He Who Spares His Rod Hates His Son

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Proverbs 13:24 NKJV - "He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly."

Surely, I can't be the only one here who is mystified by this passage. Is there a Biblical example of a child being beaten into Righteousness? I've read the Bible several times and I cannot think of a single instance.

What do you think?

Wouldn't whipping your child be considered "embittering" them? Certainly, that's what my parents did to me and I loathed them. My parents were quick to beat me, and slow to Love. In turn, when I became a step-father, I remember spanking my young step-son because he didn't set his alarm clock for school. I slapped his butt as he trodded down the stairs - I sent him off to school crying. What a jerk I was!!!!!

So, my spanking my amazing step-son did two things: It embittered his heart towards me and to this day, I have sadness in my heart over what I did.

I don't have children of my own nor do I ever see myself having step-children again (yes, I am divorced). And I cannot imagine ever lifting a hand to a child ever again . . . for I see many benefits in being patient and kind versus beating their little bodies. After all, children are guilty of so much less than any adult. We, adults, are horrific in our sins, or at least we used to be, and yet [we] should go unpunished? Children are punished harshly for the petty little things that children do, yet we adults seem to get away with whatever we like . . . and with impunity. With impunity!

 

[studentoftheword]

Proverbs 13:24 NKJV - "He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly."

Surely, I can't be the only one here who is mystified by this passage. Is there a Biblical example of a child being beaten into Righteousness? I've read the Bible several times and I cannot think of a single instance.

What do you think?

Wouldn't whipping your child be considered "embittering" them? Certainly, that's what my parents did to me and I loathed them. My parents were quick to beat me, and slow to Love. In turn, when I became a step-father, I remember spanking my young step-son because he didn't set his alarm clock for school. I slapped his butt as he trodded down the stairs - I sent him off to school crying. What a jerk I was!!!!!

So, my spanking my amazing step-son did two things: It embittered his heart towards me and to this day, I have sadness in my heart over what I did.

I don't have children of my own nor do I ever see myself having step-children again (yes, I am divorced). And I cannot imagine ever lifting a hand to a child ever again . . . for I see many benefits in being patient and kind versus beating their little bodies. After all, children are guilty of so much less than any adult. We, adults, are horrific in our sins, or at least we used to be, and yet [we] should go unpunished? Children are punished harshly for the petty little things that children do, yet we adults seem to get away with whatever we like . . . and with impunity. With impunity!

I say ----This is what I think

This is why it is so important to look up the words that are used in the Scripture in the original language -----God would never give instructions to anyone to beat a child -----Proverbs here is talking about the wise and the foolish and what happens when we pay attention to wise correction and what happens when we don't ------YOU need to read this Proverb in its's context ---

Many --many people have used this verse 24 to justify physically beating their child and that is just wrong ------

The rod here in this scripture means Correction -----not using the rod to beat a child -----

Strong’s Definitions
מַטֶּה maṭṭeh, mat-teh'; or (feminine) מַטָּה maṭṭâh; from H5186; a branch (as extending); figuratively, a tribe; also a rod, whether for chastising (figuratively, correction),

The first verse here --gives us the clue as to what the Rod is meaning in this scripture ------

Proverbs 13
English Standard Version
13 A wise son hears his father's instruction


I say -----
A Good parent will always correct the bad actions of their Children and give good instructions for them to follow ---if they don't then they are showing they don't love their child ---they are in fact an enemy of their child

The word hate here in this scripture means

Strong's Concordance

sane: to hate -----enemy, foe
​

I say --God Himself Corrects His Children when they disobey Him -----as all loving parents should do ---- God says All Children are a Blessing and has never in His Word condoned Beating or abusing a child in any way shape or form -----

Satan is our Spiritual enemy and anyone who takes this scripture or any other Scripture and uses it to condone beating a child is being directed by our Spiritual Enemy --not God ----

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

YOU need to read this Proverb in its's context

Thanks! The all caps "YOU" was interesting.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I say ----This is what I think

This is why it is so important to look up the words that are used in the Scripture in the original language -----God would never give instructions to anyone to beat a child -----Proverbs here is talking about the wise and the foolish and what happens when we pay attention to wise correction and what happens when we don't ------YOU need to read this Proverb in its's context ---

Many --many people have used this verse 24 to justify physically beating their child and that is just wrong ------

The rod here in this scripture means Correction -----not using the rod to beat a child -----

Strong’s Definitions
מַטֶּה maṭṭeh, mat-teh'; or (feminine) מַטָּה maṭṭâh; from H5186; a branch (as extending); figuratively, a tribe; also a rod, whether for chastising (figuratively, correction),

The first verse here --gives us the clue as to what the Rod is meaning in this scripture ------

Proverbs 13
English Standard Version
13 A wise son hears his father's instruction


I say -----
A Good parent will always correct the bad actions of their Children and give good instructions for them to follow ---if they don't then they are showing they don't love their child ---they are in fact an enemy of their child

The word hate here in this scripture means

Strong's Concordance
sane: to hate -----enemy, foe

I say --God Himself Corrects His Children when they disobey Him -----as all loving parents should do ---- God says All Children are a Blessing and has never in His Word condoned Beating or abusing a child in any way shape or form -----

Satan is our Spiritual enemy and anyone who takes this scripture or any other Scripture and uses it to condone beating a child is being directed by our Spiritual Enemy --not God ----

“If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭21:18-21‬ ‭

I’m not sure if one reads the Bible we would determine a spanking by a father would be abuse . I personally received a few spankings as a kid and I sure don’t consider it abuse but good parenting .

I think abuse of anyone is not biblically taught , but I’m quite glad I received discipline as a kid it saved me from a lot of big mistakes that would have caused actual harm to me

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

“If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭21:18-21‬ ‭

I’m not sure if one reads the Bible we would determine a spanking by a father would be abuse . I personally received a few spankings as a kid and I sure don’t consider it abuse but good parenting .

I think abuse of anyone is not biblically taught , but I’m quite glad I received discipline as a kid it saved me from a lot of big mistakes that would have caused actual harm to me

Wow. I find it curious as to why I would NOT have taken note of this in my complete Biblical studies.

@Pilgrimshope , I think you just cleared this one up for me. Haha

BTW: I'm glad I wasn't born of those days. I may not have survived. But why? My parents seemed rather hypocritical. They seemed to believe that they could commit all kinds of heinous "crimes" and never pay any form of punishment, but as a child, if we did one little thing wrong . . . we'd be struck with anything and everything. This behavior of theirs certainly embittered me as a kid, thus, I rebelled against my rebellious parents.

 

[Charlie24]

“If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭21:18-21‬ ‭

I’m not sure if one reads the Bible we would determine a spanking by a father would be abuse . I personally received a few spankings as a kid and I sure don’t consider it abuse but good parenting .

I think abuse of anyone is not biblically taught , but I’m quite glad I received discipline as a kid it saved me from a lot of big mistakes that would have caused actual harm to me

I think there are many of us who were spanked (out right beaten in some cases) and for the most part with good intentions from the parents. I believe in a literal "rod" but also an explanation of why the rod is being used.

If course the temper takes control of us and we don't always do what we actually intend to do as parents. I know I'm guilty of this!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I think there are many of us who were spanked (out right beaten in some cases) and for the most part with good intentions from the parents. I believe in a literal "rod" but also an explanation of why the rod is being used.

If course the temper takes control of us and we don't always do what we actually intend to do as parents. I know I'm guilty of this!

I agree. We need to [be] the person that we want our children to [become]. And if we are NOT the person that we want our children to become, no doubt we will cause emotional damage to our children through our negligent handling of "the rod."

 

[p_rehbein]

Gills Exopsition says:

Proverbs 13:24
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
He that spareth his rod hateth his son,.... Who withholds or withdraws his rod of correction, which is in his hand, which he has power to use, and ought to exercise at proper times; he, instead of loving his son, may be said to hate him; for such fond love is no better than hatred; and, if he really hated him, he could scarcely do a more ill thing by him than not to correct him for a fault; which was the sin of good old Eli, and both he and his sons suffered for it;
but he that loveth him; that has a true love for his son, and a hearty concern for his welfare and future good; he will regulate his affections by his judgment, and not give way to a fond passion, to the prejudice of his child: but he
chasteneth him betimes, or "in the morning" (x); in the morning of his infancy, before vicious habits are contracted, or he is accustomed to sinning, and hardened in it; or as soon as a crime is perpetrated, before it is forgot or repeated: or every morning, as Jarchi and Aben Ezra; that is, continually, as often as it is necessary, or as faults are committed.
(x) "mane castigat eum", Munster; "matutinat ei disciplinam", Michaelis.

HERE:

Proverbs 13 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

 

[Jocund]

Spanking is a broad category of physical punishment procedures. Some types of spanking are effective.

I don't see anything wrong with it when it is done right.

 

[Runningman]

I say ----This is what I think

This is why it is so important to look up the words that are used in the Scripture in the original language -----God would never give instructions to anyone to beat a child -----Proverbs here is talking about the wise and the foolish and what happens when we pay attention to wise correction and what happens when we don't ------YOU need to read this Proverb in its's context ---

Many --many people have used this verse 24 to justify physically beating their child and that is just wrong ------

The rod here in this scripture means Correction -----not using the rod to beat a child -----

Strong’s Definitions
מַטֶּה maṭṭeh, mat-teh'; or (feminine) מַטָּה maṭṭâh; from H5186; a branch (as extending); figuratively, a tribe; also a rod, whether for chastising (figuratively, correction),

The first verse here --gives us the clue as to what the Rod is meaning in this scripture ------

Proverbs 13
English Standard Version
13 A wise son hears his father's instruction


I say -----
A Good parent will always correct the bad actions of their Children and give good instructions for them to follow ---if they don't then they are showing they don't love their child ---they are in fact an enemy of their child

The word hate here in this scripture means

Strong's Concordance
sane: to hate -----enemy, foe

I say --God Himself Corrects His Children when they disobey Him -----as all loving parents should do ---- God says All Children are a Blessing and has never in His Word condoned Beating or abusing a child in any way shape or form -----

Satan is our Spiritual enemy and anyone who takes this scripture or any other Scripture and uses it to condone beating a child is being directed by our Spiritual Enemy --not God ----

That seems to be the most accurate interpretation since we can rule out physically beating children as effective due to the lifelong emotional, mental, and physical scars that can cause. That leaves their overall development at a handicap, even if there are some short term goals achieved such as obedience through pain compliance, the long term effect is often traumatic stress disorder.

The end state of such a parent/child relationship is one of fear, pain, and broken trust.

God rules with love, it's people who rule with fear.

 

[Aaron56]

The rod represents a standard. If we do not hold our children to a standard they will become unable to represent the house.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The rod represents a standard. If we do not hold our children to a standard they will become unable to represent the house.

I appreciate that. I was even thinking that the Rod could have been the "Rod of God" which could equate to a loving form of Rod. However, I looked up the word (Strongs h7626) and sure enough, it likely represents a switch, branch, stick etc, to use for physical punishment. I was disappointed to see that. But hey, you all helped me get to the bottom of this and I appreciate it!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I think there are many of us who were spanked (out right beaten in some cases) and for the most part with good intentions from the parents. I believe in a literal "rod" but also an explanation of why the rod is being used.

If course the temper takes control of us and we don't always do what we actually intend to do as parents. I know I'm guilty of this!

yeah abuse is always going to
Come from anger reacting in haste and everything or being part of a cycle of it . Having been raised in abuse often beggars abuse due her in others and the next generations

I think however parenting requires correction the rod doesn’t have to be literal i don’t think but some form of correction that actually imposes consequences that affect the kid is necassary 100 percent to parent a kid

it’s not love to raise kids without any discipline , later in life they will suffer for it

“He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭13:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭29:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭19:18‬ ‭

We can raise kids that have no real sense of right and wrong , deed and consequence ect and I’m sure a lot of kids don’t really need spankings maybe raising ones voice is enough or standing in a corner whatever works I needed what my mama called “whoopins “ because I was a pretty hard headed youngster.

she tried the explaining things to me , the sitting me down and gently talking ect but after a short time it didn’t work so the ole switch became her rod to correct me and instill fear so I’d listen when she got serious

“Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭22:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some of us need more discipline than others I’m sure each parent that really cares about thier child’s adult life and thier character is going to have thier own way of discipline spankings worked perfectly for me as a kid and I have no hard feelings or childhood trauma stories just parents to at cared a lot and didn’t put up with my b.s. so I learned

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Wow. I find it curious as to why I would NOT have taken note of this in my complete Biblical studies.

@Pilgrimshope , I think you just cleared this one up for me. Haha

BTW: I'm glad I wasn't born of those days. I may not have survived. But why? My parents seemed rather hypocritical. They seemed to believe that they could commit all kinds of heinous "crimes" and never pay any form of punishment, but as a child, if we did one little thing wrong . . . we'd be struck with anything and everything. This behavior of theirs certainly embittered me as a kid, thus, I rebelled against my rebellious parents.

yes I thank God I wasn’t born under Moses law also lol it’s actually pretty terrifying how they lived .

and yes I think all of us have transgressed the law in some ways whether dishonoring parents , or some other commandment we broke and should be extremely Thankful we have the gospel

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

yes I thank God I wasn’t born under Moses law also lol it’s actually pretty terrifying how they lived .

and yes I think all of us have transgressed the law in some ways whether dishonoring parents, or some other commandment we broke and should be extremely Thankful we have the gospel

No doubt, Pilgrim. I'd be scared to death. Even Judah called to have his own DIL stoned when he thought was being promiscuous. What a ridiculously hypocritical and painful story to read.

 

[Aaron56]

I appreciate that. I was even thinking that the Rod could have been the "Rod of God" which could equate to a loving form of Rod. However, I looked up the word (Strongs h7626) and sure enough, it likely represents a switch, branch, stick etc, to use for physical punishment. I was disappointed to see that. But hey, you all helped me get to the bottom of this and I appreciate it!

That is the domestic view of scripture. When we think of a ruler in a classroom we think of a 12-inch stick. But the reason it’s a ruler is because it’s a standard and it rules the realm of measurement.

I wonder why, of all the definitions of “rod”, you chose a stick for punishment when one of the definitions is a “stick for ruling”.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No doubt, Pilgrim. I'd be scared to death. Even Judah called to have his own DIL stoned when he thought was being promiscuous. What a ridiculously hypocritical and painful story to read.

yes many stories like that made me really investigate Moses law and why it appears as it does and in the nt I discovered this thought

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it makes sense why if the law was added 430 years after the promise to Abraham because of transgression , it reads “ Thou shalt not “ Thou shalt not “ Thou shalt not , or you must surely be put to death “

It is added in because of the sinfulness of the people and not Gods law where sin has been remitted , but the law under Gods wrath for sin so even the slightest sin under the law meant a brutal death

“And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:32-33, 35-36‬ ‭

It would have been a terribly burdensome law to have to witness against each other , judge each other by two witnesses and execute one another even our own children weren’t to be pitied or spared.

I think propbably one of the most terrifying times to live in history of one wasn’t absolutely holy and perfect in the camp of Israel. The stuff of nightmares and lynchmobs murder by false accusations against others I’m glad for Jesus and the New Testament for sure I’d rather forgive other sinners and do the best I can to help people rather than carry out the law upon them

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

That is the domestic view of scripture. When we think of a ruler in a classroom we think of a 12-inch stick. But the reason it’s a ruler is because it’s a standard and it rules the realm of measurement.

I wonder why, of all the definitions of “rod”, you chose a stick for punishment when one of the definitions is a “stick for ruling”.

Uhhh . . . what? Did I choose? I created this post so that you all could provide me with context and options.

 

[Aaron56]

Uhhh . . . what? Did I choose? I created this post so that you all could provide me with context and options.

I apologize. I believe I misunderstood your post.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

yes many stories like that made me really investigate Moses law and why it appears as it does and in the nt I discovered this thought

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it makes sense why if the law was added 430 years after the promise to Abraham because of transgression , it reads “ Thou shalt not “ Thou shalt not “ Thou shalt not , or you must surely be put to death “

It is added in because of the sinfulness of the people and not Gods law where sin has been remitted , but the law under Gods wrath for sin so even the slightest sin under the law meant a brutal death

“And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:32-33, 35-36‬ ‭

It would have been a terribly burdensome law to have to witness against each other , judge each other by two witnesses and execute one another even our own children weren’t to be pitied or spared.

I think propbably one of the most terrifying times to live in history of one wasn’t absolutely holy and perfect in the camp of Israel. The stuff of nightmares and lynchmobs murder by false accusations against others I’m glad for Jesus and the New Testament for sure I’d rather forgive other sinners and do the best I can to help people rather than carry out the law upon them

Amen. I appreciate your these thoughts indeed.

What I find interesting about the Judah story is that, if I recall correctly, God shortly thereafter forbade having sex with your daughter. In other words, law had been given regarding promiscuity from someone such as Tamar (even though it was Judah who was the rat), but no law was yet to be given for sex with your daughter, or daughter-in-law.

There were laws slowly given before the Law of Moses was issued. This is the time period that I refer to as "pre-law of Moses."

Studying the Law is amazing. Pre-law, the law of Moses, the Moral Law, and the final stage of the law boils down to the Laws of the Spirit of Life (Rom 8:2).

What an unbelievable book we have.