbers 13:28-33 (NKJV)

sis Theophilus

Agreed. These weren't "people." These were total abominations which is why God told Israel to kill them off more than once. If we were taught these things, we'd have a different perspective (and gut feeling) regarding their deaths. Their deaths weren't horrible, they were necessary.

 

[Oblio]

And they're not just giants!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Genesis 15:16
But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

The grace of God is there. It was not until there was no more hope that God did what he did

We cna use the same reasoning for the flood. People had over 100 years to repent. But they did not.. Its not like God just said, "ok I am done, you all die tomorrow.."

 

[soberxp]

So where did the extinct giants come from after the great flood ?

 

[justbyfaith]

in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

Perhaps Canaanites no longer call themselves Canaanites, so there are no more Canaanites.Or It's all new made by God.

Moreover, Canaanites do not represent all blacks or other races.

Right.

I saw a thing on GodTV a while back where it showed a bunch of black people worshiping God and the caption read, "I am Cush; not cursed."

 

[Aerials1978]

According to those that truly hate God(Yes, I believe that is their true motivation) God is a maniacal, oppressive, murdering, megalomaniac dictator. Of course now with modern political discourse with regards to ethnicity, God is also a racist bigot. I’m sure the Lord is as of right now evaluating His privilege to make amends.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
Racism per se isn't evil. Problems relevant to race stem from blending;
which is a practice contrary to God's intent for the various ethnic groups to
stay within their own boundaries.

• Acts 17:26 . . From one man he made every nation of men, that they
should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined the times set for them
and the exact places where they should live.

What we know today as racism used to be called tribalism; which can be
roughly defined as fraternal loyalty to one's ethnic identity-- which I don't
think is wrong, but I do think it's being wrongfully vilified.
_

 

[Aerials1978]

.
Racism per se isn't evil. Problems relevant to race stem from blending;
which is a practice contrary to God's intent for the various ethnic groups to
stay within their own boundaries.

• Acts 17:26 . . From one man he made every nation of men, that they
should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined the times set for them
and the exact places where they should live.

What we know today as racism used to be called tribalism; which can be
roughly defined as fraternal loyalty to one's ethnic identity-- which I don't
think is wrong, but I do think it's being wrongfully vilified.
_

Well racism within it self is an evil. What’s being propagated especially in the US is an attempt to dismantle the current system and replace it with one that is predicated on an individuals skin color and not equality under the law. Of course this is all crap and end goal is a population that is beholden to a minority group of elites with no tolerance for dissension.

 

[justbyfaith]

If anything, it is critical race theory (the 1619 project) that is racist.

They teach that white people are the oppressors and that we are "white devils"...

It is like, now that white people are accepting the doctrines of Martin Luther King, Jr., they are attempting to teach black people the opposite of that.

So that black supremacy will become the doctrine of the people who are of that people group.

First they denounce the sins of white people; and then they embrace those same sins in their own people group.

If racism is so bad, certain black people need to recognize it in themselves and denounce it as it is being promoted in our elementary schools.