Well that is surprising to me! I thought you were on the other side for some reason.
I guess I had you confused with someone else. No wonder now you mentioning that!
Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
- Thread starter HatedForNoReason
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Well that is surprising to me! I thought you were on the other side for some reason.
I guess I had you confused with someone else. No wonder now you mentioning that!
Isaiah 65 is about new earth. It has nothing to do with anything prior to Rev 21.
Where is this supposed requirement for mortal bodies?
It doesn't matter if we take Isaiah as the period of the 1000 year reign or after!
If all are resurrected at the Second Coming, there can be no humans with natural bodies left.
They will all be immortal having been translated at the resurrection.
But that's not the case with the pre-trib theory, it allows the 7 year gap for those with natural bodies.
Life goes on forever with children being born. that's why God takes away the seas, whcih gives 2 times more room for mankind.
Oh come on. Everyone knows this isn't true. Not even your pretribbers buddies are going to support this nonsense.
The end goes right back to the beginning. God created man to live forever in the flesh and to reproduce.
God is in the process of taking mankind in a 360 right back to the Garden of Eden. But the Garden will be the entire earth.
"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." - Isaiah 65:17-20 KJV
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:1-4 KJV
Revelation 21 does a very uncanny throwback to the phrasing in Isaiah 65, which leaves me convinced that they are both discussing the same thing. Even if you don't also find it compelling, it still stands as a valid interpretation of the fulfilment of that prophesy. You certainly couldn't claim that the Isaiah 65 timeline is necessarily in the 1000 year reign.
I just don't see where it is a requirement to have anyone living with a mortal body during the 1000 year reign. And even if you did find something (let's say the reference to Gog and Magog as evidence of mortal beings), it's still could be the case that these are supernaturally raised beings (like stones into Abraham's descendants) or the concept that many people resurrect but two types of resurrections take place at any resurrection event (that not all those that lacked the mark of the beast were necessarily in Christ or something? and therefore mortal? I feel like there is some contradiction in that approach that isn't coming to mind at the moment).
If there is a need for mortals there, for whatever reason, it can't be fulfilled by Christian mortals because all Christians are either resurrected into a celestial body or are changed into one. If there are mortals they are necessarily nonChristian (specifically: not in Christ).
Unless there is something that allows for the concept of multiple waves of resurrections (maybe some individuals that find Christ during the 1000 year reign and then join the second resurrection?). I'm not opposed to the interpretation that "salvation unto righteousness" and "salvation unto damnation" could be descriptions of types rather than instances.
Well... If I recall correctly, wasn't there some passage about the kingdom not being inherited by flesh?
I'm interested to hear more, I just don't understand how your model of interpretation works.
Nope. I don't know what sect or cult teaches this or if you came up with it on your own but it's pure hogwash. There might be childbirth in the thousand years but it doesn't and cannot happen in the eternity.
And your math is just as bad. Even with no seas eventually there would not be enough room on the Earth if immortals had children.
Not even with New Jerusalem being 1500 miles square, which means it is 1500 miles wide, deep, and high, as an example of what earth will be?
Rev. 21:16
"And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal."
This single city is 1500 miles square, even 1500 miles high! if this is an indication of what the cites will be like at that time, there will enough room. Who knows what other space we will have access to not on this earth.
1Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
Amen Brother, I didn't even think of that! I know all this is unbelievable to mortal man, but by faith I believe it!
Just think, we have heard of this 1500 hundred mile city from John, just imagine what we haven't heard!
Do you not understand that unlimited immortal children means the Earth would be full eventually?
Who said the immortal can reproduce? I'm speaking of the mortal natural bodies reproducing.
Zechariah says there will be children in the streets during the Millennial reign. Where does the scripture say this ends?
Zech. 8:3-5
"Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.
Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.
And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof."
When was the last time you heard of the Lord dwelling in Jerusalem? Maybe around 2000 years ago?
But let me guess, it's symbolic right? The Lord is not there in the flesh as the men, women and children are, right?
There is still nothing about the Millennium in that passage. Seriously, you think after the second coming that Jerusalem will be full of old men and women, men holding staffs and little children playing in the streets? That's not going to happen. Jerusalem will be populated only by the immortal saints and Christ. The only mortals will be elsewhere in the world, those ruled over by the rod of iron.
No, the biblical teaching has no problems.
Well, let's take a look at the passage.
20 “Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.
21 They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the work of their hands.
23They will not labor in vain, nor will they bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the LORD, they and their descendants with them.
24 Before they call I will answer; while they are still speaking I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the LORD.
I don't see any problem here. v.20 seems clear enough to be describing the Millennial reign of Christ. There will be peace on earth during the Reign of Christ.
The real question is about who the passage refers to, by "infant" and "old man". Since ALL believers will be glorified at the Second Advent, who is left to populate the earth? Those unbelievers who survive the Tribulation. If the verses that say that 1/4 and 1/3 of the population will be destroyed during the Trib, by today's calculation, that would leave about 3.5 billion people, minus the believers gathered when Christ returns. Still a substantial number left.
Those who think that there will be saved people left on earth to populate it, how do they explain the "whole earth" rebellion when Satan is released to gather the armies together to attack Jerusalem?
I could never figure that out, that if unglorified believers populate the earth, why would there be a huge rebellion at the end? There should be, instead, a 1,000 years of happy partying with Jesus as King.
Instead, we know that Jesus will "rule with a rod of iron" (that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father - Rev 2:27). Glorified believers will reign with Christ.
Now read matt 5. Life will be very strict during the Millennium. Jesus will rule according to the "spirit of the Law", not the "letter of the Law". iow, people will be held accountable for their INTENTIONS, not just actions. All actions have an intent. And the unbelievers will become VERY RESENTFUl at being held accountable for their thoughts, even before they act. That's what Matt 5 teaches.
Correct. The pre-trib account has a problem with that, if they think there will be unglorified believers in the Millennium. That would mean they NEVER get a glorified body, since there is NO prophecy concerning that.
And 1 Cor 15:23 then can't be true. "But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him."
Where would a pretribber place unglorified believers from the Trib since 1 Cor 15:23 is true?
Only if you accept the idea that Tribulation believers will NEVER receive a glorified body. So how will they be able to exist in the "new heaven and earth"? There is NO mention of multiple resurrections in the Bible.