Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
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Part of the recent for that is because Jesus is the second Adam Adam was an eternal being he was flesh and blood but eternal and so he lost all that when he send in the garden because the enemy said on that day you will die and death became Adam and Eve's portion so in the second Adam we see some of that reclaimed. Jesus didn't come to make us like Adam he came to be the second Adam and so it's different now Adam had a bride and Jesus has a bride so we are not Adam he is but an axe we see the Declaration at the restoration of all things and so we see that there is a certain incompleteness in the disembodied Saints that now populate heaven and so just as Jesus resurrected into a glorified body the Saints will also resurrect into a glorified body that's why it says those that are his will be present at his coming he comes with those disembodied spirits that are made complete with their new resurrected bodies which become glorified bodies exactly like those that are living and caught up and changed in the clouds. A second reason for the glorified bodies I believe is saying at the Last Supper Jesus said I will no longer drink of the fruit of the vine until I drink it Anew with you in my father's Kingdom I do not believe disembodied Spirits eat and drink
Here is my post edited;
Part of the reason for that is because Jesus is the second Adam
Adam was an eternal being he was flesh and blood but eternal and so he lost all that when he send in the garden because the enemy said on that day you will die...
and death became Adam and Eve's portion .
so in the second Adam we see some of that reclaimed. Jesus didn't come to make us like Adam he came to be the second Adam and so it's different now Adam had a bride and Jesus has a bride.
so we are not Adam he is but an axe we see the Declaration "at the restoration of all things" and so we see that there is a certain incompleteness in the disembodied Saints that now populate heaven...
and so just as Jesus resurrected into a glorified body the Saints will also resurrect into a glorified body that's why it says those that are his will be present at his coming he comes with those disembodied spirits that are made complete with their new resurrected bodies.... which become glorified bodies exactly like those that are living and caught up and changed in the clouds.
A second reason for the glorified bodies I believe is saying at the Last Supper Jesus said I will no longer drink of the fruit of the vine until I drink it Anew with you in my father's Kingdom I do not believe disembodied Spirits eat and drink
Part of the reason for that is because Jesus is the second Adam
Adam was an eternal being he was flesh and blood but eternal and so he lost all that when he send in the garden because the enemy said on that day you will die...
and death became Adam and Eve's portion .
so in the second Adam we see some of that reclaimed. Jesus didn't come to make us like Adam he came to be the second Adam and so it's different now Adam had a bride and Jesus has a bride.
so we are not Adam he is but an axe we see the Declaration "at the restoration of all things" and so we see that there is a certain incompleteness in the disembodied Saints that now populate heaven...
and so just as Jesus resurrected into a glorified body the Saints will also resurrect into a glorified body that's why it says those that are his will be present at his coming he comes with those disembodied spirits that are made complete with their new resurrected bodies.... which become glorified bodies exactly like those that are living and caught up and changed in the clouds.
A second reason for the glorified bodies I believe is saying at the Last Supper Jesus said I will no longer drink of the fruit of the vine until I drink it Anew with you in my father's Kingdom I do not believe disembodied Spirits eat and drink
"""Now I will be preaching about how to receive the Holy Spirit and be 100% going to Heaven.
First, it’s only by the grace of God that he gives you faith in Jesus Christ in order to give up your sins. It’s only by the grace of God that he leads you to pray to him to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or any sinful desires."""
Nope
Acts lays out how BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS Got the baptism of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands.
They received a second work by the Holy Spirit in power....a literal baptism fire and of the spirit and spoke in tongues and did miracles.
Jesus laid out that pattern at his baptism . He got a second baptism of the Holy Spirit and it was only then he began his ministry.
Jesus walked in the same pattern that he intended us to walk in. He walked as a man filled with the Holy Spirit in power to change everything around him. It amazes me how you preach on the Holy Spirit ,and yet ignore what the Bible teaches us about the Holy Spirit.
Face palm
First, it’s only by the grace of God that he gives you faith in Jesus Christ in order to give up your sins. It’s only by the grace of God that he leads you to pray to him to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or any sinful desires."""
Nope
Acts lays out how BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS Got the baptism of the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands.
They received a second work by the Holy Spirit in power....a literal baptism fire and of the spirit and spoke in tongues and did miracles.
Jesus laid out that pattern at his baptism . He got a second baptism of the Holy Spirit and it was only then he began his ministry.
Jesus walked in the same pattern that he intended us to walk in. He walked as a man filled with the Holy Spirit in power to change everything around him. It amazes me how you preach on the Holy Spirit ,and yet ignore what the Bible teaches us about the Holy Spirit.
Face palm
And more.
Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15, and 1 Cor 15:23 all have the word "resurrection" in the Greek singular.
This proves that there is only one resurrection for saved people. So your challenge is to figure out where a singular resurrection fits the Bible.
Since you only get ONE point in time, it has to include the living believers as well, since 1 Thess 4 is clear that both dead and living believers receive their glorified bodies at the same event.
A pretrib resurrection will eliminate all the trib martyrs from their resurrection.
Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15, and 1 Cor 15:23 all have the word "resurrection" in the Greek singular.
This proves that there is only one resurrection for saved people. So your challenge is to figure out where a singular resurrection fits the Bible.
Since you only get ONE point in time, it has to include the living believers as well, since 1 Thess 4 is clear that both dead and living believers receive their glorified bodies at the same event.
A pretrib resurrection will eliminate all the trib martyrs from their resurrection.
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I did. Why don't you read my posts?
Rev 14 is a look-ahead. Don't take that chapter sequentially. No wonder you are so confused.
I will.
I do.
No omission. But how come you can't address the Bible's teaching about only ONE resurrection for the saved?
Since there is only one, where do you think it is placed on the timeline?
Checkmate!
Rev 14 is a look-ahead. Don't take that chapter sequentially. No wonder you are so confused.
I will.
I do.
No omission. But how come you can't address the Bible's teaching about only ONE resurrection for the saved?
Since there is only one, where do you think it is placed on the timeline?
Checkmate!
This doesn't explain why the "2W" are resurrected (and ascend up to Heaven, no less) at the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe" point in the chronology, at a time-slot DISTINCT from when all other saints will be "resurrected". 
After Paul says, in 1Cor15:23 "[re: resurrection] but EACH [a word meaning, "of more than two"] in his own ORDER / RANK," he later in vv.51-53 talks specifically about "THIS corruptible" (i.e. "the DEAD IN Christ" who "sleep through Jesus") [and "THIS mortal"--the "we which are ALIVE and remain" component of the "ONE BODY" who are ALSO "IN Christ"]... which he'd just stated, "Behold, I SHEW you a mystery..."
After Paul says, in 1Cor15:23 "[re: resurrection] but EACH [a word meaning, "of more than two"] in his own ORDER / RANK," he later in vv.51-53 talks specifically about "THIS corruptible" (i.e. "the DEAD IN Christ" who "sleep through Jesus") [and "THIS mortal"--the "we which are ALIVE and remain" component of the "ONE BODY" who are ALSO "IN Christ"]... which he'd just stated, "Behold, I SHEW you a mystery..."
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FreeGrace2 said:
This proves that there is only one resurrection for saved people.
Is this an argument AGAINST the 4 verses that say there is ONE resurrection of the saved????
btw, where do you get the idea that the 2W are given glorified bodies when God calls them back up to heaven? Recall, they NEVER physically died. So this their FIRST death, a physical one. They will be resurrected when EVERY BELIEVER is resurrected, in that SINGLE resurrection "when He comes". Hmm. Wonder what that means.
Gotta break up your long sentences to correct where necessary. The word doesn't mean "more than two". That's just your wish.
1 Cor 15:23 couldn't be any more clear. Jesus' resurrection is called "firstfruits" because He is the FIRST human to receive the resurrection glorified body. We know this from Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
So, all the people that Jesus and His disciples "raised from the dead" obviously died again. They did NOT receive their resurrection body when Jesus and company raised them from the dead.
1 Cor 15:23 then goes on to say that "when He comes", a clear reference to Jesus' Second Advent, "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. All of them. From Adam on.
So, again, there is just ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE for the unsaved. That's what the 4 verses say.
And we know from Rev 20:5 that the resurrection of the trib martyrs is called the FIRST one. That's when ALL believers will be given their glorified bodies.
This proves that there is only one resurrection for saved people.
Is this an argument AGAINST the 4 verses that say there is ONE resurrection of the saved????
btw, where do you get the idea that the 2W are given glorified bodies when God calls them back up to heaven? Recall, they NEVER physically died. So this their FIRST death, a physical one. They will be resurrected when EVERY BELIEVER is resurrected, in that SINGLE resurrection "when He comes". Hmm. Wonder what that means.
Gotta break up your long sentences to correct where necessary. The word doesn't mean "more than two". That's just your wish.
1 Cor 15:23 couldn't be any more clear. Jesus' resurrection is called "firstfruits" because He is the FIRST human to receive the resurrection glorified body. We know this from Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
So, all the people that Jesus and His disciples "raised from the dead" obviously died again. They did NOT receive their resurrection body when Jesus and company raised them from the dead.
1 Cor 15:23 then goes on to say that "when He comes", a clear reference to Jesus' Second Advent, "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. All of them. From Adam on.
So, again, there is just ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE for the unsaved. That's what the 4 verses say.
And we know from Rev 20:5 that the resurrection of the trib martyrs is called the FIRST one. That's when ALL believers will be given their glorified bodies.
Of course they are completely different to anyone else in history. They NEVER physically died. That's what makes them different. God called them to Paradise apart from physical death.
1 Cor 15:23 refutes your belief. There is just ONE resurrection of the saved and that will include the 2 W. So their being raised to life doesn't mean they get a glorified body.
1 Cor 15:23 tells us in plain language that Jesus is the first to receive a glorified body, and "when He comes", which is the Second Advent, "those who belong to Him", which is every believer since Adam forward.
1 Cor 15:23 refutes your belief. There is just ONE resurrection of the saved and that will include the 2 W. So their being raised to life doesn't mean they get a glorified body.
1 Cor 15:23 tells us in plain language that Jesus is the first to receive a glorified body, and "when He comes", which is the Second Advent, "those who belong to Him", which is every believer since Adam forward.
Well (and I've tried to explain this in past post), I believe it is verse 20 that speaks of Jesus being "firstfruit of those having fallen asleep" (Christ "has been raised out-from [ek] the dead").
Next, skipping past verse 21, verse 22 goes on to speak of [others, not Jesus] "For as IN ADAM all die, even so IN CHRIST shall [future tense] all BE MADE ALIVE" (Jesus was "conceived" in her/Mary by the Holy Spirit [Matt1:20], right? OR, would you say that Jesus Himself was "IN ADAM"?)
So, continuing further [next, and staying in the FLOW OF what has been said to this point] in the passage, v.23 continues on from there to be speaking of man who is born [originally] "IN ADAM" though the ones "IN CHRIST" are of course born again / -from above / saved persons (those having come to faith / believers). In other words, it is not back-tracking to speak of Jesus AGAIN, here (as though He were among those "IN ADAM").
And since James 1:18 says that we are "a KIND of firstfruit," this means there is *more than ONE "kind"... and this v.23b is speaking of THIS "firstfruit" (connected with Christ, in the same way as 1Cor12:12 had just previously spoken of: "...and all the members of that ONE BODY, being many, are ONE BODY: so also is THE CHRIST." This isn't saying "all you Christians / believers are one body; and Jesus Himself is ANOTHER one body". No.)
Then the next part of v.23 says, "afterward/then [epeita - G1899 - 'only then'] those [plural] who are OF Christ at His coming (I believe this refers to both OT saints [Dan12:13 / Job19:25-27 / Jn11:24] AND the saints who will DIE in the future Trib yrs [Rev20:4b, etc]), referring to His Second Coming to the earth point in time [not "our Rapture" point in the chronology]).
V.24 goes on to speak of "THEN [G1534 - eita] the end..." which I believe we agree on this point. (When "the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" at the GWTj point in the chronology)
[*note: the future "144,000" are called "firsfruit" also--but not the same group as "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" / US; I've pointed out the TWO mentions of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Leviticus 23... in past posts]
One important key, I think, is the word (enlarged above), "G1899 - epeita - ONLY THEN" (this wouldn't be said BY PAUL if it meant "only then" after Christ's OWN resurrection that had taken place well before Paul wrote this)
Next, skipping past verse 21, verse 22 goes on to speak of [others, not Jesus] "For as IN ADAM all die, even so IN CHRIST shall [future tense] all BE MADE ALIVE" (Jesus was "conceived" in her/Mary by the Holy Spirit [Matt1:20], right? OR, would you say that Jesus Himself was "IN ADAM"?)
So, continuing further [next, and staying in the FLOW OF what has been said to this point] in the passage, v.23 continues on from there to be speaking of man who is born [originally] "IN ADAM" though the ones "IN CHRIST" are of course born again / -from above / saved persons (those having come to faith / believers). In other words, it is not back-tracking to speak of Jesus AGAIN, here (as though He were among those "IN ADAM").
And since James 1:18 says that we are "a KIND of firstfruit," this means there is *more than ONE "kind"... and this v.23b is speaking of THIS "firstfruit" (connected with Christ, in the same way as 1Cor12:12 had just previously spoken of: "...and all the members of that ONE BODY, being many, are ONE BODY: so also is THE CHRIST." This isn't saying "all you Christians / believers are one body; and Jesus Himself is ANOTHER one body". No.)
Then the next part of v.23 says, "afterward/then [epeita - G1899 - 'only then'] those [plural] who are OF Christ at His coming (I believe this refers to both OT saints [Dan12:13 / Job19:25-27 / Jn11:24] AND the saints who will DIE in the future Trib yrs [Rev20:4b, etc]), referring to His Second Coming to the earth point in time [not "our Rapture" point in the chronology]).
V.24 goes on to speak of "THEN [G1534 - eita] the end..." which I believe we agree on this point. (When "the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" at the GWTj point in the chronology)
[*note: the future "144,000" are called "firsfruit" also--but not the same group as "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" / US; I've pointed out the TWO mentions of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Leviticus 23... in past posts]
One important key, I think, is the word (enlarged above), "G1899 - epeita - ONLY THEN" (this wouldn't be said BY PAUL if it meant "only then" after Christ's OWN resurrection that had taken place well before Paul wrote this)
FreeGrace2 said:
1 Cor 15:23 couldn't be any more clear. Jesus' resurrection is called "firstfruits" because He is the FIRST human to receive the resurrection glorified body.
This analogy is flawed. Of course no verse exists in isolation from any other verse. The words "those who belong to Him" is a reference to every saved person from Adam on. Prove that wrong, if you can. But you won't be able to do that. How can anyone prove that there are believers who DON'T belong to Christ? That would be insane.
Further, 1 Cor 15:23 isn't the only verse on a single resurrection.
Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
Count how many Jesus notes. I see "the resurrection". How do you get "waves" or "stages" or "series" from that? Greek is singular.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Count how many resurrections. Paul says "A resurrection". One for the saved and one for the unsaved. The Greek is singular.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. “when He comes” is in the singular.
The thrust of ch 15 is all about the resurrection of believers. We know that Christ's resurrection is described as "first fruits" because He was the FIRST ONE to receive His resurrection body.
Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
So, from all these verses, we KNOW that there will be just ONE resurrection of the saved (all of them) and ONE resurrection of the unsaved, which is their call to the GWT judgment in Rev 20:11-15.
This is just a very glaring example of conflating unrelated verses. James wasn't speaking of resurrection at all, so you have no point.
Go to Acts 26:23 to UNDERSTAND why Paul calls Jesus' resurrection "first fruits". He was the FIRST One to receive His resurrection body (glorified).
Then "when He comes" which is a clear reference to the Second Advent, "those who belong to Him" will be given their resurrection (glorified) bodies. All at the same event.
1 Cor 15:23 couldn't be any more clear. Jesus' resurrection is called "firstfruits" because He is the FIRST human to receive the resurrection glorified body.
This analogy is flawed. Of course no verse exists in isolation from any other verse. The words "those who belong to Him" is a reference to every saved person from Adam on. Prove that wrong, if you can. But you won't be able to do that. How can anyone prove that there are believers who DON'T belong to Christ? That would be insane.
Further, 1 Cor 15:23 isn't the only verse on a single resurrection.
Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
Count how many Jesus notes. I see "the resurrection". How do you get "waves" or "stages" or "series" from that? Greek is singular.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Count how many resurrections. Paul says "A resurrection". One for the saved and one for the unsaved. The Greek is singular.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. “when He comes” is in the singular.
The thrust of ch 15 is all about the resurrection of believers. We know that Christ's resurrection is described as "first fruits" because He was the FIRST ONE to receive His resurrection body.
Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
So, from all these verses, we KNOW that there will be just ONE resurrection of the saved (all of them) and ONE resurrection of the unsaved, which is their call to the GWT judgment in Rev 20:11-15.
This is just a very glaring example of conflating unrelated verses. James wasn't speaking of resurrection at all, so you have no point.
Go to Acts 26:23 to UNDERSTAND why Paul calls Jesus' resurrection "first fruits". He was the FIRST One to receive His resurrection body (glorified).
Then "when He comes" which is a clear reference to the Second Advent, "those who belong to Him" will be given their resurrection (glorified) bodies. All at the same event.
FreeGrace2 said:
No omission. But how come you can't address the Bible's teaching about only ONE resurrection for the saved?
The Greek word can be translated as "rise from the dead". And, yes, many dead saints did rise from the dead. As well as those that Jesus raised from the dead and His disciples.
This is the issue: we know from 1 Cor 15:52 and 1 Thess 4 that at THAT resurrection, the dead and living will receive glorified bodies.
It is THAT single resurrection that I'm talking about and the one that the Bible teaches that there is just ONE for the saved.
I hope this clarifies for you.
No omission. But how come you can't address the Bible's teaching about only ONE resurrection for the saved?
The Greek word can be translated as "rise from the dead". And, yes, many dead saints did rise from the dead. As well as those that Jesus raised from the dead and His disciples.
This is the issue: we know from 1 Cor 15:52 and 1 Thess 4 that at THAT resurrection, the dead and living will receive glorified bodies.
It is THAT single resurrection that I'm talking about and the one that the Bible teaches that there is just ONE for the saved.
I hope this clarifies for you.