Why Mary & Joseph?

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Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#1
.
Mary and Joseph were pious Jews, but that isn't the primary reason they
were chosen to be Jesus' parents.

Jesus was on track to take David's throne (Luke 1:32-33). Men who take
that position from God have to satisfy two mandatory requirements: they
have to be biologically related to David, and legally related to David's son
Solomon. (2Sam 7:8-17, 1Kings 1:13, 1Chron 22:9-10, and Ps 89:3-4)

In a nutshell: Mary provided Jesus' biological relationship with David, while
Joseph provided his legal relationship with Solomon.

Joseph was a very key element in Jesus' status because David's throne
doesn't pass down to his royal heirs thru women.
_
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#2
.
Mary and Joseph were pious Jews, but that isn't the primary reason they
were chosen to be Jesus' parents.


Jesus was on track to take David's throne (Luke 1:32-33). Men who take
that position from God have to satisfy two mandatory requirements: they
have to be biologically related to David, and legally related to David's son
Solomon. (2Sam 7:8-17, 1Kings 1:13, 1Chron 22:9-10, and Ps 89:3-4)


In a nutshell: Mary provided Jesus' biological relationship with David, while
Joseph provided his legal relationship with Solomon.


Joseph was a very key element in Jesus' status because David's throne
doesn't pass down to his royal heirs thru women.
_
I"m curious about something: Why can't Jesus simply be the Son of David?

Matthew 1:1 NKJV - "The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham"

Above, there is no mention of Solomon. I also believe that we should recognize the importance of Abraham, here. Why is David the Son of Abraham? How and why is this relationship established? What is the basis of the relationship of David and Christ to Abraham? I believe that if we can get to the bottom of this mystery, it will help us to understand this direct relation between David and Christ.

King Solomon worshipped Chemosh and Molech. I don't think it's a good idea to relate Jesus to anyone who sacrificed children to the Devil, though I must admit, this certainly may be the case.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#4
While the legal relationship is clear, it can also be the case that Jesus is biologically Joseph's child. It is a capability that is advertised at one point in scripture.

"God can raise descendants of Abraham from rocks"

Unless there is something that directly contradicts the concept of Joseph being a biological parent, it stands as a legitimate interpretation.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#5
Unless there is something that directly contradicts the concept of Joseph being a biological parent, it stands as a legitimate interpretation.
It just so happens that there is exactly such a thing...


Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel!

Matthew 1:22-23
So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#6
.
Mary and Joseph were pious Jews, but that isn't the primary reason they
were chosen to be Jesus' parents.


Jesus was on track to take David's throne (Luke 1:32-33). Men who take
that position from God have to satisfy two mandatory requirements: they
have to be biologically related to David, and legally related to David's son
Solomon. (2Sam 7:8-17, 1Kings 1:13, 1Chron 22:9-10, and Ps 89:3-4)


In a nutshell: Mary provided Jesus' biological relationship with David, while
Joseph provided his legal relationship with Solomon.


Joseph was a very key element in Jesus' status because David's throne
doesn't pass down to his royal heirs thru women.
_
Amen David’s line is one of the foundations of Gods kingdom which came forth with Christ the seed of
Promise to Abraham and also David later

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:15-18‬ ‭


And David

“Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel:

Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,

And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the Lord telleth thee that he will make thee an house. And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.”
‭‭2 Samuel‬ ‭7:8, 10-13, 16‬ ‭KJV‬

the new testament is the promises of the Old Testament coming to pass. Those seem to be of Isaac and Solomon but the New Testament teaches us the truth that they are promises of Christ

abrahams seed which Paul explains well and how his promise applies to us of all nations

“Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

“And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and David’s seed which produce the heavenly kingdom doctrine which brought the Holy Ghost to us which Peter explained well

“Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:29-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It all Leads to Christ he is always the seed of promise even the first promised seed

“And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus became the “son of man” to fulfill that being born of a woman. And overcome Satan for mankind but he himself was stricken by suffering and death also. All the promises of the son to Be born are fulfilled by Christs birth he would overcome Satan by becoming a son of man

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same;

that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the serpent brought mankind death in those moments in Eden but Jesus came forth and crushed his head though he suffered and died he overcame in death and rose up to life offering man life tether then death
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#8
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:15-18‬ ‭
Yes, and to the point that I am failing to establish is this . . . the Seed is that of incorruptible seed, not physical seed.

After all, and unless I am mistaken, the "Seed" of David did not always rule the throne of independent Judah. A woman king reigned after David, king Atholiah. Isn't this a problem for the continual throneship of David? I'm not an expert, but this seems to be a problem (to me).

Therefore, the Seed of David, the same Seed that Abraham possessed (remember Matt 1:1) is the Seed of Incorruption.

1 Peter 1:23 KJV - "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever."

This Holy Seed is the link between Abraham, David, and Christ.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#9
I should add that king Atholiah took the kingship by murder . . . destroying the entire Royal family. And no, Atholiah is not mentioned in 1 Chron 03:11.
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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#10
I"m curious about something: Why can't Jesus simply be the Son of David?
"Son of David" as applied to Christ means (a) descendant of David, and (b) Messiah, who is also Shiloh, from the tribe of Judah. There were many generations between David and Christ (over a period of 1,000 years).
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#11
"Son of David" as applied to Christ means (a) descendant of David, and (b) Messiah, who is also Shiloh, from the tribe of Judah. There were many generations between David and Christ (over a period of 1,000 years).
Yes, of course. So why is it that no one refers to themselves as the Son of Abraham other than the actual son's of Abraham and Jesus? Jesus is the only one who claims this position. Sure, some referenced themselves as "descendants" of Abraham, but not "sons." Why?

Luke 3:8 NLT - "Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God. Don't just say to each other, 'We're safe, for we are descendants of Abraham.' That means nothing, for I tell you, God can create children of Abraham from these very stones."

Above, we note two things:

There are no "sons" of Abraham. And two, being descendants of Abraham means "nothing."

Again, the "Church" is completely missing something very, very critical, here. Pft . . . even an 80-year-old pastor was shocked when I showed him Matthew 1:1. The "church" is as blind as a bat.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#12
egally related to David's son
Solomon. (2Sam 7:8-17, 1Kings 1:13, 1Chron 22:9-10, and Ps 89:3-4)
these passages don't strictly say the Messiah has to be 'legally related to Solomon'
they say the throne of Solomon's kingdom, which is equivocated with David's throne & kingdom there in 2 Samuel, that throne and that kingdom will be established forever.

seeing that God equivocates the throne & kingdom of Solomon with the throne & kingdom of David, being descended from David is sufficient 'legal descendency' to satisfy both 'son of David' and 'occupying the throne of David'

but what is 'the throne of the kingdom of David' -- what does God mean when He uses these phrases? why does God put David & Solomon's kingship together with the phrase 'throne of the kingdom' in Messianic prophecy?

both David & Solomon were anointed king by the prophet of the LORD while another was king of Israel. in David's case, he was annointed by Samuel while Saul, who had also been annointed by Samuel, was king. in Solomon's he was annointed by Zadok the priest of the LORD while Adonijah had usurped the kingship ((1 Kings 1)).
so the One who is established on the throne of the kingdom of David/Solomon is likewise an Anointed One who supplants a disgraced king who had once been anointed, through the tesimony of a prophet, and an Anointed One who supplants a false king who had presumed the throne with a false prophet & a treacherous military leader.

and Christ, the Messiah, The Annointed One - He comes twice. in His first appearing, He is revealed as the second Adam, assuming federal headship over mankind, which had been the fist man Adam's: the man who fell, was supplanted by The Son of Man who rose. in His second appearing He will destroy the beast and the false prophet, and destroy his armies. and will He not sit on 'the throne of His kingdom' at that time?
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#13
Nicely instructed @posthuman

John 8:58 NLT - "Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I AM!"

The above passage is also a clue/hint to the Geneology of Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham. There is a reason for Christ to point to Abraham and I submit to this forum that it is because of the Spiritual Circumcision instituted in the lives of Abraham and Sarah (Genesis chapter 17). This is why we are to have the same Faith that Abraham had (or, was given).

Romans 2:28-29 NLT - "For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. 29 No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."

Romans 4:12 NLT - "And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised."

This is the "Throneship." It is Spiritual Circumcision that causes a person to become reborn of Incorruptible Seed. And it is THIS seed that is required to be of the True Vine.
 

Blik

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Dec 6, 2016
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#14
. Joseph was a very key element in Jesus' status because David's throne
doesn't pass down to his royal heirs thru women.
_
There are women and gentiles listed in the genealogy of Christ, I think that is something we should be aware of.

At a time when women were not normally listed in genealogies, four were listed in the genealogy of Christ and most were rather shady characters or gentiles. Tamar, Rahab, Ruth, and Bathsheba were listed.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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#15
I stand corrected. Paul himself referred to many as Son's of Abraham.

Acts 13:26 NKJV - "Men and brethren, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among you who fear God, to you the word of this salvation has been sent."

Acts 13:26 NLT - "Brothers--you sons of Abraham, and also you God-fearing Gentiles--this message of salvation has been sent to us!"
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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#16
So why is it that no one refers to themselves as the Son of Abraham other than the actual son's of Abraham and Jesus?
"Son" simply means "descendant". And only Christ has the unique position of being (1) Son of God, (2) Son of Abraham, and (3) Son of David. However, Christ is the only begotten Son of God, descended from the line of Abraham through David. And both Solomon and Nathan are in the genealogy of Christ. Other Jews are called "children of Abraham". So what we see for Christ is this (with only the key figures):

ADAM-->SETH-->NOAH-->SHEM-->EBER-->ABRAHAM-->ISAAC-->JACOB-->JUDAH-->DAVID

Christ is called the "Seed" of Abraham in the Abrahamic Covenant. But there are others "seeds" also. "Seed" here means descendant.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#17
"Son" simply means "descendant". And only Christ has the unique position of being (1) Son of God, (2) Son of Abraham, and (3) Son of David. However, Christ is the only begotten Son of God, descended from the line of Abraham through David. And both Solomon and Nathan are in the genealogy of Christ. Other Jews are called "children of Abraham". So what we see for Christ is this (with only the key figures):

ADAM-->SETH-->NOAH-->SHEM-->EBER-->ABRAHAM-->ISAAC-->JACOB-->JUDAH-->DAVID

Christ is called the "Seed" of Abraham in the Abrahamic Covenant. But there are others "seeds" also. "Seed" here means descendant.
Thank you, Nehemiah. I admit that I am studying for an exam and am not conveying myself properly.

What you are providing are all rudimentary ideas where as I am trying to discuss Spiritual matters. For example, the Geneology of Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham, relates to the below:

1 Samuel 18:1 KJV - "And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul."

2 Kings 2:9-10, 15 NKJV - "And so it was, when they had crossed over, that Elijah said to Elisha, "Ask! What may I do for you, before I am taken away from you?" Elisha said, "Please let a double portion of your spirit be upon me." 10 So he said, "You have asked a hard thing. [Nevertheless], if you see me [when I am] taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if not, it shall not be [so]." ... 15 Now when the sons of the prophets who [were] from Jericho saw him, they said, "The spirit of Elijah rests on Elisha." And they came to meet him, and bowed to the ground before him.

Matthew 17:10-13 NKJV - "And His disciples asked Him, saying, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" Jesus answered and said to them, "Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. "But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands." Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist."

Does this help you to understand where I am "coming from?"

This genealogy of Christ is deeper than just a list of three names, Abraham, David, and Christ. It is much, much deeper than that. The genealogy of Christ is beyond mere flesh and blood.
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#18
.
Rom 1:1-3 . . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh

The Greek word translated "seed" in that passage is sperma (sper'-mah)
which is a bit ambiguous because it can refer to spiritual posterity as well as
to biological posterity; for example:

Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed.

That seed is obviously spiritual posterity; whereas David's is biological
because it's "according to the flesh" i.e. his physical human body.

Seeing as Jesus' dad Joseph played no role in his son's conception, and his
wife was a virgin at the time, then Jesus' biological connection to David
defaults thru his mother.
_
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
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#19
.
Rom 1:1-3 . . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh


The Greek word translated "seed" in that passage is sperma (sper'-mah)
which is a bit ambiguous because it can refer to spiritual posterity as well as
to biological posterity; for example:


Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed.

That seed is obviously spiritual posterity; whereas David's is biological
because it's "according to the flesh" i.e. his physical human body.


Seeing as Jesus' dad Joseph played no role in his son's conception, and his
wife was a virgin at the time, then Jesus' biological connection to David
defaults thru his mother.
_
I just ran across the below verse that I had clearly forgotten about . . . and it seems most conclusive. Joseph is also referred to as a Son of David. What do you think of this? The lineage is apparently coming through Joseph . . . not Mary.

Matthew 1:20 KJV - "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."