Saved by Water

[FreeGrace2]

I will say to you that it is my position that baptism has the power to save

Water baptism only has 'power' to get you all wet. Nothing more. It is a symbol.

not that one must necessarily be baptized in order to be saved.

This makes no sense with the first sentence.

I do believe that remission of sins is promised to those who are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.

It should be clear that if anyone has any doubt of whether they have the Holy Ghost, that they can remove all doubt by fulfilling the condition of a conditional promise (in Acts 2:38-39).

So you clearly reject what Paul said in Gal 3:2,5? That the Holy Spirit is received by believing the gospel??

This absolutely proves that you are totally unbiblical. Maybe even ANTI-biblical.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
I've proven your false teaching by quoting verses that prove that your ideas cannot be true.

Nothing that you have said refutes any of my position.

You just aren't paying attention. Your mind has been made up, and you don't want the facts.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Your opinion here has no bearing on the truth of the discussion.

I was not stating an opinion.

That's all you have. What you claim is not found in Scripture.

 

[justbyfaith]

FreeGrace2 said:
Sheer speculation. Paul's answer to the jailer REFUTES your claim.

Instead of dodging my comment about Paul and the jailer, why don't you face the facts?

Paul's answer to what the jailer MUST DO to be saved said NOTHING about baptism. That is a fact.

I suppose you are going to "punt" and claim Paul's answer wasn't complete.

If that were true, then the Holy Spirit wasn't being totally honest.

This doesn't support your claim that water baptism is required for salvation. You are just continuing to miss the point or dodge the facts.

It is Paul's answer that refutes you. The jailer wanted to know HOW to be saved. Or what he MUST DO to be saved.

And Paul's answer EXCLUDED water baptism. That is the fact.

That the jailer did get baptised has nothing to do with your unbiblical claim.


This is the most irrational "reason" I've ever heard. Sheer nonsense. Remember that the Bible was written for US too. We understand God's Word from what we read in God's Word.

If water baptism is required to be saved, Paul would have been NEGLIGENT to leave that out, since everyone after Paul up to today will read an answer that would be INCOMPETE. What's wrong with you?


I have no idea what you are insinuating here. Please clarify.


OK, let me be real clear here. No one is arguing AGAINST water baptism. Can you grasp this fact? Seems that you cannot.

Water baptism is commanded. We all agree with that. That's not the issue, which it seems you are simply trying to shift things, like moving the goal posts.

Water baptism is commanded, but NOT for salvation. It's a symbol. 1 Pet 3:21

My point with Acts 18:8 is that there is an argument that Paul said that he was not called to baptize people, and that therefore baptism isn't necessary for salvation; or that it has no salvational value.

The point is that there were many baptized in Corinth; so, even though Paul did not do the baptizing, the people were baptized;

And therefore the argument that baptism has no salvational value because Paul himself did not baptize many people is invalid.

The fact that Paul was not called to baptize people himself in no way precluded that he was being negligent in not baptizing them; because it should be clear that Paul's disciples did baptize; and therefore the people did get baptized, even though Paul did not personally baptize them.

And, btw, 1 Peter 3:20-21 says clearly that water baptism doth also now save us.

 

[justbyfaith]

FreeGrace2 said:
Your opinion here has no bearing on the truth of the discussion.

That's all you have. What you claim is not found in Scripture.

It is right there in Acts 2:38-39 and the other verses that I previously referenced.

 

[justbyfaith]

FreeGrace2 said:
I've proven your false teaching by quoting verses that prove that your ideas cannot be true.

You just aren't paying attention. Your mind has been made up, and you don't want the facts.

You have three finger pointing back at you (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42).

 

[justbyfaith]

Water baptism only has 'power' to get you all wet. Nothing more. It is a symbol.


This makes no sense with the first sentence.

Baptism has the power to save a person (Acts 2:38-39, Romans 6:1-4, Galatians 3:27, Colossians 2:11-15, 1 Peter 3:20-21, Ezekiel 36:25-27)

in that it is an identification with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection and is therefore a confession of Jesus before men (see Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8).

However, a person can confess Jesus apart from water baptism in Jesus' Name; while it will be more easily disputed later and water baptism is a more concrete way than simply confessing with the mouth, Jesus Christ before men. There is more of a committal in it.

So you clearly reject what Paul said in Gal 3:2,5? That the Holy Spirit is received by believing the gospel??

This absolutely proves that you are totally unbiblical. Maybe even ANTI-biblical.

So you clearly reject what it says in Acts 2:38-39. This absolutely proves that you are totally unbiblical. maybe even ANTI-biblical.

In other words, you have three fingers pointing back at you (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42).

 

[FreeGrace2]

And, btw, 1 Peter 3:20-21 says clearly that water baptism doth also now save us.

No it doesn't say that. You are misreading it.

1 Pet 3-
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

The bolded words DON'T say "saved BY water". iow they were saved FROM the water, which KILLED the rest of humanity at that time.

21 and this water (literal) symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

These bolded words speak specifically of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Peter is clearly saying that literal water symbolizes what does save; which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It is right there in Acts 2:38-39 and the other verses that I previously referenced.

Those verses do NOT apply to anyone other than the crowd Peter was talking to. I've already explained it. Open your eyes.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You have three finger pointing back at you (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42).

No I don't. I have Scripture which refutes your claims.

Even the title of this thread is WRONG. No one is "saved by water".

Read 1 pet 3:20. It doesn't say "saved by water". It says "saved through water".

iow, Noah and family were saved from drowning by going THROUGH the water, instead of everyone else on earth being drowned by the water.

So the biblical reality is "death BY water", which is what the human race experienced. Same as the Egyptian army that chased the Jews.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Baptism has the power to save a person (Acts 2:38-39, Romans 6:1-4, Galatians 3:27, Colossians 2:11-15, 1 Peter 3:20-21, Ezekiel 36:25-27)

The ONLY baptism that saves is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Water kills. Just ask the human race in Noah's day, or the entire Egyptian army that chased the Jews.

in that it is an identification with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection and is therefore a confession of Jesus before men (see Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8).

Right. You are talking about literal water being a SYMBOL only.

So you clearly reject what it says in Acts 2:38-39. This absolutely proves that you are totally unbiblical. maybe even ANTI-biblical.

I don't reject it. I understand it. It was specifically for those who had seen the miracles of Jesus yet participated in His crucifixion.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think that a case can definitely be made that if you want to be saved, the answer to the question, What must I do to be saved? is, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy household.

Now, the answer to the question of, What must I do? (if I have been pricked to the heart with conviction of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:37) is, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

 

[justbyfaith]

No it doesn't say that. You are misreading it.

1 Pet 3-
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

The bolded words DON'T say "saved BY water". iow they were saved FROM the water, which KILLED the rest of humanity at that time.

Sorry, I'm reading it in the kjv; and believe that when you depart from the kjv to another translation, you are heaping to yourself a teacher (in the translator of that version) to tell you what your itching ears want to hear.

In the kjv it says, "saved BY water"

 

[justbyfaith]

These bolded words speak specifically of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Peter is clearly saying that literal water symbolizes what does save; which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The bolded words refer specifically to baptism in water (in Jesus' Name).

 

[justbyfaith]

Those verses do NOT apply to anyone other than the crowd Peter was talking to. I've already explained it. Open your eyes.

The verses in question are precious promises that we can lay a hold of in scripture, as indicated by what it says in Acts 2:39; which states that it is a promise.

This promise is given to the people that Peter was preaching to, and to their children, and to all that were afar off (those later in history who would receive baptism in Jesus' Name).

 

[justbyfaith]

No I don't. I have Scripture which refutes your claims.

What claims?

Do you even accurately know what it is that I am claiming?

 

[justbyfaith]

I don't reject it. I understand it. It was specifically for those who had seen the miracles of Jesus yet participated in His crucifixion.

Acts 2:38-39 was given to those who were there present, and to their children, and to all that were afar off (v.39).

If you accept this, maybe you understand it now where you previously didn't.

 

[justbyfaith]

Right. You are talking about literal water being a SYMBOL only.

And, according to 1 Peter 3;21, it is the symbol of baptism that doth also now save us.

In other words, it is not the water that does the saving, but the symbol that it provides, in that we are identifying accurately with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ; and in doing so are confessing Jesus adequately before men (see Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8).

In that going under the water accurately represents burial, and coming up out of the water accurately represents resurrection.

 

[justbyfaith]

What claims?

Do you even accurately know what it is that I am claiming?

Start over.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Perhaps you are allergic to bananas?

Sorry, but I just can't take you seriously anymore. You want us to debate theories that are so off the wall and unscriptural that they border on bizarre. You want us to provide Scripture that proves that giraffes are not dogs with stretched necks.

To maintain that any rite or ritual is required for salvation is more than bizarre...

It is blasphemous and good grounds for having you banned.

My post wasn't intended as a personal attack. It was more along the lines of Galatians 5:7 "Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?"

In other areas of doctrine you seem to require scriptural references before believing something to be true. It just surprised me that you would accept Rebel77's statement without the same level of scrutiny.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby