If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?

[Laura798]

@Laura798 @Pilgrimshope You two made this thread worth every second of it.

The insights are amazing. As i said previously i was in the other camp not long ago ...it never occurred to me that i could not call JESUS ...LORD (King) today with that mentality. They just don't see that yet.

i'm now wondering if satan became bound on Pentecost. The HOLY SPIRIT holds him back.

oops--mistake in my previous response--'meant 'error' not 'area'.
2) And why thinking He is not reigning now is a very serious doctrinal error

 

[John146]

You placed service BEFORE salvation which made it into an error.
Salvation by works/service is condemned by God, since the beginning - GENESIS.

Elect has nothing to do with gaining salvation. Did Jesus need salvation? Israel was God's elect, and yet many of them perished.

 

[DavidTree]

did you miss the part where is says satan is judged and cast out now?


John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

John 16:11

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.”

Nope, i got it, thank you Brother - did you notice what it did not say???

It did not say: Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.

Cast out is one thing - satan is still free to roam about on earth and the earthly realm.
He was definitely cast out, but not placed in prison.

The Scripture is clear - satan being bound only ocurs at the LORD's Second Coming.

 

[DavidTree]

Elect has nothing to do with gaining salvation. Did Jesus need salvation? Israel was God's elect, and yet many of them perished.

You said: "Elect has nothing to do with gaining salvation." This also is error.

Please read Romans, Gospel of John, Galatians and Ephesians 1 Peter and Acts - PEACE

 

[pittsburghjoe]

“I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus has the authority to promise an escape from death the second death of course bekng the one referred to we all die once but we can live afterwards with God in the kingdom paid for by Jesus blood but promised by his words in the gospel of the kingdom

his works are before the cross , and now bekng glorified in death and resurrection and seated at Gods right hand in heaven making intercession for us still who can ever condemn us ?

“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:34-35, 37-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

speaking the New testament was Jesus work. Because before he was there advocating for us this was at Gods right hand constantly accusing us for any transgression we’ve made

“Take this book of the law, and put it at the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That needed to be fixed

is satan bound from accusing us? is he sealed from Heaven to accuse us night and day?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Colossians 2:14–15 makes it clear what happened to the powers of evil through Christ's ministry, especially what He accomplished on the cross: "[He] cancel[ed] the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him." This indicates that wicked powers were defeated in principle at the cross of Christ. When Jesus purged all of our sins on Calvary, something happened to Satan. The evil one lost his authority to keep people back from God. He was bound by what Jesus did. https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/binding-satan

Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, --Hebrews 2:14

He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,--Colossians 1:12

This adds to the idea that satan has been taken out of the courtroom. Sounds like a sealed and bound satan to me.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

it’s a spiritual kingdom

“But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christ is eeeted on his throne already it’s why he was taken up to heaven

“Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:30, 32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

David’s throne of the kingdom is eternal Gods right hand in heaven that’s where Christ is reigning from now. There’s a kingdom in heaven where Christ is seated in the throne. The kingdom follows the king he brought it to earth and we see his word commanding evil spirits , raising the dead , forgiving sins , healing the blind and lame

if the kingdom wasn’t here throne things could t have happened Jesus is seated in the kingdom now earths chaos is because satan was cast out of heaven into earth because Christ has been seated in heaven mt sion and Gods city is In heaven

“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So when we see scriptire like this

“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s showing you Jesus in heaven along with The faithful of Israel’s children.
My sion is in heaven it’s where the kingdom is now when we die who believe we are going to enter into that kingdom d in the end that heavenly kingdom will come to the new earth

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-

the kingdom was announced on earth so people can enter it and it is in full swing in heaven as satans war is in full swing on earth

Mount Zion and Mount Sion is the same thing, right?

i asked this question on another site, you just answered it:
Did JESUS start Reigning in David's throne (Luke 1:32) after the 70 weeks of Daniel, because David's seat was on Mount Zion which represents GOD'S Kingdom?

Luke 1:32-33
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Is the Judgment by JESUS to end Jerusalem tell us that He is Reigning over The House of Jacob from Mount Zion (GOD'S Kingdom) as a King (Luke 19:41-44)? "and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."

 

[DavidTree]

This adds to the idea that satan has been taken out of the courtroom. Sounds like a sealed and bound satan to me.

Except that it does not state anything about satan being bound and placed in prison.

Since the Scripture, which cannot lie, says that satan only gets bound, sealed and locked up in prison at the LORD's Second Coming,
no one should be saying otherwise.

Whenever we seek to form a doctrine, that doctrine must adhere and conform to Scripture - if it fails in one point, it all fails and must be reexamined.

The problem arises when we fail to observe and obey what is written in favor of the doctrine that is contrary to Scripture.

So, one must say to themself - at the LORD's Second Coming shall satan be bound as it is written - amen

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Except that it does not state anything about satan being bound and placed in prison.

Since the Scripture, which cannot lie, says that satan only gets bound, sealed and locked up in prison at the LORD's Second Coming,
no one should be saying otherwise.

Whenever we seek to form a doctrine, that doctrine must adhere and conform to Scripture - if it fails in one point, it all fails and must be reexamined.

The problem arises when we fail to observe and obey what is written in favor of the doctrine that is contrary to Scripture.

So, one must say to themself - at the LORD's Second Coming shall satan be bound as it is written - amen

Show me scripture saying satan only gets bound on JESUS' Second Coming. The "thousand" years before His Coming is when satan is "bound".

What do you think "now" means?


John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

John 16:11
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.”

 

[DavidTree]

Show me scripture saying satan only gets bound on JESUS' Second Coming. The "thousand" years before His Coming is when satan is "bound".

What do you think "now" means?


John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

John 16:11
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.”

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

The FIRST Resurrection only takes place at His Second Coming which is in Revelation chapters 19 - 20.

Read 1 Thessalonians & 2 Thessalonians & 1 John & 1 Cor ch15

PEACE Brother

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

The FIRST Resurrection only takes place at His Second Coming which is in Revelation chapters 19 - 20.

Read 1 Thessalonians & 2 Thessalonians & 1 John & 1 Cor ch15

PEACE Brother

i'm starting to see why JESUS said it was an Angel that bound satan ...He didn't want us confusing it with His Return.

Archangel Michael did kick satan out.

 

[DavidTree]

i'm starting to see why JESUS said it was an Angel that bound satan ...He didn't want us confusing it with His Return.

Archangel Michael did kick satan out.

Correct, God is not the author of confusion so HE places the lock up of satan with the LORD's Second Coming - not before.

The Archangel Michael only kicks satan out of heaven - no lock up of satan until the Second Coming of the LORD.

Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels.
And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world.
He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. - Revelation ch12

God is not the author of confusion.

PEACE

 

[ewq1938]

i'm starting to see why JESUS said it was an Angel that bound satan ...He didn't want us confusing it with His Return.

That doesn't prove anything other than it was not Jesus who bound satan. It does happen after Christ has returned and that angel binds and imprisons satan which is not the Amill version of satan's binding which doesn't involve an angel or a prison just a long invisible chain that is the gospel that restricts satan but doesn't stop or imprison him. That's not what the bible describes.

An angel binds satan, not the gospel.
The angels uses a symbolic chain to bind satan, not the gospel.
The angel locks satan inside of a bottomless pit prison, the gospel is not used.

This happens after the saints of the Great Tribulation are beheaded and the Great Tribulation has not started yet so everything about Amill is false and unbiblical.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

satan is in a bottomless pit, he doesn't have leverage to own everyone anymore. you can't win a court case if you are not allowed in.

 

[DavidTree]

That doesn't prove anything other than it was not Jesus who bound satan. It does happen after Christ has returned and that angel binds and imprisons satan which is not the Amill version of satan's binding which doesn't involve an angel or a prison just a long invisible chain that is the gospel that restricts satan but doesn't stop or imprison him. That's not what the bible describes.

An angel binds satan, not the gospel.
The angels uses a symbolic chain to bind satan, not the gospel.
The angel locks satan inside of a bottomless pit prison, the gospel is not used.

This happens after the saints of the Great Tribulation are beheaded and the Great Tribulation has not started yet so everything about Amill is false and unbiblical.

Revelation 2:12-13

“And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,

‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

 

[DavidTree]

satan is in a bottomless pit, he doesn't have leverage to own everyone anymore. you can't win a court case if you are not allowed in.

Revelation 2:12-13

“And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,

‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

This Clear Scripture directly refutes that Satan was bound at the Cross.

We love you Brother and want the best for you.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Revelation 2:12-13

“And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,

‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

This Clear Scripture directly refutes that Satan was bound at the Cross.

We love you Brother and want the best for you.

i'm saying to be "bound" is not what you want it to be. satan is the accuser ...the accuser is bound from the courtroom.

 

[DavidTree]

i'm saying to be "bound" is not what you want it to be. satan is the accuser ...the accuser is bound from the courtroom.

That would be 'barred' from the Court of Heaven.

Bound means he is unable to do anything whereas Barred means you cannot enter the Court.

Just as it is written: "Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison," Rev 2:10

as it is written: "Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour."
1 Peter 5:8

 

[Laura798]

This adds to the idea that satan has been taken out of the courtroom. Sounds like a sealed and bound satan to me.

So my thinking is Satan will be loosed when the anti-christ is revealed since Revelation says Satan is loosed to 'deceive the nations'--Satan will work thru him as he did with Hitler. This is an idea that is forming in my head--I need to study it further--so many things coming to mind because of this thread!

3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?6And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.9The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,10and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
—2 Thessalonians 2:3–10

 

[DavidTree]

i'm saying to be "bound" is not what you want it to be. satan is the accuser ...the accuser is bound from the courtroom.

Also this happens here in Revelation chapter 12

Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels. And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying:

“Now have come the salvation and the power

and the kingdom of our God,

and the authority of His Christ.

For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down—

he who accuses them day and night before our God.