If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?

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May 22, 2020
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Please re-read what you send before posting--your sentence structure is not clear here as well as elsewhere e.g. '
"I think you are misunderstanding that verse Paul’s doctrine was no different than anyone else’s he preached the same things they all
Did which is everything Jesus taught"


and this..
must be another Paul probably since you quoted a scripture saying he preached none of That stuff just Jesus died and rose now everyone’s saved the end < no idea what you are referring to here.

I really have no clue whatsoever how this addresses anything in the post you are responding to Your argument makes no sense.:rolleyes:

It's like you're arguing the point that the sky is blue when I and everyone else knows that--it's like beating a dead horse. You will find nowhere in my posting where I say we don't have to follow the teaching of Christ--this is preposterous!
Always be guided by scripture...not someone's conclusive interpretation...which is un validated.
 
May 22, 2020
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Pilgrimshope has always given me answers that no one else was capable of doing. He knows The Bible backwards and forwards.

i still can't get over his response that included one the biggest issues in Eschatology ...what does it mean for satan to be bound right now.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-christ-a-king-of.202553/page-32#post-4713964
WOW...then explain the reference....satan to be bound right now.
That is not biblical.
Don't be impressed by any writings other than scriptural writings...the Bible.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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Hi Pilgrim,

It looks like you are responding to both Charlie and I but, we are on opposite side of the discussion--I think its why it's helpful to read a few of a person's post before responding. I am in agreement with you--If you see my other post--the most recent with enumerated points-where I state that Christ is ruling and reigning now--sitting at the right hand of the father and in every believer. His work on this present earth was finished at the cross and there is no necessity (or scriptural support) for Him to come again to earth to rule a literal 1000 years. He comes a second time to gather the elect, to judge the world, then immediately all is destroyed --the unbeliever, the current heavens and earth and then God creates a new heavens and new earth where only 'righteousness dwells'.
Your mistake here, Laura, is leaving out Israel! Christs 1000 year reign on this earth is for the Jews to fulfill the original calling of God to bring the world to Christ. There will be multiple millions left on earth after the Great Tribulation who know nothing of Christ and reject His rule on this earth. They will learn the Gospel from the Jews and many will believe, but of course as we see at the end of this 1000 year reign many will still not believe and Satan gathers them together in rebellion and they are destroyed.

I do agree and have already said that Christ rules in the heart of born-again man on this earth now! But this is not the 1000 year reign on earth yet to come. As I have stated, this 1000 years is for the Jews.
 
May 22, 2020
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Your mistake here, Laura, is leaving out Israel! Christs 1000 year reign on this earth is for the Jews to fulfill the original calling of God to bring the world to Christ. There will be multiple millions left on earth after the Great Tribulation who know nothing of Christ and reject His rule on this earth. They will learn the Gospel from the Jews and many will believe, but of course as we see at the end of this 1000 year reign many will still not believe and Satan gathers them together in rebellion and they are destroyed.

I do agree and have already said that Christ rules in the heart of born-again man on this earth now! But this is not the 1000 year reign on earth yet to come. As I have stated, this 1000 years is for the Jews.
God's plan of salvation for mankind is for all man. Those who partake and comply are included.
 
May 22, 2020
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I agree with that, but not sure how you are relating this to my post?

You said...1000 millennium reign of Christ on this earth....... is for the Jews.
I believe my response says..that is wrong.

Maybe I miss understood your post.
 
Nov 27, 2021
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What Daniel sealed Revelation revealed.

I want everyone to notice something here. And remember, ”he that hath ears to hear” are the ones who are willing to rethink their position. That is the meaning of the word ”Repent”. It literally means to stop instantly, and to turn around and go the opposite direction. This took great courage and the swallowing of much pride.

Before I get into scripture, if we ever found ourselves reading through a post quickly without slowing down and absorbing what and how the person on the other end is trying to convey their message to us, we are basically sitting there with a loaded gun, we are spitting nails ready to reply. Have you ever been in a conversation with someone and as they are talking, you can barely wait for them to shut up so you can say what you need to say? It’s the same thing here, we are only interested if they agree with us. Silly isn’t it?

Try to envision the other person sitting there with all the knowledge that has been taught to them by their pastor, and by what they have always come to believe and fill their shoes and see how they have come to that conclusion.
When we attack another person of they have come to believe, we do not well. There is away to approach every situation. Some are with harsh rebuke depending on the person, but not always in an open forum like this, but privately, as to win a brother, not lose him. “Yes, an open rebuke is better than secret love”, but it’s not always the case. Paul had to rebuke Peter to the face, it was required that such a stench in the nostrils of God should be rebuked openly because it was becoming a spot and and wrinkle in the body of Christ because such a thing was being practised that the Jews were better than the Gentiles. For there is no such a thing in the body of Christ as to distinctions of colour or race, we are all one in Christ Jesus, even one with the Head.

When you read from their perspective, and take on the brother/sisters shoes, then we can act like God and become MERCIFUL instead of condemnation.

The disciples thought, hey we have all this power, lets ask Jesus and see if we can command fire to come down from heaven and consume these brothers that don’t agree with us. Jesus said, you don’t even know what spirit you are of. Absolutely not!! Get into gear guys, I am here to proclaim that the kingdom has come, and I am it if you can hear it, and that the kingdom of God will not come by observation, but the Kingdom of God is within you. This is how you know that the kingdom of God has come, go tell John and tell him that the blind see, the deaf hear, demons are cast out, the acceptable day of the LORD is being proclaimed because he hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor.

It seems that the Holy Ghost has taken this. Post in another direction. I will venture into those other scriptures later.

Morning Yorkshire tea, no brew like it.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
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You said...1000 millennium reign of Christ on this earth....... is for the Jews.
I believe my response says..that is wrong.

Maybe I miss understood your post.
You didn't misunderstand my post. In Ezekiel 40-48, he tells us the Jews will be sanctified to God, the entire nation will be saved.

The Feast of Tabernacles is reinstated, meaning the sacrifices of the Law of Moses will begin again with the Jews as Priests conducting the sacrifices for 1000 years.

Ezekiel 44:9-11

"Thus saith the Lord God; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.
11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them."

Ezekiel is telling us here that the Levites who were the Priests of old, did turn the people from God and will not be the Priests in the Millennium reign. They will have other duties in the temple.

In vs. 15 he tells us that the sons of Zadok who were Priests of old, who remained true to God from the Southern Kingdom will be the Priests of this period.

Vs. 16,

"They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge."
 
Nov 27, 2021
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I remember when I was pretrib, and then post trib and the arguements we used to have over the teachings. Looking back, I was an arrogant little snot. Of course until the Holy Ghost took me aside and said something totally different that literally changed the course of my direction. Pardon me for a moment as I eat a keto scone.

Back to what I was saying, my favourite verse is, “Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.“ This is both written and what is being spoken today.

In Lawyer speak, every word, jot and tittle is vitally important. Where the coma’s and semi colons and periods sit are equally vital. When they read a legal document for a client, they scan that sucker closely. As Bereans, that is what we are to do too. It’s important how the document reads to us.

Most of us have ran with what others have taught us. We always say though, with a proud look, “God is the only one that has taught me”. And yet, we run around with that idea, and God is allowing us to be squirrally, flitting from branch to branch never really reaching to the top, where we can get a better look at the whole surroundings.
Unfortunately, in a our desperate attempt, we take pieces here and there to form an argument. God forbid that we should ever be wrong.

When I was wrong about what I believed about this whole thing, I was completely undone. I felt desolate. I cried to God, “how did I get deceived?” I didn’t know what to do afterward, I was completely stunned, tased. I put my bible on the shelf and left it there because of the confusion. I accepted God’s correction and from there, like a rain storm, everything looks messy, but when the Son of Righteousness comes up with healing in His wings, everything that has been bowed low lfits up their stems, buds and branch to praise the LORD, to draw in the energy that is so badly needed in this day and hour we are living in.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
63
I remember when I was pretrib, and then post trib and the arguements we used to have over the teachings. Looking back, I was an arrogant little snot. Of course until the Holy Ghost took me aside and said something totally different that literally changed the course of my direction. Pardon me for a moment as I eat a keto scone.

Back to what I was saying, my favourite verse is, “Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.“ This is both written and what is being spoken today.

In Lawyer speak, every word, jot and tittle is vitally important. Where the coma’s and semi colons and periods sit are equally vital. When they read a legal document for a client, they scan that sucker closely. As Bereans, that is what we are to do too. It’s important how the document reads to us.

Most of us have ran with what others have taught us. We always say though, with a proud look, “God is the only one that has taught me”. And yet, we run around with that idea, and God is allowing us to be squirrally, flitting from branch to branch never really reaching to the top, where we can get a better look at the whole surroundings.
Unfortunately, in a our desperate attempt, we take pieces here and there to form an argument. God forbid that we should ever be wrong.

When I was wrong about what I believed about this whole thing, I was completely undone. I felt desolate. I cried to God, “how did I get deceived?” I didn’t know what to do afterward, I was completely stunned, tased. I put my bible on the shelf and left it there because of the confusion. I accepted God’s correction and from there, like a rain storm, everything looks messy, but when the Son of Righteousness comes up with healing in His wings, everything that has been bowed low lfits up their stems, buds and branch to praise the LORD, to draw in the energy that is so badly needed in this day and hour we are living in.
Some say pre-trib, some say mid-trib, and some say a post-trib resurrection. The fact is, someone is right and someone is wrong.

Let the Lord decide who that may be. Meanwhile I see nothing wrong with giving your points on what you believe. The Lord wants us to understand this or He wouldn't have given us this much information.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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What Daniel sealed Revelation revealed.

I want everyone to notice something here. And remember, ”he that hath ears to hear” are the ones who are willing to rethink their position. That is the meaning of the word ”Repent”. It literally means to stop instantly, and to turn around and go the opposite direction. This took great courage and the swallowing of much pride.

Before I get into scripture, if we ever found ourselves reading through a post quickly without slowing down and absorbing what and how the person on the other end is trying to convey their message to us, we are basically sitting there with a loaded gun, we are spitting nails ready to reply. Have you ever been in a conversation with someone and as they are talking, you can barely wait for them to shut up so you can say what you need to say? It’s the same thing here, we are only interested if they agree with us. Silly isn’t it?

Try to envision the other person sitting there with all the knowledge that has been taught to them by their pastor, and by what they have always come to believe and fill their shoes and see how they have come to that conclusion.
When we attack another person of they have come to believe, we do not well. There is away to approach every situation. Some are with harsh rebuke depending on the person, but not always in an open forum like this, but privately, as to win a brother, not lose him. “Yes, an open rebuke is better than secret love”, but it’s not always the case. Paul had to rebuke Peter to the face, it was required that such a stench in the nostrils of God should be rebuked openly because it was becoming a spot and and wrinkle in the body of Christ because such a thing was being practised that the Jews were better than the Gentiles. For there is no such a thing in the body of Christ as to distinctions of colour or race, we are all one in Christ Jesus, even one with the Head.

When you read from their perspective, and take on the brother/sisters shoes, then we can act like God and become MERCIFUL instead of condemnation.

The disciples thought, hey we have all this power, lets ask Jesus and see if we can command fire to come down from heaven and consume these brothers that don’t agree with us. Jesus said, you don’t even know what spirit you are of. Absolutely not!! Get into gear guys, I am here to proclaim that the kingdom has come, and I am it if you can hear it, and that the kingdom of God will not come by observation, but the Kingdom of God is within you. This is how you know that the kingdom of God has come, go tell John and tell him that the blind see, the deaf hear, demons are cast out, the acceptable day of the LORD is being proclaimed because he hath anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor.

It seems that the Holy Ghost has taken this. Post in another direction. I will venture into those other scriptures later.

Morning Yorkshire tea, no brew like it.
i've been saying The Second Coming is different from The Return, but after reading this maybe i should be saying The Kingdom Coming is different from The Return.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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The second half of Isaiah 66 sure sounds like "new heavens and the new earth" already happened.

Isa 66:17
They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Isa 66:19

And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

Isa 66:20

And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

Isa 66:21

And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

Isa 66:22

For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isa 66:23

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Isa 66:24

And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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Mount Zion is the stone the smote the dream statue of the beasts in Daniel.

The Kingdom of The Body of CHRIST.

David’s seat was on that Mountain and now JESUS Reigns from It.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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That is the basis of grace....established by Christ.
Generally...in scripture references....the cross...means just as you referred.......Christ who lived and died on the cross and rose again can save anyone who have kept God's commandments.
Gods has always been gracious to man his grace , is what established the “ cross “

“But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the issue has always been us rejecting what he said from Adam and Eve forward anytime mankind refuses to believe what God said , we end up having the things he warned us of

“don’t eat this fruit , or you will certainly die “ Gods word always provides direction and tells us the result beforehand. Whether like that a warning of what not to do , or this thing will happen or in situations like this

“And the Lord said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s the nature of Gods word whatever he says is always going to be the truth. Whether he’s earning us of what not to do and the consequences if we do it anyways . Or directing a person who believes telling them what to do and the blessing that will follow if they do

We learn this about Gods word from the first chapter of the Bible God speaks , and it becomes what he said his word creates just what he has spoken

“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

anything he says is infallibly true so this makes everything about faith

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17

This is why we have to seperate Moses commands from those of Christ one word looks like this and is designed this way

“Don’t commit adultery , anyone who does must be put to death by the others “
In other words it says “ this is sin , don’t do it or you will surely be put to death “

but the New Testament offers life to the hearer who believes

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what Jesus preached are the commands of God that give life

“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:49-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses word and the commands of Sinai don’t offer that they warn of sin and death and never offer in the law life after death.

my only point is what Jesus preached from the time he was baptized until he gave his life for us , those are Gods words to us only the words of Christ can give eternal life

“Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:68-69‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they knew Jesus was the one promised to come speak the words of God for salvation and life.

the “ cross “ is the altar where the sacrificial blood was shed and sprinkled on the people according to Christs word just like the old covenant was Moses word and the blood he shed of animals

the new covenant is what saves people we have to accept the word , and the sacrifice
 
Apr 20, 2019
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We who Love Him pray on earth as it is in Heaven. Right? In Jesus amen
 
Jan 21, 2021
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With The Kingdom of The Body of CHRIST in us, the world doesn't end.

Ephesians 3:19-21
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
 
Jan 21, 2021
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Does all flesh worship JESUS (Isaiah 66:23, John 17:2-5) if He filled all things (Ephesians 4:10) and has already put everything under His feet (Ephesians 1:22)?

Isaiah 66:23
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

John 17:2-5
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Ephesians 4:10
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Ephesians 1:22
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
 
May 22, 2020
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You didn't misunderstand my post. In Ezekiel 40-48, he tells us the Jews will be sanctified to God, the entire nation will be saved.

The Feast of Tabernacles is reinstated, meaning the sacrifices of the Law of Moses will begin again with the Jews as Priests conducting the sacrifices for 1000 years.

Ezekiel 44:9-11

"Thus saith the Lord God; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.
11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them."

Ezekiel is telling us here that the Levites who were the Priests of old, did turn the people from God and will not be the Priests in the Millennium reign. They will have other duties in the temple.

In vs. 15 he tells us that the sons of Zadok who were Priests of old, who remained true to God from the Southern Kingdom will be the Priests of this period.

Vs. 16,

"They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge."

Not so....12000 from each of the 12 tribe or....144000 are assured that they will be carried through the trib. period.
We are discussing the point of who is covered by God's grace....not whether some Jews would be included in the process.
 
May 22, 2020
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timed out....


Not so....only 12000 from each of the 12 tribes
or....144000 are assured that they will be safely carried through the trib. period.
We are discussing the point of who is covered by God's grace....not whether some Jews would be included in the process.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
63
timed out....


Not so....only 12000 from each of the 12 tribes
or....144000 are assured that they will be safely carried through the trib. period.
We are discussing the point of who is covered by God's grace....not whether some Jews would be included in the process.
I though we were discussing our differences you stated in post #666?