In Revelation 4:4 John speaks of 24 Elders seated around the Throne of God, clothed in white raiment and on their heads crowns of gold. Its been said that 12 of them are most likely the apostles that were with Christ during His ministry on Earth and that 12 are the heads or fathers of each of the 12 tribes of Israel ( the 12 sons of Jacob ). This appears to make sense since in Revelation 21:12 it mentions that the names of the 12 tribes of the children is Israel are written on the gates of the city of New Jerusalem and that the city had 12 foundations on which were the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb ( Rev. 21:14 ) . Comments ?
24 Elders seated around the throne, who are they ?
- Thread starter lawrence101
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I was told in school, I guess no way of really knowing, that they are all preachers and prophets of God.
12 represent the Old Testament, being prophets. 12 represent the New Testament being preachers.
The reasoning behind this is that God recognizes the entire period of time that His work and salvation has been on earth.
It could very well be the 12 apostles representing the New Testament as you said.
But then again I find it difficult to believe that Paul was left out, so it's hard to say.
12 represent the Old Testament, being prophets. 12 represent the New Testament being preachers.
The reasoning behind this is that God recognizes the entire period of time that His work and salvation has been on earth.
It could very well be the 12 apostles representing the New Testament as you said.
But then again I find it difficult to believe that Paul was left out, so it's hard to say.
Yes i've read somewhere that 12 could be old testament prophets, but there are 16 prophetic books mentioned in the old testament. 4 are considered major prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel. The remaining 12 being Hosea, Joel , Amos , Obadiah , Jonah , Micah , Nahum , Habakkuk , Zephaniah , Haggai , Zechariah and Malachi, all of which are considered minor prophets. I dont see how they fit the narative though, but something to ponder.
We must also keep in mind that there are other old testament prophets that were mentioned in scripture but do not have a book named after them , the prophet Nathan comes to mind.
Some have said that there are 12 patriarchs in the old testament. The only ones i see are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, if they mean the 12 sons of Jacob are the Patriarchs then we are back to square one as i mentioned them in my opening post.
We must also keep in mind that there are other old testament prophets that were mentioned in scripture but do not have a book named after them , the prophet Nathan comes to mind.
Some have said that there are 12 patriarchs in the old testament. The only ones i see are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, if they mean the 12 sons of Jacob are the Patriarchs then we are back to square one as i mentioned them in my opening post.
Luk_6:13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
Just throwing out there that the 12 disciples are the same people that are known as the 12 Apostles so can't get 24 out of that group.
I think we might have to consider these 24 elders aren't human nor were born or died. God has made living "things" that aren't human but serve him.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
O
Matthew 19:27 Then Peter said in reply, “Lo, we have left everything and followed you. What then shall we have?” 28 Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of man shall sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
-
1
- Show all
Right but the word just means old or elderly and could speak of living beings God created before creating man. They have clothes and wear crowns and play harps (the four beasts also are said to have harps).
It's hard to know what form they have. A crown would imply one head and harp playing some amount of hands/arms. They are likely humanoid like angels are but hard to know for sure.
Also, there is no specific group of 24 outside of Revelation which makes it harder to identify them.
I also noticed the term "twenty and four" only appears in the OT while the NT uses "four and twenty" (This is in the OT twice though) . This might be related to the grammar of Hebrew and Greek.
-
1
- Show all
I would say I completely agree ( just my own thoughts ) 12 are the sons of isreal and twelve are the apostles including Paul and negating Judas of course , and Matthias also not chosen by the Holy Spirit.
so 12 being the original sons of Jacob who received the blessing when Israel died. Who became the foundations of the ot
And then 12 apostles chosen by Jesus who witnessed the foundation of the nt
because like you show in your post , there are 24 names written on the kingdom John sees the twelve sons of Israel’s names , and the twelve apostles names like your saying I think it shows Old Testament and new people of all ages
“And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”
Revelation 21:12, 14
just my view sounds like it agrees with yours God bless
so 12 being the original sons of Jacob who received the blessing when Israel died. Who became the foundations of the ot
And then 12 apostles chosen by Jesus who witnessed the foundation of the nt
because like you show in your post , there are 24 names written on the kingdom John sees the twelve sons of Israel’s names , and the twelve apostles names like your saying I think it shows Old Testament and new people of all ages
“And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”
Revelation 21:12, 14
just my view sounds like it agrees with yours God bless
-
1
- Show all
Yes exactly , Luke 6:13 was the verse i was thinking of but could not find it, thank you.
The general conscensus is that 12 are the apostles chosen by Christ, as to the other 12 its not so certain.
whether they are all "beasts" or 'living creatures" opens another area of discussion. Some may argue that its just figurative but thats not what Ezekiel saw.
Theres a interesting animated utube video on that:
The general conscensus is that 12 are the apostles chosen by Christ, as to the other 12 its not so certain.
whether they are all "beasts" or 'living creatures" opens another area of discussion. Some may argue that its just figurative but thats not what Ezekiel saw.
Theres a interesting animated utube video on that:
That makes sense for I do not believe they would be angels or created beings apart from humans.
And it is called the New Jerusalem and God said Israel is a world without end.
Also Jesus is the beginning of creation, and the firstborn among the creatures, and the angels desire to look in to the salvation of the saints, and they are ministers to the saints.
So it was all created for people and angels assist in that creation.
So if it has to be humans around the throne for the creation is for them and they will have a higher position in heaven than that of the angels and Israel is world without end and the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes of Israel are written in the New Jerusalem then it would seem like the 24 elders would be the 12 apostles who were Hebrews and the 12 sons of Jacob who were Hebrews.
And it is called the New Jerusalem and God said Israel is a world without end.
Also Jesus is the beginning of creation, and the firstborn among the creatures, and the angels desire to look in to the salvation of the saints, and they are ministers to the saints.
So it was all created for people and angels assist in that creation.
So if it has to be humans around the throne for the creation is for them and they will have a higher position in heaven than that of the angels and Israel is world without end and the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes of Israel are written in the New Jerusalem then it would seem like the 24 elders would be the 12 apostles who were Hebrews and the 12 sons of Jacob who were Hebrews.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Zec 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
Zec 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
Zec 4:13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
Zec 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
I believe Moses and Elijah are the 2 anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth but not part of the 24 elders.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Zec 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
Zec 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
Zec 4:13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
Zec 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
I believe Moses and Elijah are the 2 anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth but not part of the 24 elders.