How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
The Gathering in Heaven is TRUE = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep/died, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep/died in Jesus.

There are no raptured Saints in Heaven and there won't be until HIS Coming and the First Resurrection.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

After that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
The last I knew, dead people were buried ON EARTH. Paul's gathering happens on earth where dead people are buried and where the alive and in Christ walk.

However, to be fair, " from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven" (from Mark 13) could be just a manner of speech. Today we might say, from everywhere people are...

Let's stop here for a while: this is after the entire 70th week (the trib) is over: "after the tribulation of those days..." Where are all of God's people by this time? The truth is, the church will have been in heaven for 7 plus years. The Old Testament saints, having been resurrected "on the last day" will have been in heaven perhaps a few days. They will all be at the marriage and supper that will take place in heaven.

Do you know what this means? A posttrib rapture is a myth. The church will be returning from the wedding as one of the armies on white horses. Jesus will be returning from the wedding. "ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding..." (Luke 12)

Who then is this gathering for? Who is to be "gathered?"

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. (Isaiah 11)


Jeremiah 23:3
And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

Jeremiah 29:14
And I will be found of you, saith the Lord: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the Lord; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.

Jeremiah 31:10
Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

Ezekiel 11:17
Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.

Ezekiel 20:34
And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

Ezekiel 20:41
I will accept you with your sweet savour, when I bring you out from the people, and gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen.

Ezekiel 28:25
Thus saith the Lord God; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob.

Ezekiel 39:28
Then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
This is not true.

The wording of Matthew 24:16-19 / Mark 13:14b-17 / Luke 21:21,23 helps to establish the fact that all three accounts are describing the same event at the same singular time in history - circa 70 A.D. The fact that the details of all three are not identical does not take away from this.

The fact that the descriptions of two of the accounts are more similar than the third does not mean the third account is "totally different" in time-and-event context.

The time-and-event context is the same for all three accounts.

The near-exactness of Matthew 24:19 / Mark 13:17 / Luke 21:23 is a major key element of this conclusion.

Furthermore, Luke 21:24 is highly unlikely to be in a future time frame - especially within a short range of time.

I believe the wording of this verse is such that we know it is describing a long period of time and not a short one.

I have attempted to explain why Matthew 24:15 / Mark 13:14 / Luke 21:20 are actually saying the-very-same-exact-thing.

The parenthetical phrases in the Matthew and Mark accounts are necessary for the understanding of it.

They are there for a reason!

Unless you (whoever) learn to "let go of" the predetermined assumption that is erroneously made due to the lack of having a proper understanding of what is actually being said in these verses - by virtue of the parenthetical phrases (which the first-century Christians, being Jews, understood perfectly) - you (whoever) are not ever going to make sense of it.

You must "let go of" that assumption.

It is that simple.

The contextual alignment of these verses is absolutely certain.

But, you (whoever) absolutely must "let go of" the preconceived notion that the Matthew and Mark accounts are saying/suggesting that [people] are going to "see" the "actual" AoD 'event'.

As difficult as it is to try to imagine - it is not saying that.

If/When you (whoever) understand what the parenthetical phrases mean - that the Jews understood perfectly - "it becomes clear-as-a-bell"...

But, you (whoever) must first be able/willing to "unlearn" that preconceived notion!

It is that simple.
I think there should be a LOT of "un-learning" needed, but it is not on the pretrib side.

(as an aside, do you also unclimb a ladder, having climbed it? Are from New Orleans?)
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
Jesus interjects with details about the 70 A.D. destruction exclusively in Luke 21 (in effusive detail I might add).......which details are added to none other of the parallel accounts. .

The ignorance of which will inevitably relegate those so blinded to this fact to an erroneous or even heretical view of end time prophecy.

Furthermore, this crucial omission and error is an extremely common one.
I am convinced Jesus KNEW another abomination event was coming, at the end of the age. He gave a vision to John about it. Anyone can try and make the future an historic event, but it simply does not work for most people. They see it as nonsense.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
Member lamad said: "The last I knew, dead people were buried ON EARTH. Paul's gathering happens on earth where dead people are buried and where the alive and in Christ walk."

the LORD says:

The Gathering in Heaven and on Earth is TRUE = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep/died, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep/died in Jesus.

There are no raptured Saints in Heaven and there won't be until HIS Coming and the First Resurrection.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

After that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

When we die our bodies are buried in the earth - NO Dead Bodies are in Heaven - don't be ignorant of this.

For this reason I will not be negligent to remind you always of these things, though you know and are established in the present truth. Yes, I think it is right, as long as I am in this tent, to stir you up by reminding you, knowing that shortly I must put off my tent, just as our Lord Jesus Christ showed me.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

I do not want you to be ignorant of these things Brethren.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,993
8,367
113
This is not true.

The wording of Matthew 24:16-19 / Mark 13:14b-17 / Luke 21:21,23 helps to establish the fact that all three accounts are describing the same event at the same singular time in history - circa 70 A.D. The fact that the details of all three are not identical does not take away from this.

The fact that the descriptions of two of the accounts are more similar than the third does not mean the third account is "totally different" in time-and-event context.

The time-and-event context is the same for all three accounts.

The near-exactness of Matthew 24:19 / Mark 13:17 / Luke 21:23 is a major key element of this conclusion.

Furthermore, Luke 21:24 is highly unlikely to be in a future time frame - especially within a short range of time.

I believe the wording of this verse is such that we know it is describing a long period of time and not a short one.

I have attempted to explain why Matthew 24:15 / Mark 13:14 / Luke 21:20 are actually saying the-very-same-exact-thing.

The parenthetical phrases in the Matthew and Mark accounts are necessary for the understanding of it.

They are there for a reason!

Unless you (whoever) learn to "let go of" the predetermined assumption that is erroneously made due to the lack of having a proper understanding of what is actually being said in these verses - by virtue of the parenthetical phrases (which the first-century Christians, being Jews, understood perfectly) - you (whoever) are not ever going to make sense of it.

You must "let go of" that assumption.

It is that simple.

The contextual alignment of these verses is absolutely certain.

But, you (whoever) absolutely must "let go of" the preconceived notion that the Matthew and Mark accounts are saying/suggesting that [people] are going to "see" the "actual" AoD 'event'.

As difficult as it is to try to imagine - it is not saying that.

If/When you (whoever) understand what the parenthetical phrases mean - that the Jews understood perfectly - "it becomes clear-as-a-bell"...

But, you (whoever) must first be able/willing to "unlearn" that preconceived notion!

It is that simple.
Gary........I've already got it all sorted out buddy. End-time eschatology is an utterly comprehensive, seamless, rigorously proven, indefatigable certainty. For me and many others.

These debates are moot and I chime in when I think I can offer something edifying (which is probably not that often).
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,993
8,367
113
I think there should be a LOT of "un-learning" needed, but it is not on the pretrib side.

(as an aside, do you also unclimb a ladder, having climbed it? Are from New Orleans?)
Indeed. Once you know the genuine article the counterfeits are instantaneously obvious.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
The four gospels are different, but that doesn't make them any less invalid. So that line of thinking doesn't really make sense to me.

For example, Luke 21's Olivet Discourse is different than Mark 13 and Matthew 24. Scriptures don't always include literally all of the available information the writer could have written. The Holy Spirit guides people in different ways at different times.

Jesus talked about His return in Luke 21 differently than in Mark 13 and Matthew 24, gathering the elect wasn't even mentioned in Luke 21, but that doesn't mean the elect aren't gathered.

Paul also describes the rapture differently in 1 Thessalonians 4 compared to 1 Corinthians 15, saying "the dead in Christ will rise first and we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye." 1 Thessalonians 4 doesn't say we'll be changed like how 1 Corinthians 15 does after the first resurrection. That doesn't mean it's talking about an entirely different resurrection and and rapture.

This comes down to an issue of hermeneutics. You need to see how scriptures can say different things while talking about the same subject. This is evident through context.
Alas! That is why we have umpteen different major denominations: "that line of thinking doesn't really make sense to me..." What doesn't make sense to one, makes perfect sense to another. The difference in PRECONCEPTIONS. When a new thought comes, the human brain searches the storage to find where to place the new information (something similar). If nothing is found, usually the brain just dumps it. That is why it is so difficult to pull someone out of a cult.

That being said, the DIFFERENCES between His coming and the gathering in Matthew 24 are to great for me to assume they are the same coming. It makes perfect sense to me that He comes pretrib and prewrath FOR His saints, then comes over 7 years later WITH His saints. This theory makes sense to untold millions of believers around the world. I have questioned believers in Africa and in the Underground church in China. In both places people believe in a pretrib rapture. When I asked WHY they believed in pretrib, the answer was universal: "its what the bible teaches."

Granted, classical pretrib has HUGE Holes in their theory: first, there is no rapture in Revelation 4:1. Paul shows us his rapture is just before wrath. Second, the 70th week DOES NOT start with the first seal: it starts with the 7th seal. These are two huge mistakes that many pretribbers need to correct.

All that being said, John saw the raptured church in heaven (as the great crowd too large to number) BEFORE He saw and wrote of the start of the 70th week. That means PRE-tribulation PRE-70th week.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
Definition of dissension



: disagreement especially : partisan and contentious quarreling causing dissension within the police department a colony threatened by religious dissension




This still a reference to Apostasy or falling away from the truth
And it still must be how the man of sin is revealed in 3b.
It also must satisfy verses 6-8 as the restraining power being taken out of the way. I don't think people leaving the church meets this as well as the departing of the church.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
Yes but it is a religious departing not a physical one. It is Apostasy and how that Apostasy happens is through unbiblical doctrines that teach people to commit Apostasy/Apostasia. The line is very long for the Apostasy.
You are free to believe that, as I am free to believe it is a physical departing.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
The HOLY SPIRIT made clear what the departure is = 2 Thess 2:1-3 , 1 Timothy 4:1 , 1 John 2:18-19

HE, the SPIRIT of TRUTH, never lies.
I agree: when reading Daniel 9 one day, when my eyes and my mind read the word "midst" in verse 27, suddenly God spoke: I heard His voice and His words. He said, "You could find that exact midpoint clearly marked in Revelation..." I believe God speaks through the Holy Spirit. That was the start of many times He spoke words to me. You are right, He never lies.

That being said, many people imagine it is God they heard, when in fact they heard their own human spirit. There are many "voices" one can hear. One must learn to hear GOD's voice and know the difference between His voice and others.

As for 2 Thes. 2, I doubt you heard the voice of the Holy Spirit.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
I agree: when reading Daniel 9 one day, when my eyes and my mind read the word "midst" in verse 27, suddenly God spoke: I heard His voice and His words. He said, "You could find that exact midpoint clearly marked in Revelation..." I believe God speaks through the Holy Spirit. That was the start of many times He spoke words to me. You are right, He never lies.

That being said, many people imagine it is God they heard, when in fact they heard their own human spirit. There are many "voices" one can hear. One must learn to hear GOD's voice and know the difference between His voice and others.

As for 2 Thes. 2, I doubt you heard the voice of the Holy Spirit.
#1. You definitely are hearing voices and they are NOT the Holy Spirit - the HOLY SPIRIT does not lie - pre-trib is a lie.

#2. And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

the LORD has fulfilled the first part of Daniel ch7 an ch9. All that is in the waiting is under the control and Will of God which HE has already spoken thru the LORD, the Apostles and the Prophets = Daniel ch11 & 12 = 2 Thess 2 = 1 John 2:18-19 = Revelation and finally Matt ch24 and 1 Thess 4:13-18 , Prophet Job , James ch5

Study my friend - study the Scriptures which you are currently 'uninformed' of - PEACE
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Alas! That is why we have umpteen different major denominations: "that line of thinking doesn't really make sense to me..." What doesn't make sense to one, makes perfect sense to another. The difference in PRECONCEPTIONS. When a new thought comes, the human brain searches the storage to find where to place the new information (something similar). If nothing is found, usually the brain just dumps it. That is why it is so difficult to pull someone out of a cult.
True enough.

That being said, the DIFFERENCES between His coming and the gathering in Matthew 24 are to great for me to assume they are the same coming. It makes perfect sense to me that He comes pretrib and prewrath FOR His saints, then comes over 7 years later WITH His saints. This theory makes sense to untold millions of believers around the world. I have questioned believers in Africa and in the Underground church in China. In both places people believe in a pretrib rapture. When I asked WHY they believed in pretrib, the answer was universal: "its what the bible teaches."
I don't doubt that there are millions of pre-tribbers, but there are more post-tribbers. Post-trib rapture is much more popular in Christianity than the pre-trib because post-trib has the benefit of being plainly stated and taught consistently through scripture. The weakness of pre-trib is that it just isn't mentioned explicitly in the Bible and that's normally repulsive to people who respect Sola Scriptura.

Post-trib rapture is also the earliest known view of the end times and is often part of a theology known as historic premillennialism.

Granted, classical pretrib has HUGE Holes in their theory: first, there is no rapture in Revelation 4:1. Paul shows us his rapture is just before wrath. Second, the 70th week DOES NOT start with the first seal: it starts with the 7th seal. These are two huge mistakes that many pretribbers need to correct.
The only problem is that those are assumptions. For example, there isn't a verse that just says something like "Before the great tribulation, Jesus will return to rapture the church." It doesn't exist. The pre-trib theory is built on inferences and doesn't have enough Biblical support. It also creates contradictions. That's why most people just reject the pre-trib. I hope you see it one day.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
Indeed. Once you know the genuine article the counterfeits are instantaneously obvious.
Like the counterfeit of saying the rapture is the "falling away".

Like the counterfeit of "No Bride of Christ mentioned in Matthew ch24".

Like the counterfeit of "multiple Comings of the LORD and rapture(s) BEFORE the First Resurrection."

the LORD warned us of these counterfeits in His word = Matthew ch24 , James ch5 , Revelation

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith,

Notice how the HOLY SPIRIT says "expressly"
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
#1. You definitely are hearing voices and they are NOT the Holy Spirit - the HOLY SPIRIT does not lie - pre-trib is a lie.

#2. And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.

the LORD has fulfilled the first part of Daniel ch7 an ch9. All that is in the waiting is under the control and Will of God which HE has already spoken thru the LORD, the Apostles and the Prophets = Daniel ch11 & 12 = 2 Thess 2 = 1 John 2:18-19 = Revelation and finally Matt ch24 and 1 Thess 4:13-18 , Prophet Job , James ch5

Study my friend - study the Scriptures which you are currently 'uninformed' of - PEACE
That is your opinion, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, millions believe you are wrong.
Worse, you are wrong but imagine you are right, making it worse by two.
You have not found and corrected your mistake, so worse times 3.

Chances are great you don't know where that "exact midpoint" is. You probably don't even know where the 70th week begins or where the real rapture is on Revelation's timeline. Yet you SEEM to such an expert. Again I am reminded of Socrates: "the ills of the whole world are caused by those who THINK they know, when in fact, they don't."

You can quote scriptures or addresses "till the cows come home," but understanding them is something different altogether. We all agree that the scriptures tell us the truth, as far as the translators get it right.

Question: what event written in the New Testament do you think will put and end to the daily sacrifices and offerings?
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Alas! That is why we have umpteen different major denominations: "that line of thinking doesn't really make sense to me..." What doesn't make sense to one, makes perfect sense to another. The difference in PRECONCEPTIONS. When a new thought comes, the human brain searches the storage to find where to place the new information (something similar). If nothing is found, usually the brain just dumps it. That is why it is so difficult to pull someone out of a cult.

That being said, the DIFFERENCES between His coming and the gathering in Matthew 24 are to great for me to assume they are the same coming. It makes perfect sense to me that He comes pretrib and prewrath FOR His saints, then comes over 7 years later WITH His saints. This theory makes sense to untold millions of believers around the world. I have questioned believers in Africa and in the Underground church in China. In both places people believe in a pretrib rapture. When I asked WHY they believed in pretrib, the answer was universal: "its what the bible teaches."

Granted, classical pretrib has HUGE Holes in their theory: first, there is no rapture in Revelation 4:1. Paul shows us his rapture is just before wrath. Second, the 70th week DOES NOT start with the first seal: it starts with the 7th seal. These are two huge mistakes that many pretribbers need to correct.

All that being said, John saw the raptured church in heaven (as the great crowd too large to number) BEFORE He saw and wrote of the start of the 70th week. That means PRE-tribulation PRE-70th week.
I also might add, that the pre-tribulation rapture view is required in dispensational premillennialism. That is due to your interpretation of the church in relation to Israel. You see a sharp distinction between the church and Israel, thus requiring that some believers be raptured before the great tribulation.

The Bible also doesn't teach that there is a distinction between Israel and the church.

This sums it up nicely:

Romans 2:28-29
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Across the board the dispensational premillennialism and the pre-trib rapture theory just don't stand to scrutiny.
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
Like the counterfeit of saying the rapture is the "falling away".

Like the counterfeit of "No Bride of Christ mentioned in Matthew ch24".

Like the counterfeit of "multiple Comings of the LORD and rapture(s) BEFORE the First Resurrection."

the LORD warned us of these counterfeits in His word = Matthew ch24 , James ch5 , Revelation

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith,

Notice how the HOLY SPIRIT says "expressly"
Like the counterfeit of "No Bride of Christ mentioned in Matthew ch24". So show us the verse!

Like the counterfeit of "No Bride of Christ mentioned in Matthew ch24". You incorrectly seem to imagine the "first" resurrection is one moment in time at the end. Jesus took part in that first resurrection when He rose from the dead.

Yes, the Lord warned us not to be deceived. So did Paul. Then why are there posttrib believers? It is deceit all the way. Paul's rapture comes BEFORE WRATH. John shows us the start of God's wrath is BEFORE the 70th week begins.

We all agree that "some" depart - but when one departs, I believe two come in. John shows us a VICTORIOUS church, not a defeated one.

We are still waiting for proof that the gathering "after the tribulation" is Paul's gathering. It is is truth, there MUST be scripture....
 

lamad

Well-known member
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
I also might add, that the pre-tribulation rapture view is required in dispensational premillennialism. That is due to your interpretation of the church in relation to Israel. You see a sharp distinction between the church and Israel, thus requiring that some believers be raptured before the great tribulation.

The Bible also doesn't teach that there is a distinction between Israel and the church.

This sums it up nicely:

Romans 2:28-29
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Across the board the dispensational premillennialism and the pre-trib rapture theory just don't stand to scrutiny.
You are simply mistaken.

It seems Luke and Paul disagree with you, keeping Jews and Gentiles separate in their writing.

God poured out the Holy Spirit on the Jew and Gentile alike.
Acts 10:45
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.


The Jews resisted the gospel (for the most part) while the Gentiles accepted it.
Acts 13:42
And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Both Jew and Gentiel are under sin.
Romans 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Romans 3:29
Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:


God calls both the Jew and the Gentile.
Romans 9:24
Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Romans 11:11
I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 2:8
(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?


Dispensations? Did you not read?


  • 1 Corinthians 9:17

    For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

  • Ephesians 1:10
    That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

  • Ephesians 3:2
    If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

  • Colossians 1:25
    Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
If the KJV translators could call Paul's gospel a dispensation, I feel very comfortable believing in dispensations.
I also believe the bible clearly teaches premillennialism.