How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[DavidTree]

He experiences "all time at the same time all the time" - in a way that is unique to Him.

He is "outside of time" in the sense that:

"At one time there was no time."

(i.e. - it did not exist until He created it)

That is the way I look at it.

I have a AMB, Amplified Musical Bible, that will play a song for many verses/passages in the Bible.

When i turn to Revelation 10:6 And the angel swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and everything in it, the earth and everything in it, and the sea and everything in it: “There should be time no longer!

This is the song they play for that particular verse =

 

[Absolutely]

The Revelation 20 resurrection is when the resurrection of all the dead in Christ takes place. Revelation 20 only focuses upon that one group but all the dead in Christ rise at that same time. Also, the dead are never raptured. The living are raptured, not resurrected and the dead are resurrected not raptured. The former dead descend from heaven with Christ, while the changed living saints ascend upwards from the Earth.

Show me the wording of a time frame of resurrection in those seated on thrones in rev 20.

It ONLY SAYS they were once beheaded, but now live and sit on thrones.

But you have made it say more.
You added to the book.
Not a good idea

Now you rev 20 "1st and only resurrection adherents" need to know something.

You are seeing a scene on earth AFTER THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON.

SO....you are placing the resurrection of 1 thes 4 AFTER THE MEGEDDO BATTLE.
Interesting
Interestingly false and impossible.

You guys really painted yourselves onto a corner.

Can even one of you reconcile that blunder?????

 

[DavidTree]

Show me the wording of a time frame of resurrection in those seated on thrones in rev 20.

It ONLY SAYS they were once beheaded, but now live and sit on thrones.

But you have made it say more.
You added to the book.
Not a good idea

Now you rev 20 "1st and only resurrection adherents" need to know something.

You are seeing a scene on earth AFTER THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON.

SO....you are placing the resurrection of 1 thes 4 AFTER THE MEGEDDO BATTLE.
Interesting
Interestingly false and impossible.

You guys really painted yourselves onto a corner.

Can even one of you reconcile that blunder?????

NOPE, not at all.

Revelation chapters 19 and 20 are not a separated event. They are one event showing some of the characteristics of the purpose of God's Plan concerning the culmination of the Saints/Bride being fulfilled (Rev 6:9-11).

Which is exactly what has been stated by the LORD in the Gospels and by the Apostles.
That the Second Coming of Christ is the Completed Plan and Gathering together in ONE Bride and once that completion takes Place, which is the pre-determined number of Saints who die in the Lord.

Any attempt to separate the Body of Christ with falsehood is in serious sin.

It is written, "What God has joined together let no man separate" and "I hate divorce(separation) says the LORD."

 

[Absolutely]

Hey there, David. Ain’t happening! … cause no pretrib rapture scripture exists.

Those who believe in the pretrib rapture theory and use the 1 Thessalonians 4 verses as proof are just not interpreting these verses correctly.

4:13-18: The subject in these verses is WHERE are the dead (or those who have fallen asleep)? Paul is saying that God’s Word says that everyone who has died is with God (already changed into their spiritual bodies and in heaven—some on the good side of the gulf aand some on the bad side). Ecclesiastes 12:7 tells us that all spirits will return to God when we die.

When Jesus returns at the 2nd Coming, all those who are still alive will be changed into spiritual bodies (air). The dead in Christ who have already been changed will, of course, precede those who are still alive on earth in physical bodies because they are already there.

These verses have nothing to do with any kind of rapture theory. They are all about what happens when we die and are words for comfort.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

- 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (NKJV)

IOW
In your superrior wisdom the dead in Christ are raised at the coming on white horses.

That puts the living of rev14:14 gathered before the dead in Christ.

Yep you guys are really doing a good job.

 

[DavidTree]

IOW
In your superrior wisdom the dead in Christ are raised at the coming on white horses.

That puts the living of rev14:14 raised before the dead in Christ.

Yep you guys are really doing a good job.

There is No Resurrection before the First Resurrection in chapter 20.

Rev 14:14 is part of one statement beginning with verse 12.

v12 Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
v13 And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
v14 "And I looked and saw a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was One like the Son of Man, with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand."

The LORD does not use a sharp sickle/pruning hook to rapture his Saints and HE knows this and so should those who speak. If you do not understand, then do not speak error by adding or taking away from God's words.

There will be NO rapture until His Second Coming and the Resurrection take splace FIRST = 1 Thess & 2 Thess, 1 Cor ch15, Heb 9:28

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

There will be NO rapture until His Second Coming

So you're having "the Church which is His body" going through "the wrath of God" (which you believe only exists within the "7 Vials"... and yet the 6th Vial leads up to "Armageddon" per Rev16:12[16])... how is that??







[1Th1:10 - "...the One delivering us out-from [ek] the wrath coming"; "...hath not appointed us unto wrath..." 5:9]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ See also Revelation 15:1 along with those verses ^ [re: the "7 Vials"... where it says of them, "for IN THEM the wrath of God is completed"]

and yet the 6th Vial leads up to "Armageddon" per Rev16:12[16]

 

[DavidTree]

So you're having "the Church which is His body" going through "the wrath of God" (which you believe only exists within the "7 Vials"... and yet the 6th Vial leads up to "Armageddon" per Rev16:12[16])... how is that??


[1Th1:10 - "...the One delivering us out-from [ek] the wrath coming"; "...hath not appointed us unto wrath..." 5:9]

My favorite Scripture that helps us see clearly the Love of God and Fear of God in the Second Coming of Christ = 1 Thess 1:10

and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

This is the ABC's of His Second Coming

A.) "wait for His Son from Heaven" = Make a note of this = He is Coming from Heaven and we are Waiting for His Coming
B.) "raised from the dead" = Resurrection = HE is Coming with Resurrection FIRST = Salvation First = Heb 9:28
C.) "Deliverer from Coming Wrath" = The LORD is Both Salvation and Judge/Wrath upon the ungodly = God is Ambidextrous
HE has a Right hand and a Left Hand and HE uses them BOTH with EQUAL Power

 

[Friend]

“Paul describes the scenario that would be present had we had been “left behind”; that had it been true, anti-Christ would have been there for all of them to see. That is they would have all been seeing the immediate signs of those times. But Paul assures them that that would not be the case for them.”

2Th 2:2 You should not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

Even in the times of Paul there were those saying that the day of the Lord had come and gone. That is, false prophets in the times of Paul were already suggesting that people had been "left behind"

But Paul, seeking to comfort the Thessalonians, reminds them (in brief) of what he taught them while he was with them.

2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

That is, great apostasy preceding the times of Anti-Christ; (and expressly) that his revealing would be (evident) to literally everyone on earth.

2Th 2:6 And you know what restrains him now; in order that in his time, he will be revealed.

Therefore, in the times of the great false prophet there will be the tell-tale signs and great wonders taking place while the prophet is endorsing the lawlessness one, while at the same time institutionalizing the 666 inquisition.

 

[DavidTree]

“Paul describes the scenario that would be present had we had been “left behind”; that had it been true, anti-Christ would have been there for all of them to see. That is they would have all been seeing the immediate signs of those times. But Paul assures them that that would not be the case for them.”

2Th 2:2 You should not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

Even in the times of Paul there were those saying that the day of the Lord had come and gone. That is, false prophets in the times of Paul were already suggesting that people had been "left behind"

But Paul, seeking to comfort the Thessalonians, reminds them (in brief) of what he taught them while he was with them.

2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

That is, great apostasy preceding the times of Anti-Christ; (and expressly) that his revealing would be (evident) to literally everyone on earth.

2Th 2:6 And you know what restrains him now; in order that in his time, he will be revealed.

Therefore, in the times of the great false prophet there will be the tell-tale signs and great wonders taking place while the prophet is endorsing the lawlessness one, while at the same time institutionalizing the 666 inquisition.

There is no and are no "Left Behind" Saints.

Paul is descibing, in fact and detail, that the Coming of the LORD and our gathering to Him = 1 Thess 4:13-18,
will NOT COME = UNTIL = the falling away comes FIRST and man of sin is revealed.

That is EXACTLY how Paul wrote it and is read without any 'pre-trib' distortion and corruption of Scripture.

The Apostle Paul & Apostle John Testify to this Scripture Order and Fact - Amen

 

[Friend]

2Co 10:4-5 The weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but are divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. 5 We are destroying every speculation and every lofty thought raised up against the true knowledge of God, even taking every thought captive, to the obedience of Christ

“Paul describes the scenario that would be present had we had been “left behind”; that had it been true, anti-Christ would have been there for all of them to see. That is they would have all been seeing the immediate signs of those times. But Paul assures them that that would not be the case for them.”

2Th 2:2 You should not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

Even in the times of Paul there were those saying that the day of the Lord had come and gone. That is, false prophets in the times of Paul were already suggesting that people had been "left behind"

But Paul, seeking to comfort the Thessalonians, reminds them (in brief) of what he taught them while he was with them.

2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

That is, great apostasy preceding the times of Anti-Christ; (and expressly) that his revealing would be (evident) to literally everyone on earth.

2Th 2:6 And you know what restrains him now; in order that in his time, he will be revealed.

Therefore, in the times of the great false prophet there will be the tell-tale signs and great wonders taking place while the prophet is endorsing the lawlessness one, while at the same time institutionalizing the 666 inquisition.

Paul's first letter cannot be ignored; in that he was assuring the Thessalonians (two times) that they were not destined for wrath.

1Th 1:10 to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

1Th 5:9 God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining deliverance through our Lord Jesus Christ.

And it's not enough to stop here, because Paul, John, and our Lord were having much more to say. Things having already been revealed, but as they say: "Here we go again."

1Co 15:50-51 I say this brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed.

1Th 4:16-17 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

So, (((according to the false prophets))) here we have it; two passages leaving us with no scenario of there being people alive in their bodies of flesh; that is, not on the earth as we are knowing it now. And this is precisely the place where the narrative of a false prophet falls on its face, falling into their own trap. The legacy of the lie goes out, saturating the hearts of men; this being the basis for the nations (to first being weakened from within) before they start to crack and crumbed. Since empires have crumbled in the hands of the one having claims to forming them; then it's safe to say she has been the one responsible for adding or taking away words from the Book.

The end coming is dependent on truth/an unadulterated Gospel going out; as God intended it to be a testimony for all the nations to see.

Mat 24:14 “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The best strategy for Satan to remain free was the disinformation campaign he himself created, therefore (because of his followers/the false prophets going out)

Act 20:29-30 "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

it was destined that a significantly leavened gospel would go out into the world (but thereafter we would be washed of these things)

This is to say that Satan had the tools in place (the beasts of the sea) in order to spread disinformation throughout the world; namely that the reins of this advance would be in the hands of the Great Harlot.

Mat 13:33 He spoke another parable to them, “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of flour until it was all leavened.”

The Gospel has to be more than just saying, "A man indwelt by God was impaled while bearing our sins"; (otherwise the end would have already come). Even since the times of Constantine, all of us have been beaten over the head about God being three; as if it all depended on us believing that; (But if was depending on all the nations knowing about a three gospel) the end would have already come.

Therefore, (like that of their fathers) the false prophets will avoid anything that is substantive: like Jesus' description of at least three different "days of the Lord", even admitting it was the Father, and not He, that was knowing the exact timing.

Luk 17:22 And He said to the disciples, “The day(s) will come when you will long to see one of the day(s) of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

Jhn 6:40 "This is the will of My Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, even I Myself will raise him up in/G1722 the last day(s).

Even from ancient times, it was turning out that delays would work their way into the equation.

1Th 2:18 We wanted to come to you—I, Paul, more than once—and yet Satan hindered us.

Mat 25:5 "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep.

Rev 10:6 Swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there shall no longer be any delay.

 

[Friend]

The first Resurrection (for the righteous) started taking God's children home at the moment Jesus gave up His Spirit to the Father, extending up to and being completed immediately before the Second Resurrection: the judgement exclusively for the unrighteous: G.W. throne.

1Co 15:22-23 Even as in Adam all die, so also in Christ will all be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming(s).

Luk 17:22b The day(s) will come when you will long to see one of the day(s) of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

Both Passover and Pentecost were being anticipated; with most of His disciples, (and at least hundreds of others) living to either see or experience Jesus' returns. There were those with hopes of seeing their Lord alive in the flesh (and they did see Him) so it's safe to say He was attempting to connect our thoughts to the distant future; even warning not to follow the ones' who were saying, "the time is near."

Luk 21:8 And He said, "See to it that you are not misled; because many will come in My name, saying, 'I am,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not go after them.

And it's evident that when Jesus was describing the fall of Jerusalem (August 70 AD); it was these signs of its fall that were plain to see, like branches revealing buds, and knowing that summer was near. This was warning for those taking heed of Jesus' words. But the following describes the scenario of something impossible to anticipate; everyone was carrying on as if everything was absolutely normal (that is until the moment it started to rain) It's something that happened suddenly (in one day) and totally unexpected.

Mat 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 "Because the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 "Just as in those days (before the flood) they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were not understanding until the flood came and took them away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41 "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.

The false prophets (being bent on tradition) refuse to acknowledge any of this; with history having witnessed many people saying this or that person is anti-Christ, or "this must be Armageddon." It's evident from scripture that anti-Christ will have no desire for women; so this eliminates almost everyone having ever been accused.

Dan 11:37 “He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any god; but will magnify himself above all.

As far as John and the Revelations: God was having John reveal prophecy he had already (seen) and (the things which are) the things pertaining to the times of the church, Therefore, the things that will take place "after these things" is what we see by moving forward into the future.

Rev 1:19 “Therefore write the things which you have (seen), and the things which (are), and the things which will take place (after these things).

Nine times in revelations we're seeing the words "after these things." But John, after receiving the instruction and promises for those who overcome, hears the voice of the Lord (like that of a trumpet) speaking to him... What follows is astounding, in that two times (in only one verse) we are seeing the words ("After these things")

Rev 4:1 (After these things) I looked, and behold, a door was standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, (like the sound of a trumpet) speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place (after these things.”)

Upon John taking his ride into the future, what is the first thing he Sees?

Rev 4:2 Immediately John was in Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne. 3 And He who was sitting was like a jasper stone and a sardius in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, like an emerald in appearance.

After seeing the thrones of the twelve Apostles and Governors; What is not easy to miss, is a reception of lightning and thunder before what seems to be a sudden appearance of seven burning torches in front of the throne.

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God

And what's more (twelve verses ahead) John sees a Lamb looking as though it had been slain, even with Seven eyes and seven Horns which are said to be the Seven Spirits of God; but rather than they being in front of the throne, now they are with God in the middle of His throne; and these are said to have been sent out into all the earth.

Rev 5:6 I saw in the middle of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the middle of the elders, a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.

 

[Friend]

But before going any further than this, someone said, "Follow the sevens from where you first saw them." That is John delivering a blessing (from) those in heaven.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, (from) Him who is and who was and who is to come, and (from) the seven Spirits who are before His throne, Rev 1:5 and (from) Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins in His blood.

Rev 1:12-13a Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me; and turning I saw seven golden lampstands 13 and in the midst of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man.

Rev 1:20 “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and (((the seven lampstands are the seven churches)))

So here we have it: (((The Seven Lampstands are the Seven Churches)))

Strong's Number G1577 matches the Greek ἐκκλησία (ekklesia) and should always be understood as be the congregation, but never a building made made by human hands.

Rev 2:1a,c “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: (c) the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this

To avoid any distraction that resides in unsolved mysteries; we point out that the seven letters of John are addressed to the Angels. Of the seven letters the following is a good example, in that it reveals the condition of primarily the the Angel; that he is said to be dead.

Rev 3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and (the seven stars), says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

These passages are the prime examples of why (contextually) angels need to be understood as being messengers; that is, the Pastors of each individual congregation. This part of the mystery is resolved by going back to where it originated: that is the book of Daniel, and even farther back to Moses in Deuteronomy, where the basis of Holy Ones being in God's hand originated.

Dan 12:3 “Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, are like the stars forever and ever.

Deu 33:1 Now this is the blessing with which Moses the man of God blessed the sons of Israel before his death. 2 He said, "Jehovah came from Sinai, And rose before them from Seir;
He shone forth from Mount Paran, And He came from the midst of ten thousand holy ones;
in His right hand there was flashes of lightning. 3 "Indeed, He loves the peoples; all of His holy ones are in His hand, and at His feet; they are receiving of His words.

In each of seven letters we find a promise for those who overcome:

Rev 2:7 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'

Rev 2:11 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.’

Rev 2:17 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.’

Rev 2:26 ‘He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; 27 AND HE SHALL BE RULING THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, WHEN THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BEING BROKEN TO PIECES, (((just as I also have received authority from My Father))); 28 and (((I will give him the morning star))). 29 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

Rev 3:5 ‘He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Rev 3:12 ‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, (((and My new name))).

Rev 3:21 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, (((just as I also overcame))) and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Rev 3:22 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.’”

This takes everything full circle; with the Revelation of our Lord providing the simulator of the Rapture, passing what remains of us to our heavenly dwelling. (Therefore, the sounding of the voice like a trumpet) sets in motion John's ascent into the throne room; even the (future) ascent of those who will be alive on earth (as with John we are suddenly in Spirit) even (in the future) our Lord descending with the brethren who are now before the throne; all of us meeting in the clouds before ascending to the throne room. This is why there is no signs of the torches of fire, nor that of the lamb, until (shortly after) John arrives; which comprehends the reception being preceded by lightning and thunder, revealing Seven Lamps of Fire having overcome, with the Lord walking among us, ready to take our throne.

It isn't until nineteen chapters later that the Revelation pops back into what is now the Church's past; where in Revelations 22:6 the narrative shifts. But it's not until Rev 22:10 that revelation shifts back specific to the times of the church.

We inherit everything Christ is and has, starting with His eternal life: To Him who overcomes will 'eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'; 'will not be affected by the second death.’; will be given 'some of the hidden manna, and a new name'; will be given 'AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; AND HE SHALL BE RULING THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, WHEN THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BEING BROKEN TO PIECES, (((just as I also have received authority from My Father))); and (((I will give him the morning star))). He who overcomes 'will be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and His angels. ‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, (((and My new name))). ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, (((just as I also overcame))) and sat down with My Father on His throne. and (((((I will give him the morning star))))).

 

[Friend]

((((((('He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.')))))))

Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and will come to him, and make His abode with him.

1Co 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Rev 21:22 John saw no temple in the New Jerusalem, because the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Rev 21:7 “He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

"He who overcomes"

Rev 2:28 I will give him the morning star.

 

[DavidTree]

2Co 10:4-5 The weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but are divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. 5 We are destroying every speculation and every lofty thought raised up against the true knowledge of God, even taking every thought captive, to the obedience of Christ

“Paul describes the scenario that would be present had we had been “left behind”; that had it been true, anti-Christ would have been there for all of them to see. That is they would have all been seeing the immediate signs of those times. But Paul assures them that that would not be the case for them.”

2Th 2:2 You should not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

Even in the times of Paul there were those saying that the day of the Lord had come and gone. That is, false prophets in the times of Paul were already suggesting that people had been "left behind"

But Paul, seeking to comfort the Thessalonians, reminds them (in brief) of what he taught them while he was with them.

2Th 2:5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

That is, great apostasy preceding the times of Anti-Christ; (and expressly) that his revealing would be (evident) to literally everyone on earth.

2Th 2:6 And you know what restrains him now; in order that in his time, he will be revealed.

Therefore, in the times of the great false prophet there will be the tell-tale signs and great wonders taking place while the prophet is endorsing the lawlessness one, while at the same time institutionalizing the 666 inquisition.

Paul's first letter cannot be ignored; in that he was assuring the Thessalonians (two times) that they were not destined for wrath.

1Th 1:10 to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

1Th 5:9 God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining deliverance through our Lord Jesus Christ.

And it's not enough to stop here, because Paul, John, and our Lord were having much more to say. Things having already been revealed, but as they say: "Here we go again."

1Co 15:50-51 I say this brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed.

1Th 4:16-17 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

So, (((according to the false prophets))) here we have it; two passages leaving us with no scenario of there being people alive in their bodies of flesh; that is, not on the earth as we are knowing it now. And this is precisely the place where the narrative of a false prophet falls on its face, falling into their own trap. The legacy of the lie goes out, saturating the hearts of men; this being the basis for the nations (to first being weakened from within) before they start to crack and crumbed. Since empires have crumbled in the hands of the one having claims to forming them; then it's safe to say she has been the one responsible for adding or taking away words from the Book.

The end coming is dependent on truth/an unadulterated Gospel going out; as God intended it to be a testimony for all the nations to see.

Mat 24:14 “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The best strategy for Satan to remain free was the disinformation campaign he himself created, therefore (because of his followers/the false prophets going out)

Act 20:29-30 "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.

it was destined that a significantly leavened gospel would go out into the world (but thereafter we would be washed of these things)

This is to say that Satan had the tools in place (the beasts of the sea) in order to spread disinformation throughout the world; namely that the reins of this advance would be in the hands of the Great Harlot.

Mat 13:33 He spoke another parable to them, “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of flour until it was all leavened.”

The Gospel has to be more than just saying, "A man indwelt by God was impaled while bearing our sins"; (otherwise the end would have already come). Even since the times of Constantine, all of us have been beaten over the head about God being three; as if it all depended on us believing that; (But if was depending on all the nations knowing about a three gospel) the end would have already come.

Therefore, (like that of their fathers) the false prophets will avoid anything that is substantive: like Jesus' description of at least three different "days of the Lord", even admitting it was the Father, and not He, that was knowing the exact timing.

Luk 17:22 And He said to the disciples, “The day(s) will come when you will long to see one of the day(s) of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

Jhn 6:40 "This is the will of My Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, even I Myself will raise him up in/G1722 the last day(s).

Even from ancient times, it was turning out that delays would work their way into the equation.

1Th 2:18 We wanted to come to you—I, Paul, more than once—and yet Satan hindered us.

Mat 25:5 "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep.

Rev 10:6 Swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there shall no longer be any delay.

The Thess Saints were being told they had been "Left Behind" as does the Satanic LIE of 'pre-trib' rapture.

Thus the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John and the Holy Spirit and the LORD all say this = No Saint will be Left Behind.

For that DAY = His Coming = will NOT come = UNTIL the "falling away come FIRST and the man of sin is revealed"

Misquoting Scripture to support a Lie is sin FRIEND

i have to go now = PEACE in the TRUTH and repent from error will sanctify your heart soul and mind

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

My favorite Scripture that helps us see clearly the Love of God and Fear of God in the Second Coming of Christ = 1 Thess 1:10
and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.
This is the ABC's of His Second Coming

A.) "wait for His Son from Heaven" = Make a note of this = He is Coming from Heaven and we are Waiting for His Coming
B.) "raised from the dead" = Resurrection = HE is Coming with Resurrection FIRST = Salvation First = Heb 9:28
C.) "Deliverer from Coming Wrath" = The LORD is Both Salvation and Judge/Wrath upon the ungodly = God is Ambidextrous
HE has a Right hand and a Left Hand and HE uses them BOTH with EQUAL Power

Speaking of His "Right Hand" -

...as I've mentioned in past posts, the wording in 2 Thessalonians 2:7b-8a [re: when the man of sin will "be revealed"] is parallel to the wording in Lamentations 2:3-4 (see below) -


"For the mystery of lawlessness is working already; there is only the one at present restraining it, until he might be gone out of the midst."

[/"until out of the midst he BECOME"; i.e. until the one restraining at present lifts the restraint by this means: "[until] out of the midst he BECOMES" (ceasing the restraint by means of this movement)]

- 2 Thessalonians 2:7b-8a - "AND THEN [kai tote]shall that Wicked BE REVEALED..."




--"Why do You withdraw Your hand, even Your right hand? Take it out of Your bosom and destroy them." - Psalm 74:11

[i.e. this is showing His "Right Hand" allowing the bad guys to have full sway, in this particular setting / context]




--Lamentations 2:3 (in similar language to that of 2Th2:7b[8a])-

New American Standard Bible
In fierce anger He has cut off All the strength of Israel; He has drawn back His right hand From before the enemy. And He has burned in Jacob like a flaming fire Consuming round about.

King James Bible
He hath cut off in [his] fierce anger all the horn of Israel: he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy, and he burned against Jacob like a flaming fire, [which] devoureth round about.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He has cut off every horn of Israel in His burning anger and withdrawn His right hand in the presence of the enemy. He has blazed against Jacob like a flaming fire that consumes everything.

--He is allowing [i.e. lifting the RESTRAINT of] "the enemy" to HAVE AT IT (see also how this is the case also in Habakkuk 1:6,12 , speaking of how He USES [has ordained and established] the Babylonians / Chaldeans "FOR JUDGMENT" and "FOR CORRECTION"... meaning, on others... iow, this passage isn't speaking about "Babylonians / Chaldeans" being punished / judged / corrected, in this context... but being the INSTRUMENT of "judgment" and "correction" which God uses)


[note also: "flaming fire" ^ = 2Th1:7-8 "...rest with us IN THE REVELATION OF the Lord Jesus from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON those..."








[the context of Paul address in 2Th2 is his telling them not to believe anyone trying to convince them "that the day of the Lord IS PRESENT" v.2. It wasn't present; and Paul explains WHY...]

 

[DavidTree]

But before going any further than this, someone said, "Follow the sevens from where you first saw them." That is John delivering a blessing (from) those in heaven.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, (from) Him who is and who was and who is to come, and (from) the seven Spirits who are before His throne, Rev 1:5 and (from) Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins in His blood.

Rev 1:12-13a Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me; and turning I saw seven golden lampstands 13 and in the midst of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man.

Rev 1:20 “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and (((the seven lampstands are the seven churches)))

So here we have it: (((The Seven Lampstands are the Seven Churches)))

Strong's Number G1577 matches the Greek ἐκκλησία (ekklesia) and should always be understood as be the congregation, but never a building made made by human hands.

Rev 2:1a,c “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: (c) the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this

To avoid any distraction that resides in unsolved mysteries; we point out that the seven letters of John are addressed to the Angels. Of the seven letters the following is a good example, in that it reveals the condition of primarily the the Angel; that he is said to be dead.

Rev 3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and (the seven stars), says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

These passages are the prime examples of why (contextually) angels need to be understood as being messengers; that is, the Pastors of each individual congregation. This part of the mystery is resolved by going back to where it originated: that is the book of Daniel, and even farther back to Moses in Deuteronomy, where the basis of Holy Ones being in God's hand originated.

Dan 12:3 “Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, are like the stars forever and ever.

Deu 33:1 Now this is the blessing with which Moses the man of God blessed the sons of Israel before his death. 2 He said, "Jehovah came from Sinai, And rose before them from Seir;
He shone forth from Mount Paran, And He came from the midst of ten thousand holy ones;
in His right hand there was flashes of lightning. 3 "Indeed, He loves the peoples; all of His holy ones are in His hand, and at His feet; they are receiving of His words.

In each of seven letters we find a promise for those who overcome:

Rev 2:7 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'

Rev 2:11 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.’

Rev 2:17 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.’

Rev 2:26 ‘He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; 27 AND HE SHALL BE RULING THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, WHEN THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BEING BROKEN TO PIECES, (((just as I also have received authority from My Father))); 28 and (((I will give him the morning star))). 29 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

Rev 3:5 ‘He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Rev 3:12 ‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, (((and My new name))).

Rev 3:21 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, (((just as I also overcame))) and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Rev 3:22 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.’”

This takes everything full circle; with the Revelation of our Lord providing the simulator of the Rapture, passing what remains of us to our heavenly dwelling. (Therefore, the sounding of the voice like a trumpet) sets in motion John's ascent into the throne room; even the (future) ascent of those who will be alive on earth (as with John we are suddenly in Spirit) even (in the future) our Lord descending with the brethren who are now before the throne; all of us meeting in the clouds before ascending to the throne room. This is why there is no signs of the torches of fire, nor that of the lamb, until (shortly after) John arrives; which comprehends the reception being preceded by lightning and thunder, revealing Seven Lamps of Fire having overcome, with the Lord walking among us, ready to take our throne.

It isn't until nineteen chapters later that the Revelation pops back into what is now the Church's past; where in Revelations 22:6 the narrative shifts. But it's not until Rev 22:10 that revelation shifts back specific to the times of the church.

We inherit everything Christ is and has, starting with His eternal life: To Him who overcomes will 'eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'; 'will not be affected by the second death.’; will be given 'some of the hidden manna, and a new name'; will be given 'AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS; AND HE SHALL BE RULING THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, WHEN THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BEING BROKEN TO PIECES, (((just as I also have received authority from My Father))); and (((I will give him the morning star))). He who overcomes 'will be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and His angels. ‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, (((and My new name))). ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, (((just as I also overcame))) and sat down with My Father on His throne. and (((((I will give him the morning star))))).

Adding to the words of the LORD, which you do in your ending paragraph is SIN

 

[Laura798]

Good Morning Laura,

Dear Lord Jesus Christ, we thank you for today, bless our hearts in you for all that Your Word declares - Amen.

This question can be answered from Scripture and is essential for us to know the answer:

"How does Christ who is in Heaven, bring with Him the Saints who have died and there bodies are in the Graves???"

Morning David, this eas

Good Morning Laura,

Dear Lord Jesus Christ, we thank you for today, bless our hearts in you for all that Your Word declares - Amen.

This question can be answered from Scripture and is essential for us to know the answer:

"How does Christ who is in Heaven, bring with Him the Saints who have died and there bodies are in the Graves???"

hi david, this as answered already in my other posts. At workso sendingquickly!

 

[Friend]

[the context of Paul addresses in 2Th2 is his telling them not to believe anyone trying to convince them "that the day of the Lord IS PRESENT" v.2. It wasn't present; and Paul explains WHY...

Exactly!!!​

 

[DavidTree]

Morning David, this eas

hi david, this as answered already in my other posts. At workso sendingquickly!

You never answered the direct question according to Scripture.

Where does CHRIST who is in HEAVEN, bring the Saints with HIM = FROM Where???

Where are these Saints right now according to Revelation or other Scripture???