Any Historically orthodox Christians here?

Jon-E · Dec 2, 2021

Jesus said:

"And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." (Matt 16:18, ASV)

Jude wrote:

"Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints." (Jude 1:3, ASV)

On the major doctrines of the Christian faith, the faith that was once for all delivered, that Jesus said the gates of Hades would not bring down; on these major doctrines should we not see a general agreement among the denominations of the body of Christ through the centuries?

Does anyone on this forum embrace or value the various Christian confessions and creeds of the churches? I have in mind the 3 Ecumenical Creeds and denominational confessions such as the Westminster Standards of the Presbyterians, the old Baptist Confessions, the Book of Concord of the Lutherans or The 39 Articles of the Church of England/ Episcopal? Are there any on this site who value the commentaries of various denominations in history, where they agree on the major doctrines of the faith such as the commentaries found online here: https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng.html

When one chooses to believe and teach doctrines opposed to these major doctrines of the churches of Christ, is that not the very definition of heresy?

The Oxford online: "heresy - Belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine."

pottersclay · Dec 2, 2021

It is my belief that the church is made up of many denominations.
These different denominations have all brought something to the table of faith.
As jesus said a little here a little there.
Salvation through Christ alone not by works merit is the common thread we must look for.
The creeds and doctrines of belief are the emphasis and focus on devine truths.
It is still up to us to be a berean to see if it is so.

XavierJesusLovesIndia · Dec 2, 2021

I'm so glad all the Christian Denominations are working together these days, to defeat Communism (that still causes millions of Christians to suffer persecution, in China, North Korea etc), Fight Abortion in the Pro-Life Cause, Stop All Persecution of Christians, and above all, for the Great and Most Noble Cause of World Evangelism and Finishing the Great Commission. There are still, after 2000 years, 5 Billion Non-Christians outside the Kingdom of God. Thankfully, there are 2.5 Billion who profess to believe in and worship the Lord Jesus. We must be Spirit-led Christians trying to ensure Christianity becomes at least 50% of the world by 2050. Can the Kingdom of God be less than the Kingdom of Satan forever? I hope not. The Bible says a Great Multitude from every nation will serve the Lamb before the end of time, " After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;" (Revelation 7:9, Authorized KJV). That has already happened, to some small degree, but we Christians need to pray harder and work harder to reach millions more.

I love that Rev. Billy Graham, Abp. Fulton Sheen, Pope St. John Paul II, the Russian Orthodox Patriarchs, President Reagan of the US, President Lech Walesa of Poland, and so many other good Christians, in Perfect Unity, worked together for the downfall of Communism in the Soviet Union, which happened in the late 80s. God is showing us the Way we can have Victories in our important battles: With Perfect Christian Unity and True Christian Love for everyone, regardless of denomination. Ideally, all denominations will become One Church in time. But for today, let all Christians - who already agree 90% on everything - work together to bring those outside into the Kingdom.

For Christ our King,
Nishant Xavier.

ResidentAlien · Dec 2, 2021

Jon-E said:

I don't. They're unnecessary in my opinion. I embrace the values of some of them but I don't embrace creeds and confessions per se. I rely on the Holy Spirit.

Growing up in the Methodist church we recited the Apostle's Creed every Sunday, then went home and forgot about it till next Sunday.

Runningman · Dec 2, 2021

Jon-E said:

I don't necessarily agree with that definition of heresy because, according to that, a belief just needs to be contrary to orthodox Christianity to be heresy. Meanwhile, orthdox Christianity is littered with heresies.

It's more accurate to say that heresy is not the same thing as poor Biblical interpretation. It's better to say heresy is something not contained in the Bible.

Yes I'm aware that the line between poor Biblical interpretation and extra-Biblical doctrines are often blurred in the hearts, minds, souls, and eyes of many Christians.

I didn't look at all of the creeds, but the Apostle's Creed contains heresy for example. Jesus didn't suffer under Pontius Pilate. Pilate absolved himself of Jesus' murder by leaving the decision to set Jesus free or crucify Him up to the roaring mob.

Blik · Dec 2, 2021

Christ chose 12 men to directly teach and called them apostles, not disciples. These 12 mean established the first Christian churches. Paul was made an apostles miraculously in the years he spend in Arabia. When false teaching or heretics rose up, the main churches just quietly spoke the truth. They stood united and firm on the gospel and what Christ taught but they tolerated differences in interpretation like Saturday bs. Sunday for worship, as Psul teaches us. It was a small group of men, but powerful and growing.

Then along came Constantine, a powerful dictator, who decided to help the church by applying worldly rules of leadership. Before, problems were taken to those whose teaches were from the apostles, now councils of men solved problems of the church. The OT became writings for the Jews who were looked down on. Before, the church did not fight with enemies, now heretics were aggressively handled. The church changed in many ways.

I think we should study and copy the church of the first 300 years, before Constantine changed it.

Magenta · Dec 2, 2021

This I Believe (The Creed) - Hillsong Worship

Our Father everlasting
The all creating One
God Almighty

Through Your Holy Spirit
Conceiving Christ the Son
Jesus our Savior

I believe in God our Father
I believe in Christ the Son
I believe in the Holy Spirit
Our God is three in One
I believe in the resurrection
That we will rise again
For I believe in the Name of Jesus

Our Judge and our Defender
Suffered and crucified
Forgiveness is in You

Descended into darkness
You rose in glorious life
Forever seated high

I believe in God our Father
I believe in Christ the Son
I believe in the Holy Spirit
Our God is three in One
I believe in the resurrection
That we will rise again
For I believe in the Name of Jesus

I believe You rose again
I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord
I believe
I believe in You
I believe You rose again
I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord

I believe in God our Father
I believe in Christ the Son
I believe in the Holy Spirit
Our God is three in One
I believe in the resurrection
That we will rise again
For I believe in the Name of Jesus

I believe in God our Father
I believe in Christ the Son
I believe in the Holy Spirit
Our God is three in One
I believe in the resurrection
That we will rise again
For I believe in the Name of Jesus

For I believe in the Name of Jesus
For I believe in the Name of Jesus

I believe in life eternal
I believe in the virgin birth
I believe in the saints' communion
And in Your holy Church
I believe in the resurrection
When Jesus comes again
For I believe, in the Name of Jesus

I believe in God our Father
I believe in Christ the Son
I believe in the Holy Spirit
Our God is three in One
I believe in the resurrection
That we will rise again
For I believe in the Name of Jesus

I believe in God our Father
I believe in Christ the Son
I believe in the Holy Spirit
Our God is three in One
I believe in the resurrection
That we will rise again
For I believe in the Name of Jesus

For I believe in the Name of Jesus

Jon-E · Dec 3, 2021

Runningman said:

You wrote: "the Apostle's Creed contains heresy for example. Jesus didn't suffer under Pontius Pilate" Do you not understand how idiotic that sounds??

John 19:6 Pilate said take him and crucify him

Matt. 27:24 Pilate washes his hands saying he was innocent

John 18:31 The Jews said it was unlawful for them to put him to death

John 19:10 Pilate tells Jesus that he has power to crucify Jesus

Luke 23:24 Pilate sentenced Jesus

Luke 23:25 Pilate imprisoned Jesus

and they bound him, and led him away, and delivered him up to Pilate the governor. (Matt 27:2, ERV)

Then released he unto them Barabbas: but Jesus he scourged and delivered to be crucified. (Matt 27:26, ERV)

I charge thee in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; (1Tim 6:13, ERV)

The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against his Anointed: for of a truth in this city against thy holy Servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together, to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel foreordained to come to pass. (Acts 4:26-28, ERV)

Jon-E · Dec 3, 2021

Blik said:

The twelve apostles are also called disciples:

Blik said:

The twelve apostles were also called twelve disciples: Matt. 10:1; 11:1; 20:17; 26:20

Jon-E · Dec 3, 2021

I'd come to suspect that this forum is indeed a real hodgepodge of religious thought, seems more like doctrinal anarchy. Would the church that Jesus Christ built ever be recognized in this? Where would we find the faith once for all delivered to the saints here. The faith amounts to more than just John 3:16.

I had looked in vain to find any poster who claimed a denominational name, or even better still a Confession of Faith to which they hold as accurate as humanly possible. I'm beginning to believe that I've erred in my choice of a forum to join.

ResidentAlien · Dec 3, 2021

Jon-E said:

Is it your belief that the church is held together by creeds and confessions? That's what I hear you saying; correct me if I'm wrong.

awelight · Dec 3, 2021

Jon-E said:

You asked: When one chooses to believe and teach doctrines opposed to these major doctrines of the churches of Christ, is that not the very definition of heresy?

The short, simple answer is - NO.

Even though I agree with many of the points in the Westminster Creed, all adopted creeds, doctrines, confessions and so on, must stand the test of Biblical accuracy. The assembly, which Christ is building, stands on His foundation, as laid out in Holy Scripture. Therefore, all Doctrinal beliefs must conform to the complete revelation of God - from Gen.1:1 to Rev. 22:21. A church standing on adopted, manmade understandings, maybe building on a foundation of sand.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 3, 2021

Blik said:

Christ chose 12 men to directly teach and called them apostles, not disciples. These 12 mean established the first Christian churches. Paul was made an apostles miraculously in the years he spend in Arabia. When false teaching or heretics rose up, the main churches just quietly spoke the truth. They stood united and firm on the gospel and what Christ taught but they tolerated differences in interpretation like Saturday bs. Sunday for worship, as Psul teaches us. It was a small group of men, but powerful and growing.

Then along came Constantine, a powerful dictator, who decided to help the church by applying worldly rules of leadership. Before, problems were taken to those whose teaches were from the apostles, now councils of men solved problems of the church. The OT became writings for the Jews who were looked down on. Before, the church did not fight with enemies, now heretics were aggressively handled. The church changed in many ways.

I think we should study and copy the church of the first 300 years, before Constantine changed it.

amen the biblical Church that’s written before the warnings came from paul and Peter about false doctrines pulling people from the truth of the gospel

Jon-E · Dec 3, 2021

ResidentAlien said:

The body of Christ in history and especially following the Protestant Reformation exists in various denominations. The early church formulated what are called by many, the three Ecumenical Creeds teaching about the Trinity and without the Trinity you do not have the body of Christ. After the Reformation various churches formulated their Confessions of Faith such as the Book of Concord by the Lutherans, Westminster Standards by the Presbyterians, the 39 Articles of the Church of England/Episcopal, the First and Second London Confessions of the Baptists, etc. There is much agreement on the fundamentals of the faith as found in these early documents. For instance, I have felt comfortable sitting in a Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian church worship service as well as my own 'original' Baptist denomination. When I began to see the lies taught in the independent, fundamentalist Baptist church I was raised in; I purchased the documents of the various denominations in existence in the early years of America, back when God blessed America. I was amazed at the similarity of teaching on salvation. One thing I noticed was the clear teaching of unconditional or unmerited election found in them all, which is so solidly based on the Bible and defended against freewillism by Martin Luther in his Bondage of the Will:

"And it is this very state of the truth, that of necessity proves "Free-will" to be nothing at all; seeing that, the love and hatred of God towards men is immutable and eternal; existing, not only before there was any merit or work of "Free-will," but before the worlds were made; and that, all things take place in us from necessity, accordingly as He loved or loved not from all eternity. So that, not the love of God only, but even the manner of His love imposes on us necessity. Here then it may be seen, how much its invented ways of escape profit the Diatribe; for the more it attempts to get away from the truth, the more it runs upon it; with so little success does it fight against it!" https://www.truecovenanter.com/truelutheran/luther_bow.html#pt2

Most so-called Protestants, Baptists today teach what was the Roman Catholic doctrine they held on free will and works! It amusing because some who are so vocally anti-Papist teach Roman Catholic doctrine on the matter of works, freewill and predestination. If you doubt me, read the Roman Catholic Commentary that is online. Read its comments on Acts 13:48, James 2:18, Rom. 3:20, Eph. 2:8. You notice the comment on Eph. 2:8 clearly adds works to faith for salvation because Catholics blend justification and sanctification into one doctrine.

Luther in the preceding from Bondage of the Will, is refuting the teaching of the Roman Catholics in this book, Erasmus in particular here. Today in the US there are over 200 various churches and groups, and most in this day have turned 'faith' into a work therefore meriting salvation by their belief or adding works. There certainly cannot be 200 versions of God's truth. The churches of Christ were given instruction in the Scripture:

"knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation. For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Ghost." (2Pet 1:20-21, ERV)

A true child of God has the indwelling Holy Spirit to help and illuminate the words that he inspired to be written. The church also has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not going to teach an individual a private interpretation and the overall church another. Of course the denominations vary in modes of baptism and in organization of church government; also there are liturgical churches like the Lutheran and Anglicans; but the body of God's truth is in agreement among them.

Even the Arminian theology of the early Methodists, such as found in the British Methodist commentator Adam Clarke, is a much more accurate belief system than you hear preached by the many pulpits today. I did not purchase the Methodist Confession to study when I left the fundamentalists, because it was mainly a movement within the Church of England and only became a separate denomination officially or legally in 1784. Date taken from the 14th Edition(2018) of Denominations in the US.

Maybe I should have looked for a statement of beliefs or standards on this Forum before joining.

Runningman · Dec 3, 2021

Jon-E said:

Matthew 26
3Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas, 4And consulted that they might take Jesus by subtilty, and kill him. 5But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar among the people.

Matthew 27
15Now at that feast the governor was wont to release unto the people a prisoner, whom they would. 16And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas. 17Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ? 18For he knew that for envy they had delivered him.

19When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him. 20But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus. 21The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas. 22Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. 23And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.

24When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. 25Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. 26Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.

Luke 22
1Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover. 2And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.

John 19
11Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Acts 5
27And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them, 28Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. 29Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

1 Corinthians 2
8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Blik · Dec 3, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

You say faith in the gospel, but scripture says faith in Christ. We are told that Christ came to say repent, for the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN has come near. There are 128 times the gospel speaks of this kingdom and how to live in it. We are to have faith in what Christ says.

How many of us bless our enemies and even the heretics, by doing good for them and simply telling them the truth? How many never, once murder as Christ explains murder? How many of us truly want God's kingdom to be our first loyalty and our home and not the kingdoms with treasures of the flesh?

The Lord sets a high standard, but He covets us with His righteousness when we miss the mark. The only thing is that we are to WANT to not miss the mark of the high standards God sets for us, we are to repent.

ResidentAlien · Dec 4, 2021

Jon-E said:

The body of Christ in history and especially following the Protestant Reformation exists in various denominations. The early church formulated what are called by many, the three Ecumenical Creeds teaching about the Trinity and without the Trinity you do not have the body of Christ. After the Reformation various churches formulated their Confessions of Faith such as the Book of Concord by the Lutherans, Westminster Standards by the Presbyterians, the 39 Articles of the Church of England/Episcopal, the First and Second London Confessions of the Baptists, etc. There is much agreement on the fundamentals of the faith as found in these early documents. For instance, I have felt comfortable sitting in a Lutheran, Anglican, Presbyterian church worship service as well as my own 'original' Baptist denomination. When I began to see the lies taught in the independent, fundamentalist Baptist church I was raised in; I purchased the documents of the various denominations in existence in the early years of America, back when God blessed America. I was amazed at the similarity of teaching on salvation. One thing I noticed was the clear teaching of unconditional or unmerited election found in them all, which is so solidly based on the Bible and defended against freewillism by Martin Luther in his Bondage of the Will:

"And it is this very state of the truth, that of necessity proves "Free-will" to be nothing at all; seeing that, the love and hatred of God towards men is immutable and eternal; existing, not only before there was any merit or work of "Free-will," but before the worlds were made; and that, all things take place in us from necessity, accordingly as He loved or loved not from all eternity. So that, not the love of God only, but even the manner of His love imposes on us necessity. Here then it may be seen, how much its invented ways of escape profit the Diatribe; for the more it attempts to get away from the truth, the more it runs upon it; with so little success does it fight against it!" https://www.truecovenanter.com/truelutheran/luther_bow.html#pt2

Most so-called Protestants, Baptists today teach what was the Roman Catholic doctrine they held on free will and works! It amusing because some who are so vocally anti-Papist teach Roman Catholic doctrine on the matter of works, freewill and predestination. If you doubt me, read the Roman Catholic Commentary that is online. Read its comments on Acts 13:48, James 2:18, Rom. 3:20, Eph. 2:8. You notice the comment on Eph. 2:8 clearly adds works to faith for salvation because Catholics blend justification and sanctification into one doctrine.

Luther in the preceding from Bondage of the Will, is refuting the teaching of the Roman Catholics in this book, Erasmus in particular here. Today in the US there are over 200 various churches and groups, and most in this day have turned 'faith' into a work therefore meriting salvation by their belief or adding works. There certainly cannot be 200 versions of God's truth. The churches of Christ were given instruction in the Scripture:

"knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation. For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Ghost." (2Pet 1:20-21, ERV)

A true child of God has the indwelling Holy Spirit to help and illuminate the words that he inspired to be written. The church also has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not going to teach an individual a private interpretation and the overall church another. Of course the denominations vary in modes of baptism and in organization of church government; also there are liturgical churches like the Lutheran and Anglicans; but the body of God's truth is in agreement among them.

Even the Arminian theology of the early Methodists, such as found in the British Methodist commentator Adam Clarke, is a much more accurate belief system than you hear preached by the many pulpits today. I did not purchase the Methodist Confession to study when I left the fundamentalists, because it was mainly a movement within the Church of England and only became a separate denomination officially or legally in 1784. Date taken from the 14th Edition(2018) of Denominations in the US.

Maybe I should have looked for a statement of beliefs or standards on this Forum before joining.

Honestly, this to me is a lot of gobbledy gook. You lost me after the first two or three sentences; I can't relate to it at all. Perhaps you did join the wrong forum if that's the kind of discussion you're after. But I hope you'll stick around awhile and hear what others have to say.

What's wrong with God's word? Why not just teach that?

I recently watched a video made by a reformed Lutheran. He said they follow the Book of Concord and "there is nothing in here at all that that conflicts with God's word." If that's the case, why not just teach the scriptures? Why follow a man-made book when we have the living word of God??

awelight · Dec 4, 2021

Blik said:

There are two problems with this thought process.

1) In which Christ are you believing? The one of the Gospel or some manmade Jesus? The Impeccable Jesus Christ or the Peccable Jesus Christ? The One who is fully God and Fully man or one who was just a man or a prophet? The Second Person of the Godhead or the Jesus that came into being at the incarnation?

Only through the Gospel - The full revelation of Jesus Christ, can one be sure they know THE Jesus Christ of the Bible.

Mar_16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
Rom_2:16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
1Co_9:23 And I do all things for the gospel's sake, that I may be a joint partaker thereof.
Gal_1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema.

The Gospel and Jesus Christ, are so interwoven they cannot be separated. Therefore, if the Gospel message is wrong, one is pointed to another Christ.

2) The Kingdom age is yet future. The kingdom is not now and we are not in it "Physically Speaking" but we will be. The Kingdom "drawing" near and being in the "midst" of you, was in the form of the King. The King had drawn near and was in the midst of the people. Thus, the kingdom was near.

The following verses prove that the Kingdom, in it's physical form, was yet future:

Luke_19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country, to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

The Disciples/Apostles - knew of know Kingdom, that had been established and asked Christ about it:

Acts_1:6 They therefore, when they were come together, asked him, saying, Lord, Will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?

The local Assemblies of Christ, are today, a spiritual and physical form of the coming Kingdom, which will be established at Christ's second advent.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 4, 2021

Blik said:

“We are to have faith in what Christ says.”

right he was sent to Preach the gospel the gospel is what Jesus preached as well as his death and resurrection . It’s “the gospel of the kingdom “

and amen to what your saying the key is in our true heart do we love what the world offers ?

or do we love Jesus and what he offers in the kingdom ?

the way we live is because of the way we believe if we first learn the gospel and believe then we will Know what Hod has offered and what he has said we can either believe the gospel or reject it

we have to want the kingdom he preached that comes after this world and lasts forever. And so we then need to start living by the law of his kingdom his ( Jesus ) teachings and commands. His word rules the kingdom of God

I totally agree the key is what we really love the worlds offerings for us ? Or Gods ?

Jon-E · Dec 6, 2021

Consider the following if you think you don't need the teachings of the body of Christ in unity, but are depending solely on your own "private interpretation", which you picked up from someone you know little about, or what are their qualifications.

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as also ye were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all." (Eph 4:4-6, ERV)

"Therefore my people are gone into captivity, for lack of knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude are parched with thirst." (Isa 5:13, ERV)

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I also will forget thy children. (Hos 4:6, ERV)

"For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God." (Rom 10:2-3, ERV)

How many of you, if you need open heart surgery, are not going to research the university acquired credentials and track record of the surgeon who will operate, as well as the hospital's record? Yet, so many will sit under a Pastor who had a 2-year correspondence Bible course taught by who knows who; and sits soaking up the garbage on TBN. Isn't the spiritual situation as critical to your heart as the physical is?

The Apostle Paul in some way had "books" as well as parchments, so he studied broadly.

"The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, bring when thou comest, and the books, especially the parchments." (2Tim 4:13, ERV)

Any Historically orthodox Christians here?

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