Daniel Chapter two
- Thread starter JLG
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Only the `10 toes` are the same as the `10 kings` of the 4th beast in Dan. 7.
Islam is from other scriptures.
The Assyrian. (Isa. 31: 8) That is the region of Iraq, Syria and Jordan. They were one region until the allies after WW 1 divided them up between Britain and France. That is the uprooting of the 3 horns, the 3 kingdoms, which will come under the A/C`s rule. (Dan. 7: 8)
The King of the north, (of Israel). (Dan. 11: 40) That is the region that was part of the divided up after Alexander died. Dan. 11 goes through what happened in that region till the `appointed time.`
The king of Babylon. (Rev. 17 & 18) (Zech. 6: 5 - 11 tells of the economic and religious aspects of the Global Government going to the land of Shinar - Iraq and Babylon.)
Islam is from other scriptures.
The Assyrian. (Isa. 31: 8) That is the region of Iraq, Syria and Jordan. They were one region until the allies after WW 1 divided them up between Britain and France. That is the uprooting of the 3 horns, the 3 kingdoms, which will come under the A/C`s rule. (Dan. 7: 8)
The King of the north, (of Israel). (Dan. 11: 40) That is the region that was part of the divided up after Alexander died. Dan. 11 goes through what happened in that region till the `appointed time.`
The king of Babylon. (Rev. 17 & 18) (Zech. 6: 5 - 11 tells of the economic and religious aspects of the Global Government going to the land of Shinar - Iraq and Babylon.)
I think you are asking me.
Islam is the final Gentile Global Government. The fifth ruler in God`s Great Image of the Gentile`s ruling. (Dan. 2)
Then when we get to Dan. 7 God is showing us what is the lead up to the final GG. That is why the `10 toes` are shown as `10 kings,` the final Gentile GG.
Islam is the final Gentile Global Government. The fifth ruler in God`s Great Image of the Gentile`s ruling. (Dan. 2)
Then when we get to Dan. 7 God is showing us what is the lead up to the final GG. That is why the `10 toes` are shown as `10 kings,` the final Gentile GG.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
You seem to have missed this comment I made.
.....partly strong and partly weak - Sunni and Shi-ite aspects of Islam.
`As the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile.` (Dan. 2: 42)
Who is killing Christians in Afghanistan, Nigeria etc....?
And BTW I do not see the EU killing Christians or even wanting to go to war.
.....partly strong and partly weak - Sunni and Shi-ite aspects of Islam.
`As the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile.` (Dan. 2: 42)
Who is killing Christians in Afghanistan, Nigeria etc....?
And BTW I do not see the EU killing Christians or even wanting to go to war.
I really don't think that the iron and clay are talking about Islam. In my opinion, what the iron and clay are representing is a familiar Bible contrast; those who are strong in faith and those who are not; much the same as only part of the virgins were ready at Christ's coming in the parable of the virgins, so also only some are in the faith correctly at that time while some are not. Remember, in the Bible, iron can be a picture of the word of wisdom (iron sharpens iron - Ecc 10:10, Proverbs 27:17); Daniel chapter 2 tells us that the clay and the iron are divided and do not mix. Remember, Jesus came not to bring peace but division in terms of salvation; some are in his word and some are not
E
you seemed to have missed the point of the passage.
1. They rule the world. Not christians.
2. Partly strong and partly weak is in reference to the fact it is not a complete dictatorship. The 9 kings give their power to the beast (man of sin) but it is loosely bound.
3. There are ten kings. Not 2
4. Its not religion. It is a Gentile nation who is ruling the world
5. Again, Islam can not even conquer Israel. How are they going to military conquer the world and hold off the kings who will go against her?
1. They rule the world. Not christians.
2. Partly strong and partly weak is in reference to the fact it is not a complete dictatorship. The 9 kings give their power to the beast (man of sin) but it is loosely bound.
3. There are ten kings. Not 2
4. Its not religion. It is a Gentile nation who is ruling the world
5. Again, Islam can not even conquer Israel. How are they going to military conquer the world and hold off the kings who will go against her?
E
I can see what your saying
But if the head of Gold represented Babylon and the other three represented media-persia, greece, and the rome of Christs day. (literal kingdoms) Why would the final aspect of the statue represent anything other than a gentile kingdom? A time period which paul calls the time of the gentiles in Romans 11?
But if the head of Gold represented Babylon and the other three represented media-persia, greece, and the rome of Christs day. (literal kingdoms) Why would the final aspect of the statue represent anything other than a gentile kingdom? A time period which paul calls the time of the gentiles in Romans 11?
I was showing how Islam has a `terrible devouring, trampling` side to it. (Dan. 7: 7)
Good point showing that the kingdom is divided and a complete dictatorship. I agree.
10 kings, yes give their authority to the A/C. Agreed.
Yes 10 kings not two.
Muslims are Gentiles, and there are 10 nations in the Middle East that will make up the 10 king Federation.
The A/C conquers the world as God`s word tells us by deceit and cunning. (Dan. 8: 23 - 25)
Good point showing that the kingdom is divided and a complete dictatorship. I agree.
10 kings, yes give their authority to the A/C. Agreed.
Yes 10 kings not two.
Muslims are Gentiles, and there are 10 nations in the Middle East that will make up the 10 king Federation.
The A/C conquers the world as God`s word tells us by deceit and cunning. (Dan. 8: 23 - 25)
Just jumping in with observations to support my view...
According to worldhistory.org, "The roman empire...was divided...into a Western and an Eastern Empire," so there are the two legs of iron. And then, according to reference.com, "The Western Roman Empire was conquered...when Germanic tribes...sacked Rome," and "The Eastern Empire fell...when the Turks...invaded and claimed control of Constantinople," so those two make up the two feet of the iron mixed with clay with 10 toes.
According to worldhistory.org, "The roman empire...was divided...into a Western and an Eastern Empire," so there are the two legs of iron. And then, according to reference.com, "The Western Roman Empire was conquered...when Germanic tribes...sacked Rome," and "The Eastern Empire fell...when the Turks...invaded and claimed control of Constantinople," so those two make up the two feet of the iron mixed with clay with 10 toes.
my question: we are told about an Ottoman empire but it doesn't exist anymore. The Germanic tribes didn't have an empire. When we are told about Babylonia, there were different kings who maintained the empire, same for the Medo-Persian empire and Greece and Rome. The Ottoman empire and the German tribes don't have the same continuity. Moreover, God's kingdom was supposed to come in the days of those kings? What about England who had the biggest world empire and what about America who has had the military and political powers till now?
-
1
- Show all
Considering the symbolic significance of iron discussed in the brief synopsis at symbolismandmetaphor.com, that the feet are of iron mixed with clay alludes to a 'toned' down, more, if you will, (supposedly) humble or down to earth (signified by clay), form of government(s) or ruling class. And I'm not certain that 10 is a distinct count of rulers or merely alluding to the symbolism of 'yod' (10th and smallest letter), the number of humility as well as other significances such as the 10 generations from Adam to Noah, 10 plagues, and 10 sons of Haman, etc. But here is certainly a more 'humanistic' approach to government these days.
Thanks eternally-grateful for seeing a bit of what I am saying. I think you should consider that the literal kingdoms you speak of are pictures of something spiritual rather. For example, we read in Rev 11 that "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of The Great City, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. " Here, God is cluing us in to the fact that there is a spiritual nature to Bible kingdom names that seem at surface reading to be simply physical kingdoms. Who wouldn't think of Egypt as being a physical kingdom if you are thinking only that the Bible is describing political kingdoms. Yet the Bible describes it as a spiritual concept. Also, consider, for example, the Bible 'great city' is Jerusalem, and yet Babylon is suddenly the name for it in Revelation 18. That is called the 'great city' in the Bible then. Remember, gold is a picture used in the Bible to designate believers and the church. We read in Rev 1:20 how the seven golden candlesticks are the churches. Yet Babylon was pictured by gold in Daniel 2. It was in fact the head of gold. I wonder if perhaps it is not a physical kingdom so much as a description of spiritual people, just as Egypt was so designated in Rev 11.
Concerning your mention that the toes must conform to the time of the Gentiles, you should be correct I think about the timing. The time of the Gentiles being fulfilled signals the time right up to Christ's coming, as we read in Romans 11. However, that is not at all inconsistent with what I am saying. Gentiles during that time would still be composed of those who are strong in faith (saved) or weak in faith.
Concerning your mention that the toes must conform to the time of the Gentiles, you should be correct I think about the timing. The time of the Gentiles being fulfilled signals the time right up to Christ's coming, as we read in Romans 11. However, that is not at all inconsistent with what I am saying. Gentiles during that time would still be composed of those who are strong in faith (saved) or weak in faith.
These 7 Kingdoms are all about having "Dominion" over Israel and the whole Mediteranean Sea Region. So, if Israel is not a nation, this Prophesy that will eventually bring them unto repentance has no bearing. In other words after Rome this Figurative Seven Haded Beast receives a Mortal Wound for two reasons, God says Israel is as Dead Men's Bones for nigh 2000 years until He revives these bones (brings them back to Israel) AND the gates of hell could not overcome the Church. So, Egypt was over Israel and the Mediteranean Sea Region, as was Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome. The Mortal Wound was the Church turning Rome from a Beast nation into a conveyor belt of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. God locked Apollyon up in the bottomless pit, he will only be released as REv. 17 says when t is time for the "Beast to arise" again via the conquering of Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region as Dan. 11:40-43 clearly shows us he does. So, Satan is a Beast over the Region because he's over the whole world, but these 7 Heads and 10 Horns show WHAT REGION is being spoken of, the 7 CROWNS in Rev. 12 show he's over all nations as Luke 4 says also.
The Anti-Christ "Beast" is shown via the 7 Heads and 10 Horns also because he is one of the 7 (his Conquering of Israel and the whole region brings the "Figurative Beast back to life) and is the king over the 10 (Complete Europe) who freely give their power over unto this MAN/A.C./Little Horn/Beast Power. The Beast Man of Rev. 13 ARISES out of the Sea and has CROWNS n the 10 horns because he is over ALL Europe. (Completeness = 10)
The Rev. 17 Scarlet Colored Beast (Apollyon) arises out of the pit, he has NO CROWNS in his depiction via the 7 Heads and 10 Horns because he is not a human on this earth who become a King/Beast, and because this earth is Satans kingdom, thus he is of the 7 (Satan placed him over the region with av job to DESTROY Israel) and is an 8th King in that God loves His riddles, thus this man indeed is an 8th King, but his kingdom is the Bottomless Pit as Rev. 9 tells us, thus this Beast, when he is released, kills the Two-witnesses.
So, your hunch is correct, neither the Ottoman Empire nor the Brits were Beasts" because this LAST BEAST is a man, not a Kingdom, he never passes his kingdom on t others like all of the other "Kingdm Beasts" he is killed and then cast into hellfire.
The Anti-Christ "Beast" is shown via the 7 Heads and 10 Horns also because he is one of the 7 (his Conquering of Israel and the whole region brings the "Figurative Beast back to life) and is the king over the 10 (Complete Europe) who freely give their power over unto this MAN/A.C./Little Horn/Beast Power. The Beast Man of Rev. 13 ARISES out of the Sea and has CROWNS n the 10 horns because he is over ALL Europe. (Completeness = 10)
The Rev. 17 Scarlet Colored Beast (Apollyon) arises out of the pit, he has NO CROWNS in his depiction via the 7 Heads and 10 Horns because he is not a human on this earth who become a King/Beast, and because this earth is Satans kingdom, thus he is of the 7 (Satan placed him over the region with av job to DESTROY Israel) and is an 8th King in that God loves His riddles, thus this man indeed is an 8th King, but his kingdom is the Bottomless Pit as Rev. 9 tells us, thus this Beast, when he is released, kills the Two-witnesses.
So, your hunch is correct, neither the Ottoman Empire nor the Brits were Beasts" because this LAST BEAST is a man, not a Kingdom, he never passes his kingdom on t others like all of the other "Kingdm Beasts" he is killed and then cast into hellfire.
The Iron and Clay simply means that Rome is DIVIDED into many factions, then reunites as MANY NATIONS (the E.U.) hence they are partly strong (Germany, Spain, France, etc.) and partly weak (Estonia, Belarus, Gibraltar, etc.) Irn and clay doesn't mix well, of course, thus many nations trying to be a united front will not work great until they give all of their power over unto ONE MAN.