Liberal and Conservative Christianity are both false

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Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
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Thank you.

The Jews rejected Jesus because they expected the Messiah to be a political figure who would save them from Rome.

Christians are making the same mistake thinking their savior will be a political figure who'll save them from commie liberals.
These two things do not correlate.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
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God told us thousands of years ago where this world will wind up.

It's a little naive to think we could change that, and to feign surprise at seeing it happen.
The Church changed the course of the world for 2000 years, you know why? They told the truth and via their blood the world understood no one would die like this for a false god. So, Rome became a Christian Power, and begun carrying the gospel unto the masses. Ever heard of all roads lead to Rome? Did you know the Roman Empire used Koine Greek as a common language for the masses throughout its empire? Thus Jesus came at the exact time, in the exact place he did for an exact reason, he knew that with one Empire, with a common language, with all the Roads the Empire had built to travel on, the taking of the Gospel unto the masses, via all men in the empire having a common language, would be the perfect set up.

The reason the world gets more and more coarse in the modern world is the Church has lost its way. We stand for nothing, whereas all of the Disciples, save John preached until they were killed, all of the Christians imprisoned by Rome died, many singing praises unto the Lord. We have lost our way, we have become worldly, so you say "We can't change what God foretold"..............I say God foretold what He knew would happen after the Church became weak and worldly. Big difference, God knowing a man will go to hell doesn't mean God created that man and made him choose that path.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
Legislating religious beliefs is a practice learned from the Roman church. It led to the current state religion that systematically abuses children and women. Nevertheless, religion so leveraged against the people does not further the kingdom. Of course people should not kill the unborn but what are we to expect from men who are evil? Also, to what end? To “save the country”? The fate of the nation is sealed, it will go the way of the Beast, as will all nations. (/QUOTE]

60 million unborn, slaughtered. That's the population of Canada. What do you mean to what end? Abortion is America's greatest moral sin.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
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I do have something against greed for sure. Which is present on both sides, but more so on the right.

Biblical principal says you pay your workers an honest day's wage for an honest day's work. Since saint Reagan codified income inequality, we don't have that. Executive compensation has skyrocketed (despite a decline in productivity) while worker compensation has been stagnant or declined (despite increasing productivity).

Greed is NOT a Biblical principal. The left has pretty much abandoned the Bible so there's no duh there. But the right, they've abandoned the principal while claiming to still adhere to it. That, in my book, makes them the more dangerous party.

I do have something against greed for sure. Which is present on both sides, but more so on the right.
So your against tax cuts, the cutting of federal job hindering regulations, creating jobs, creating the incentive for people to go to work, better healthcare, more competition in medicine, etc. I do not see greed. You see greed because of the small percent of the rich class.

Statistically even the low class is more wealthier than most around the world.

Biblical principal says you pay your workers an honest day's wage for an honest day's work.
True in less they are a bad servant then they should be fired. Matthew 25:26-30
If they are lazy they shall not eat 2 Thessalonians 3:10. And let us examine that passage you are referring.


Matthew 20:9-15
New International Version


9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

Verse 13 says it isn't unfair when you agree to work for that wage.

Verse 15 talks about the owner earned the money, it is his money, and he can do as he wishes with it generous or not. The workers agreed in the morning to work all day for the same wage while the workers in the evening agreed to work for the same wage.

If they didn't agree then they had the freedom to go to another landowner and seek better pay or better conditions.

But this only lives under a free market and capital driven economy based on supply and demand. If workers demand better pay and leave or boycott a company then that company has a choice to raise wages, fire employees, cut out company incentives like free gym mnerships, etc.

Since saint Reagan codified income inequality, we don't have that.
Funny same old socialist speech.

Executive compensation has skyrocketed (despite a decline in productivity) while worker compensation has been stagnant or declined (despite increasing productivity).
Despite having no data. Let us say this is true. Every economic system ran by humans will have flaws and imperfections. No system is perfect until Christ rules on Earth.

What makes a system better than others is it's foundation in morality.

A corrupt government that was built out of immoral politicians voted in will want more government control as what we see in any socialist or communist country. Where the citizens are equal but equally poor.

Immorality will be in any system but in a free market under capitalism with limited government (only for securing a free market, promoting competition, and judicially preventing crime) we see a checks and balances in immoral dealings of companies towards their workers. One company like Hobby Lobby may raise their starting pay to 18 dollars an hour while Michaels arts and crafts store pays 13 dollars an hour. Is it connected to Hobby Lobby's strong Christian foundation? Maybe.

The point is as a worker in a free market of competition guess which store will attract more employees. It could even put Michaels out of business.

But it also was Hobby Lobby doing well and choosing to raise their starting wage versus having the government promote a disastrous living wage that businesses may not be able to afford without firing employees, cutting back, or simply going out of business.

Greed is NOT a Biblical principal.
True. But being a wise steward with your money is.

The left has pretty much abandoned the Bible so there's no duh there.
Agree.

But the right, they've abandoned the principal while claiming to still adhere to it. That, in my book, makes them the more dangerous party.
Funny. Deception and ridiculous.

Let us all remember the economy and way of life under Trump's policies versus now under Biden.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
It's a bit of a challenge to articulate exactly what I want to say. I do believe as citizens we must vote our conscience and care about the decisions our government makes, however I was disturbed by how Christians have, for example raised Donald Trump to 'savior' status even though he is not a Christian. I could not bring myself to vote for the 'lesser' of two evils in the last election--my feeling is Trump has caused much animosity and hard push backs against Christians in this country--Liberals now equate Republicans with Christianity.

I met some women at a 4th of July barbecue for conservatives, who invited me to join their women's home church bible study. I asked them if they followed any particular teacher--they said Jack Hibbs of Calvary Chapel. I looked him up on Youtube and the first video I saw was a scripted 'performance' of him crying over Trump's loss--it was theatrical and completely planned out as evidence of the video screen images and text and music--I felt like I was watching a religious Twilight episode. Needless to say I didn't join the study.


Also, I called a church whose pastor had a radio program in the county where I lived as he seemed to be well versed in scripture. His mother and and father were actually the founders of the church in the 50's. In any case I contacted the church to see if someone could speak to me regarding my spiritual angst--the state of the church universal and my difficulty in finding a simple gospel centered church in my area. His mother contacted me which I thought initially was quite gracious. However, when I mentioned not having voted you would've thought I called Jesus Belzeebub--she said Trump was a Christian (no more calling a lion an elephant makes that so) and when on for a good 15 minutes telling me how wrong I was. I couldn't believe it . Trump himself said, he didn't have need to ask God for forgiveness. The bible says 'you will know them by their fruit' by his own words and actions it is impossible for me to believe he is a Christian. In any case, I hung up more discouraged than ever at the way politics has become united with the 'Christian' faith.

Again, I do believe we are responsible as citizens to vote our conscience and to fight against tyranny--but the way things are going, I see it as making things worse for the Christian cause. A Christian should never make a political leader a 'savior'--I believe this is dangerous and could lead to the deception by the antichrist.

Excuse for not editing--skipped breakfast so must have some lunch!

Yeah, some people went overboard of Trump, but they are those type of people. A lot of us Trump supporters saw the good he did for the country, that he backed Israel, was against abortion and socialism. I never said Trump was a Christian, I don't know his heart. I know people who know him personally that say he is. I never said he was or he wasn't, that's between him and God. He's as much a Christian as the current president, or the last one.
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
Yeah, some people went overboard of Trump, but they are those type of people. A lot of us Trump supporters saw the good he did for the country, that he backed Israel, was against abortion and socialism. I never said Trump was a Christian, I don't know his heart. I know people who know him personally that say he is. I never said he was or he wasn't, that's between him and God. He's as much a Christian as the current president, or the last one.
Well I don't know you, personally, Kayla, so couldn't say what you believe about him personally--the fact remains that many Christians did believe he was when obviously by his words and actions he isn't--the point of this forum is not Trump, but Christians wanting a political figure to make things right on this earth--that is what the Jews did in Jesus' time and missed their Messiah who was right in their very midst.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,256
733
113
January 6 was essentially pranking, which also turned into murder and brutality at the instigation of the Deep State operatives who were there, while BLM instigators were let off. I have the firsthand account of two reliable eye-witnesses. But the Democrats (with the help of some RINOS) made it into a witch hunt and then set up a Gulag in DC. Nothing there into making Trump a god. However it did make Mike Pence into a Judas.

And since you mention January 6, Americans have taken this major crime of election fraud too lightly, and allowed an imposter to become a tyrant from the White House. That should never have happened. The military should have arrested and prosecuted Biden and Harris on inauguration day for fraud, treason, and many other crimes.
And with that I'll respectfully end our exchange, because you can't educate the willfully ignorant.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,256
733
113
You may claim to be none. But your ideology and beliefs will put you somewhere in the spectrum.
Yes it does...

Sheep to the left of me, lemmings on the right, here I am stuck in the middle with few
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,256
733
113
The Church changed the course of the world for 2000 years, you know why? They told the truth and via their blood the world understood no one would die like this for a false god. So, Rome became a Christian Power, and begun carrying the gospel unto the masses. Ever heard of all roads lead to Rome? Did you know the Roman Empire used Koine Greek as a common language for the masses throughout its empire? Thus Jesus came at the exact time, in the exact place he did for an exact reason, he knew that with one Empire, with a common language, with all the Roads the Empire had built to travel on, the taking of the Gospel unto the masses, via all men in the empire having a common language, would be the perfect set up.

The reason the world gets more and more coarse in the modern world is the Church has lost its way. We stand for nothing, whereas all of the Disciples, save John preached until they were killed, all of the Christians imprisoned by Rome died, many singing praises unto the Lord. We have lost our way, we have become worldly, so you say "We can't change what God foretold"..............I say God foretold what He knew would happen after the Church became weak and worldly. Big difference, God knowing a man will go to hell doesn't mean God created that man and made him choose that path.
So you think we have the power to change Gods prophesies.

Good luck with that.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
113
Yes it does...

Sheep to the left of me, lemmings on the right, here I am stuck in the middle with few
May want to be part of the sheep....


Matthew 25:33-34
New International Version


33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
113
Yes it does...

Sheep to the left of me, lemmings on the right, here I am stuck in the middle with few
May want to be part of the sheep....


Matthew 25:33-34
New International Version


33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
Here is the link about Paula White, saying 'wherever she walks it becomes holy ground'--if she led Trump to Christ then he is not a Christian because a false teacher will never lead anyone to Christ--all that follow her instead are on their way to destruction:

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/07/08/paula-white-says-wherever-she-steps-becomes-holy-ground/

Just as in the flood--there were few in number who escaped--even in our so called 'churches' there are so few true believers. These are the times we are in now:

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."--2 Timothy 4:3
Don't know her but I do know where a Christian goes, God is within them, the light. If I walk into a place that has demon possessed people, I have God within me, therefore the saying "Where a Christian goes is Holy Ground". We don't leave God in church when we go, His spirit is within us. That is what she is talking about.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
Well I don't know you, personally, Kayla, so couldn't say what you believe about him personally--the fact remains that many Christians did believe he was when obviously by his words and actions he isn't--the point of this forum is not Trump, but Christians wanting a political figure to make things right on this earth--that is what the Jews did in Jesus' time and missed their Messiah who was right in their very midst.
Yes, some Christians do believe that way. I don't and didn't. I didn't follow Trump, he followed me. And I mean that by this, what his policies were, mine are. I didn't change to suit him. Had he gone from the path that I agreed with, I wouldn't have voted for him again. Again, as far as him being a Christian, he could be a baby Christian. He had many more than White talking to him. Our job is to pray for him that he becomes a mature Christian and people will surround him to help him grow.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
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Don't know her but I do know where a Christian goes, God is within them, the light. If I walk into a place that has demon possessed people, I have God within me, therefore the saying "Where a Christian goes is Holy Ground". We don't leave God in church when we go, His spirit is within us. That is what she is talking about.
We are a holy vessel as the body is a temple. God sees us as holy through Christ so I many way if we walk with Christ it is God going before us and we are simply following His holy footsteps.

Good to speak to you on the forums again. Always like reading your posts.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
Yes it does...

Sheep to the left of me, lemmings on the right, here I am stuck in the middle with few
Ok, just, I love that song. Especially Micheal Buble's version.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
We are a holy vessel as the body is a temple. God sees us as holy through Christ so I many way if we walk with Christ it is God going before us and we are simply following His holy footsteps.

Good to speak to you on the forums again. Always like reading your posts.
Thank you brother, you put it much more articulately than I did. But that is a saying evangelicals often say, we're standing on holy ground wherever we go. I appreciate you too brother. I think we have kindred spirits, I don't know if I've read a post of yours yet that I would disagree with. I just appreciate your thoughtful comments and posts. Blessings!
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
So you think we have the power to change Gods prophesies.

Good luck with that.
Those are your words, and make you seen childish, you can't admit your post was destroyed. LOL

God foreknows all things also but did not predestine us. He gives us freewill, but Him living in ALL TIME at once means he knows the choices we will make before we make them.

You are still on milk.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
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Thank you brother, you put it much more articulately than I did. But that is a saying evangelicals often say, we're standing on holy ground wherever we go. I appreciate you too brother. I think we have kindred spirits, I don't know if I've read a post of yours yet that I would disagree with. I just appreciate your thoughtful comments and posts. Blessings!
Thank you brother, you put it much more articulately than I did. But that is a saying evangelicals often say, we're standing on holy ground wherever we go.


Lol I must of been out of the loop as this was first time I heard it put that way and as you explained it I instantly had multiple scriptures come to mind. So thank you.

I appreciate you too brother. I think we have kindred spirits,


Same, you are a good friend and your presence always brings light.

I don't know if I've read a post of yours yet that I would disagree with. I just appreciate your thoughtful comments and posts. Blessings!
Also same, blessings to you as well.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,507
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FB_IMG_1639590689999.jpg

Sad truth about inflation and trying to treat everyone equally regardless of what people want or need.

FB_IMG_1639586378521.jpg
 

CronBri1992

Junior Member
Apr 14, 2018
10
4
3
US is democracy, I check the definition of democracy in dictionary is

a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

In other word people make law.

Can we expect good law produce by people?

The answer is depend

If most people real Christian than it will produce a God law
If most people non Christian than it will produce evil law for example a law to make abortion legal.

America is a Constitutional Republic