Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[Absolutely]

No, that would be you who doesn't understand. I have verses included that SAY what the point is.

But, go ahead and try to refute my points by exegeting the verses to show they DON'T mean what they say. Or that they mean something totally different.


lol. There is NOT ANY verse that says that resurrecrtions are over time. That's just your own OPINION. Which I'm not interested in.

I gave 4 verses that PROVE there is only 1 resurrection of the saved and they are unambiguous.


I challenge you to quote that verse. Oh, right. There isn't one. 1 Cor 15:23 says "those who belong to Him". I've already shared the verses that blow your theory out of the water. Do you ever read my posts?

Act 15:16-17
16 “ ‘After this I will return and rebuild David’s fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things’ —

Go ahead and try to tell me that "all the Gentiles who bear My name" can't be included in the phrase "those who belong to Him".

Rom 10:18-20
18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, “I will make you envious by those who are not a nation; I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”
20 And Isaiah boldly says, “I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”

So don't tell me "those who belong to Him" doesn't include believers from Adam on.

Only a fool would try to make that argument. Paul NEVER talked about a resurrection that was just for those "in Christ".


Only if you can prove these witnesses were given resurrection bodies. Which you can't, of course.

Further, the FIRST resurrection is at the end of the Trib. So says Rev 20:5. So you can't be right.


Where is Scripture for the OT saints? I don't believe you. The one for the beheaded is the FIRST resurrection, and that doesn't mean the first one of the several beheaded ones. That would be quite stupid.


What a joke. I've shown the verses that clearly indicate there is ONLY ONE. It's the Bible that "lumps them all together".\

How can I "ignore other Scriptures that show us that they are separate" when you HAVEN'T SHOWN me ANY verses that shows separate resurrections?


Again, a very wrong conclusion, as usual.

The reason Paul described Jesus' resurrection separately and called it "firstfruits" is because of:

Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

If you are able to comprehend language, you will KNOW that Jesus' resurrection is the FIRST one, separated by the description "firstfruits".

Do you understand what this means? It means Lazarus, the widow's son and all the others that Jesus raised from the dead while He was on earth BEFORE His own resurrection did NOT receive resurrection bodies. This is also true of the 2 witnesses, because the Bible does NOT SAY they received glorified bodies. Good luck trying to prove they did.


Go ahead and argue against Scripture all you want. That's not by business. But the verses are clear enough that you have NO EXCUSE for your rebellion and rejection of God's Word


No kidding!


You haven't proved that. Please stop sharing your unsubstantiated opinions. When you make a claim, please provide verses that say what you opine.


You've NEVER shown from Scripture that Jesus takes raptured believers to heaven, so I reject that as just your unsubstantiated opinion.

Only IF you ever find a verse that shows Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven will I believe it. But I know that the Bible doesn't teach that.


No proof, no evidence. Only your unsubstantiated opinion. Which I reject.


Once again, Jesus told that to His disciples, BEFORE He died and went to heaven. He was assurring them that they had a place prepared for them when they died. And where do you think those 11 disciples have been living in heaven for the past 2,000+ years?????


I've researched the Greek word, and it INCLUDES timing. So you are wrong on ALL points.

"""I gave 4 verses that PROVE there is only 1 resurrection of the saved and they are unambiguous"""
There has already been one

1 cor 15
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

I count 2 before the rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

"""There is NOT ANY verse that says that resurrecrtions are over time. That's just your own OPINION. Which I'm not interested in."""


1 cor 15
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

"""There is NOT ANY verse that says that resurrecrtions are over time. That's just your own OPINION. Which I'm not interested in."""

Lol

 

[ewq1938]

Interesting point....where do you think He goes? He doesn't stay on the earth.
Doesn't He have to go back to His Heaven for the marriage supper?

No, he stays on the Earth. The marriage is not in heaven, at least not for Christians because they leave heaven with Christ before meeting the Christians still alive and remaining. Also, New Jerusalem is said to be the bride and she comes out of heaven to meet her bridegroom who is on the Earth. I would say that is when the wedding happens.

 

[peldom10]

No, he stays on the Earth. The marriage is not in heaven, at least not for Christians because they leave heaven with Christ before meeting the Christians still alive and remaining. Also, New Jerusalem is said to be the bride and she comes out of heaven to meet her bridegroom who is on the Earth. I would say that is when the wedding happens.

Christ can not be on this earth with Satan. The Bible is not conclusive what Christ does/goes after the rapture. I sometimes think we put to much emphasis on Him coming to the earth.....at the rapture. ...in the blink of an eye. Then the Bible is a little quiet of what He physically does.
He comes at His 2nd advent with His armies....at the battle of Armageddon.

 

[ewq1938]

Christ can not be on this earth with Satan.

Of course he can.

Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Mat 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

 

[peldom10]

Of course he can.

Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Mat 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Not since His death and resurrection.

We must keep occurrences and eras in context, with the Bible writings.

 

[ewq1938]

Not since His death and resurrection.

We must keep occurrences and eras in context, with the Bible writings.

There is nothing in the bible about Jesus not being able to be in the same place as satan. During the thousand years Jesus will be on the Earth and satan will be imprisoned in a locked pit.

 

[HatedForNoReason]

Christ can not be on this earth with Satan. The Bible is not conclusive what Christ does/goes after the rapture. I sometimes think we put to much emphasis on Him coming to the earth.....at the rapture. ...in the blink of an eye. Then the Bible is a little quiet of what He physically does.
He comes at His 2nd advent with His armies....at the battle of Armageddon.

Revelation 20:9-10
King James Version

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


2 Peter 3:7-14
King James Version

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

1. Noah put into ark=flood drowns the wicked
2. Lot runs from sodom and gomorrah, God burns to ash all the wicked.
3. Jesus takes God's elect into the air, Jesus throws a flaming fire on old flawed earth, old heaven and all nonelects.
So Great White Throne Judgment can happen.

God creates new heaven and new earth for all of God's elect. Satan, demons and all nonelects get thrown into lake of fire to be punished forever

John 5:29
King James Version

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

"""I gave 4 verses that PROVE there is only 1 resurrection of the saved and they are unambiguous"""
There has already been one

1 cor 15
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

I count 2 before the rapture.

Show me, from Scripture that there are 2 resurrections before the gathering (biblical word).

iow, prove your claim.

 

[FreeGrace2]

"""There is NOT ANY verse that says that resurrecrtions are over time. That's just your own OPINION. Which I'm not interested in."""


1 cor 15
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

"""There is NOT ANY verse that says that resurrecrtions are over time. That's just your own OPINION. Which I'm not interested in."""

Lol

Go ahead and laugh. And while you are at it, show me from the verses above where the multiple resurrections are.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Christ can not be on this earth with Satan.

This is a very odd claim.

Matt 4:1 - Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

It already occurred.

The Bible is not conclusive what Christ does/goes after the rapture.

Sure it is. Very clear. Rev 20 tells us in plain words.

Jesus comes back, resurrected believers, sets up His Millennial kingdom, rules for 1,000 years, then dramatically ends the battle of Gog and Magog and then replaces the old heaven and earth with a new heaven and earth. Rev 21:1

I sometimes think we put to much emphasis on Him coming to the earth.....at the rapture. ...in the blink of an eye.

I think the over-emphasis is on the "rapture". That's all that people seem to talk about. That fantasy trip to heaven.

The real emphasis is on resurrection, of which there will be just 2; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.” Singular.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. Again, a singular resurrection for the saved and unsaved.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Real clear here. The resurrection of the saved will occur "when He comes". Unambiguous. And "those who belong to Him" is also unambiguous. It's all the saved from Adam on.

btw, do you know why Christ's resurrection is described as "firstfruits"? Because His resurrection was the FIRST ONE.

Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

That means we CAN'T consider all the people that Jesus raised from the dead (Lazarus, widow's son, etc) or His disciples, or the ones who came out of their grave at the crucifixion, a resurrection.

So, regarding human beings other than Jesus, who is both God and man, there is only ONE singular resurrection.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Not since His death and resurrection.

Show me any verse that supports your opinion. Thanks.

We must keep occurrences and eras in context, with the Bible writings.

Yes, please show me the Bible writings that support your opinion.

 

[Absolutely]

Show me any verse that supports your opinion. Thanks.


Yes, please show me the Bible writings that support your opinion.

Or verses that someone omits and reconcile those AS WELL

 

[Absolutely]

Btw
Where were the 5 wise virgins taken?
The ones gathered by Jesus on a cloud. In rev 14
Where were they taken?

The one taken/ one left mat 24....where were they taken?

Those gathered at 1 thes 4....where were they taken????

Postribs?
Any postribs want to try?

 

[lamad]

No, he stays on the Earth. The marriage is not in heaven, at least not for Christians because they leave heaven with Christ before meeting the Christians still alive and remaining. Also, New Jerusalem is said to be the bride and she comes out of heaven to meet her bridegroom who is on the Earth. I would say that is when the wedding happens.

That is not AT ALL the order of events in my book of Revelation in my bible. For example, the wedding and supper is before the 1000 year reign and the city coming down is after the 1000 years and after the old earth and old heaven have vanished and God has created a NEW heaven and earth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Show me any verse that supports your opinion. Thanks.

Yes, please show me the Bible writings that support your opinion.

Or verses that someone omits and reconcile those AS WELL

When a person can't deal with the truth, they have to make up stuff.

You know very well that you cannot prove a pretrib rapture from Scripture. There are NO verses that show Jesus taking resurrected/raptured people to heaven.

And THAT is the center of your theory.

Please show me any verse that I have ignored or omitted.

I'll wait.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Btw
Where were the 5 wise virgins taken?
The ones gathered by Jesus on a cloud. In rev 14
Where were they taken?

The one taken/ one left mat 24....where were they taken?

Those gathered at 1 thes 4....where were they taken????

Postribs?
Any postribs want to try?

Regarding the parable of the 10 virgins, it is a PARABLE. Not doctrinal teaching. It shows NOTHING about a rapture.

Again, Rev 14 isn't chronological. It is about the END of the Tribulation.

Matt 24 IS also about the end of the Trib. When the rapture occurs. And to answer your question, the Bible says NOTHING about Jesus gathering the "elect" and taking them to heaven.

So, again, you have NO verses that show Jesus taking resurrected/raptured people to heaven.

There aren't any. You need to seriously deal with that FACT.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That is not AT ALL the order of events in my book of Revelation in my bible. For example, the wedding and supper is before the 1000 year reign and the city coming down is after the 1000 years and after the old earth and old heaven have vanished and God has created a NEW heaven and earth.

Well, we agree on this.

 

[Absolutely]

Did God remove the Jews from Egypt when He blasted the Egyptians with the 10 plagues? No. They stayed RIGHT WHERE THEY WERE.


OK, finally you provide some "context" with which to comment.

v.26: prove that the "days of the Son of man" means the Trib or just before the Trib. I would say the "days of the some of man" would be way more likely the Millennial reign. Recall that Jesus will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Gonna be very strict. And by the end, yes, and He will "destroy them all".
v.29: same as v.26, a reference to the end of the Millennium. Where all unbelievers are destroyed.
v.30: an OBVIOUS reference to the Second Coming. Not a day before that. Because that is when Jesus wil be revealed.
v.34,35,36: an obvious reference to the gathering.


Noah wasn't "removed" from the earth. In fact, he STAYED on earth, he just floated above the land for a while. Your "example" fails miserably.

Lot also wasn't "removed" from the earth. He was just relocated to an adjacent piece of real estate.

what about Jesus? What are you trying to refer to?


By the time the Trib rolls around, the VAST MAJORITY of the church will ALREADY be in heaven. And you CANNOT find any verse that supports your presumption that Jesus takes raptured believers to heaven.


Yes, my explanation sure is. Your examples of Noah, Lot and Jesus failed terribly.

Moses and the hebrews were gathered into the wilderness and into the law and judgement.
So that ruins that analogy.

A better one ( if of course you are interested in exegesis) would be the Jews ( INDEED IN THE TRIB) Ushered away in revelation with satan on their tail ( ahem, to destroy them with water).
Much better fot than to just throw out the entire church gathered to the wilderness with thousands DESTROYED and put under the law....just make some " point" you need to place the bride in some " non existant purification" by throwing her in with the lost.

But you are close, as the 5 foolish VIRGINS ( carnal believers) are indeed left behind)....to die as Gods word says.

 

[Absolutely]

Did God remove the Jews from Egypt when He blasted the Egyptians with the 10 plagues? No. They stayed RIGHT WHERE THEY WERE.


OK, finally you provide some "context" with which to comment.

v.26: prove that the "days of the Son of man" means the Trib or just before the Trib. I would say the "days of the some of man" would be way more likely the Millennial reign. Recall that Jesus will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Gonna be very strict. And by the end, yes, and He will "destroy them all".
v.29: same as v.26, a reference to the end of the Millennium. Where all unbelievers are destroyed.
v.30: an OBVIOUS reference to the Second Coming. Not a day before that. Because that is when Jesus wil be revealed.
v.34,35,36: an obvious reference to the gathering.


Noah wasn't "removed" from the earth. In fact, he STAYED on earth, he just floated above the land for a while. Your "example" fails miserably.

Lot also wasn't "removed" from the earth. He was just relocated to an adjacent piece of real estate.

what about Jesus? What are you trying to refer to?


By the time the Trib rolls around, the VAST MAJORITY of the church will ALREADY be in heaven. And you CANNOT find any verse that supports your presumption that Jesus takes raptured believers to heaven.


Yes, my explanation sure is. Your examples of Noah, Lot and Jesus failed terribly.

"""Noah wasn't "removed" from the earth. In fact, he STAYED on earth, he just floated above the land for a while. Your "example" fails miserably."""

Nobody goes into such ridiculousness.

Noah was gathered PREJUDGEMENT into the ARK ( a type of heaven) and THEN went up into the clouds over a mile above the earth.

Try...please try ....to get that picture painted VIVIDLY....BY THE HOLY BIBLE.

""""Noah wasn't "removed" from the earth. In fact, he STAYED on earth, he just floated above the land for a while. Your "example" fails miserably."""

LOL.....GOT BIBLE?????

Psssst...you do realize you NEED Noah REMOVED AFTER THE FLOOD??????