The relationship between the Remission of Sins, the Blood of Jesus, and receiving the Holy Ghost
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I love this passage set below . . . it provides so much perspective on the Bible as a whole:
Romans 3:25-26 NLT - 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
Romans 3:25-26 NLT - 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
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What frustrates me about Bible discussions is that it doesn't seem that any two people are able to share the exact same understanding. I don't blame individual people for this, for the example of "choice" is a classic reason for why. There are probably more passages that indicate that we are to make a choice, but there are also many passages that show that God is in control of our thinking, choosing, and doing. So again, I don't "blame" anyone for siding with choice and "freewill."
John 15:16 NKJV - "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."
2 Peter 1:1 NET - "From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours."
I used to believe as you believe today . . . thus I think I ascertain the position that you stand within (because of that). What caused me to lean to the passages that shows that God chose us are the ones that show and prove His Almighty Power. It is Power that I have found to be the single most important concept that we are to grasp about the Bible and His Word. It is God's Power that fulfills His Plan. I know, for sure, that if I had any power in my life, I would have never "chosen" God. I would continue to seek sexual relationships with many, many women. But it seems to be the same Power of God that has changed and continues to change my thinking about such relationships, for the idea of a sexual relationship is becoming more and more ridiculous, almost as mundane as using a dipstick to check the level of motoroil. Completely against the nature of my flesh, I continue to be more and more Transformed . . . and now to the degree that even if the Lord were to grant me a wife, I'm not sure that I would have the interest to serve her in her rightful way.
And so while I love to discuss the Bible . . . more than anything else in this life, I have come to give up on the idea of changing anyone's way of thinking. I see that it is something that I cannot do. No matter how clear the Scriptures are to me, and regardless of how I have changed 100% in my belief system, I have only been able to get one person to see this side of Scripture that I now see. The rest? They have nothing to do with me . . . which is anti-Christian. My ears are open to learning, and in fact, I am eager to hear the ideas of others. Other ideas do not anger me, but I find that opposing "Christians" are angered with me. So, I rest within my changed, Transformed Heart and life and trust that I have been placed upon and within the right and Holy path.
Peace to you, good sir. My hope is that if anything, we might share mutual peace though we do not share the same belief. Peace between us all is so critical . . . it is my hearts desire.
John 15:16 NKJV - "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."
2 Peter 1:1 NET - "From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours."
I used to believe as you believe today . . . thus I think I ascertain the position that you stand within (because of that). What caused me to lean to the passages that shows that God chose us are the ones that show and prove His Almighty Power. It is Power that I have found to be the single most important concept that we are to grasp about the Bible and His Word. It is God's Power that fulfills His Plan. I know, for sure, that if I had any power in my life, I would have never "chosen" God. I would continue to seek sexual relationships with many, many women. But it seems to be the same Power of God that has changed and continues to change my thinking about such relationships, for the idea of a sexual relationship is becoming more and more ridiculous, almost as mundane as using a dipstick to check the level of motoroil. Completely against the nature of my flesh, I continue to be more and more Transformed . . . and now to the degree that even if the Lord were to grant me a wife, I'm not sure that I would have the interest to serve her in her rightful way.
And so while I love to discuss the Bible . . . more than anything else in this life, I have come to give up on the idea of changing anyone's way of thinking. I see that it is something that I cannot do. No matter how clear the Scriptures are to me, and regardless of how I have changed 100% in my belief system, I have only been able to get one person to see this side of Scripture that I now see. The rest? They have nothing to do with me . . . which is anti-Christian. My ears are open to learning, and in fact, I am eager to hear the ideas of others. Other ideas do not anger me, but I find that opposing "Christians" are angered with me. So, I rest within my changed, Transformed Heart and life and trust that I have been placed upon and within the right and Holy path.
Peace to you, good sir. My hope is that if anything, we might share mutual peace though we do not share the same belief. Peace between us all is so critical . . . it is my hearts desire.
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I understand your frustration my friend. I have been in many debates and have very rarely been able to get opposing views to change. Discussing the bible requires the heart of a student not a teacher one must be flexible in their way of thinking and able to learn from others. We have to be able to consider that we may be wrong or else if the truth is presented to us we will remain blind to it.
Not everyone sees the same way but if one goes into a debate or discussion they have to do so with the right heart, everyone goes in with their own views and beliefs set in stone this is a mistake because God often times speaks through others but if his voice cannot penetrate our stone hearts what is the point? I think we need more students and less teachers and if we have teachers they need to have the heart of a student.
Not everyone sees the same way but if one goes into a debate or discussion they have to do so with the right heart, everyone goes in with their own views and beliefs set in stone this is a mistake because God often times speaks through others but if his voice cannot penetrate our stone hearts what is the point? I think we need more students and less teachers and if we have teachers they need to have the heart of a student.
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Goosebumps. I couldn't have written your words any better. Years ago, after my Damascus-Road-like experience, I realized that I needed to abandon everything any human being ever taught me, and decided to not only read the Bible but collect and organize Scripture in an Excel spreadsheet. I felt the Power of God in such a way, that if I had felt more, and at minimum, my physical body would have been altered . . . melted flesh in the very least, up to and including death. This Powerful Peace and Love was so astonishing that I realized I had absolutely no clue as to the real depth of the Bible. And although I considered myself to be a "master" of certain Biblical concepts . . . I was completely stupid and ignorant about them. I had no True understanding of why I believed what I believed and what I believed. Yes, I could have explained to you what I believed and why . . . but my answers were always about as deep and cloudy as a mud puddle. However, I didn't realize that my beliefs were shallow and cloudy.
I have scoured the entire Bible, literally highlighting not only each word but each piece of punctuation. I used 7 or 8 different colored highlighters so that I could separate each thought and idea. Some verses would have perhaps 6 or 7 different colors. I did my absolute best to not move on to the next thought or concept until I felt that I had a good understanding of what I was reading. 1,490 pages of highlighted bible. It was an amazing experience . . . and to open that Bible and see the beautiful colors that it holds . . . it is an amazing thing to look at.
Why did I do these things? Because my heart was open to the Truth and closed to my old belief system. I will never close the door to Understanding, Knowledge, and Wisdom. For, I am a mere human being and realize that there are no two people that have the exact same set of beliefs regarding the Bible. I now realize that I will never meet anyone that I agree with perfectly. And more, it is ridiculous to think that I ever will. Again, we are only human beings. And even though a small handful of us are actually being taught and led by the Spirit, we still are just human beings . . . and possess errors. To this day, I continue to learn of Biblical principles, and that means that I occasionally change my views and opinions. Yes, it is rare that my views change, but that is because of thousands of hours of collecting and organizing Scripture into an Excel spreadsheet where I not only paste the Scripture itself, but offer up my meager commentary so that I can log my thoughts. It is by logging my thoughts that I am 1) able to remember them, but 2) realize any potential errors and thus fix them.
There is nothing more important to me than I have a proper, balanced understanding of God's Holy Word. For, to be without understanding means that we live within a Biblical fairytale, and that is a most dangerous place to be (as it may very well be an indicator of a hellish destination). Again, having felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God, this has caused me to TOTALLY wake up and realize that I must know Him the way HE desires that we would know HIM. Therefore, I don't want to be right, I want to GET THINGS RIGHT. I want to know not the things that make me right according to my own ideas, but I want to get things right so that when I stand before the Lord . . . he will look at me and say . . .
Matthew 25:21 NLT - "The master was full of praise. 'Well done, my good and faithful servant. You have been faithful in handling this small amount, so now I will give you many more responsibilities. Let's celebrate together!"
I have scoured the entire Bible, literally highlighting not only each word but each piece of punctuation. I used 7 or 8 different colored highlighters so that I could separate each thought and idea. Some verses would have perhaps 6 or 7 different colors. I did my absolute best to not move on to the next thought or concept until I felt that I had a good understanding of what I was reading. 1,490 pages of highlighted bible. It was an amazing experience . . . and to open that Bible and see the beautiful colors that it holds . . . it is an amazing thing to look at.
Why did I do these things? Because my heart was open to the Truth and closed to my old belief system. I will never close the door to Understanding, Knowledge, and Wisdom. For, I am a mere human being and realize that there are no two people that have the exact same set of beliefs regarding the Bible. I now realize that I will never meet anyone that I agree with perfectly. And more, it is ridiculous to think that I ever will. Again, we are only human beings. And even though a small handful of us are actually being taught and led by the Spirit, we still are just human beings . . . and possess errors. To this day, I continue to learn of Biblical principles, and that means that I occasionally change my views and opinions. Yes, it is rare that my views change, but that is because of thousands of hours of collecting and organizing Scripture into an Excel spreadsheet where I not only paste the Scripture itself, but offer up my meager commentary so that I can log my thoughts. It is by logging my thoughts that I am 1) able to remember them, but 2) realize any potential errors and thus fix them.
There is nothing more important to me than I have a proper, balanced understanding of God's Holy Word. For, to be without understanding means that we live within a Biblical fairytale, and that is a most dangerous place to be (as it may very well be an indicator of a hellish destination). Again, having felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God, this has caused me to TOTALLY wake up and realize that I must know Him the way HE desires that we would know HIM. Therefore, I don't want to be right, I want to GET THINGS RIGHT. I want to know not the things that make me right according to my own ideas, but I want to get things right so that when I stand before the Lord . . . he will look at me and say . . .
Matthew 25:21 NLT - "The master was full of praise. 'Well done, my good and faithful servant. You have been faithful in handling this small amount, so now I will give you many more responsibilities. Let's celebrate together!"
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I know just what you mean when you say had you felt him in any more degree your body would have perished I experienced the very same thing when I experienced his lovfe for the first time. I remember I went into my room to lay down be still and just know him when I felt a presece in my room I just continued to my bed and laid down no sooner had I done this my body lost all it's strength but I was enveloped in his arms. His love was pouring into me to such an extent my body couldn't take it yet I knew it was only a drop i begged him to take my life so I could remain in his arms forever but he said he needed me to stay strong for him.
That love is so deep and rich so intensely strong that only a drop was to much for me to handle, just imagine how much deeper his love really goes when we will be with him forever.
I like and am impressed with your devotion for his word his word is like an onion or the earths crust it has many layers and who knows how many layer upon layers there really is but not many see past the outer layer it requires one to be in deep devotion with him a great intimacy and it requires that one learns his voice very well because he is speaking all the time we just don't listen.
It can be a random verse we come across or a post by another person but everyone seems to think they know his voice yet see how divided we are on various subjects.
This has always troubled me God speaks one truth not many different ones so if we are so divided do we really know his voice?
No one will ever have the whole truth either I am sure there are views I hold that are not truth but I do not allow myself to assume I am right. Some have told me I have the gift of teaching and perhaps this is true or perhaps it isn't but the best teachers are those who have the heart of a student and a good teachers words are able to speak volume to others their words are more than just scholar sounding well written and scriptural it takes a voice that perices through others one who can ignite that flame and create that spark in others hearts.
I hope to be that kind of person one day not to be a teacher but because there is no greater joy to me than to see him move and stirr others hearts.
Many have fallen asleep they have fogotten their first love there is no life in their words anymore and they spend their days in debates able to hold their own but change no ones heart the spirit doesn't flow through their lips and thus does not penetrate the walls of others. Debating can be good for growth and can be very beneficial but when that debate just becomes endless arguing that debate has lost it's value
That love is so deep and rich so intensely strong that only a drop was to much for me to handle, just imagine how much deeper his love really goes when we will be with him forever.
I like and am impressed with your devotion for his word his word is like an onion or the earths crust it has many layers and who knows how many layer upon layers there really is but not many see past the outer layer it requires one to be in deep devotion with him a great intimacy and it requires that one learns his voice very well because he is speaking all the time we just don't listen.
It can be a random verse we come across or a post by another person but everyone seems to think they know his voice yet see how divided we are on various subjects.
This has always troubled me God speaks one truth not many different ones so if we are so divided do we really know his voice?
No one will ever have the whole truth either I am sure there are views I hold that are not truth but I do not allow myself to assume I am right. Some have told me I have the gift of teaching and perhaps this is true or perhaps it isn't but the best teachers are those who have the heart of a student and a good teachers words are able to speak volume to others their words are more than just scholar sounding well written and scriptural it takes a voice that perices through others one who can ignite that flame and create that spark in others hearts.
I hope to be that kind of person one day not to be a teacher but because there is no greater joy to me than to see him move and stirr others hearts.
Many have fallen asleep they have fogotten their first love there is no life in their words anymore and they spend their days in debates able to hold their own but change no ones heart the spirit doesn't flow through their lips and thus does not penetrate the walls of others. Debating can be good for growth and can be very beneficial but when that debate just becomes endless arguing that debate has lost it's value
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Holy cow. You are the ONLY person to have experienced this same thing that I've experienced (so far). Exactly! I was encapsulated by the Spirit just as an olive is encapsulated by liquid. I was protected! A bomb could have exploded next to me . . . I would have been just fine. And you're so right! I also instantly realized that this was only the smallest of portions that I could endure without being physically altered. It isn't that this Peace and Love is bad in any way, it's just that it is SO good that human flesh cannot endure it. No one understands what I have been saying for years, and in fact, my own "christian" family thinks I'm nuts because they haven't felt this Power. And, they are pastors, missionaries, elders, etc. High-level "christian" experience, yet they hate me and think that I've lost it. Sucks to be them!
I will NEVER be the same! I will never go back to my old life. Impossible! How could I ever go back to a life of strip clubs, sex addiction, etc when I know FOR SURE that I am alive and breathing simply because He allows it? God found you on that bed . . . He knew exactly where you were, and you could have been anywhere. God knows where you are. He knows what you think and why you're thinking as you do. Nothing you do is outside of His Almighty awareness. Nothing. Even when I sin, I do nothing outside of His Presence, for I cannot escape Him.
We are forever changed, and after experiencing this Love, how could we ever even think about going back to having Satan as our Father? People simply do not understand that once a person is gifted the True Holy Spirit, there is no turning back. They think that we can just flip flop back and forth, but this isn't the case. You understand what it means to be Chosen. You understand what it means to be Purchased. You understand the importance of considering yourself a Slave to Christ. You, Blain, are extremely fortunate, for just as you realized that this Power was only a drop, you also realized many, many more things. So much of life was explained to you, but you wouldn't know it until you came upon those life circumstances to realize that you had been taught! The Power of God reveals things that you haven't even realized.
Unbelievable . . . now, onto the rest of your message. lol
I will NEVER be the same! I will never go back to my old life. Impossible! How could I ever go back to a life of strip clubs, sex addiction, etc when I know FOR SURE that I am alive and breathing simply because He allows it? God found you on that bed . . . He knew exactly where you were, and you could have been anywhere. God knows where you are. He knows what you think and why you're thinking as you do. Nothing you do is outside of His Almighty awareness. Nothing. Even when I sin, I do nothing outside of His Presence, for I cannot escape Him.
We are forever changed, and after experiencing this Love, how could we ever even think about going back to having Satan as our Father? People simply do not understand that once a person is gifted the True Holy Spirit, there is no turning back. They think that we can just flip flop back and forth, but this isn't the case. You understand what it means to be Chosen. You understand what it means to be Purchased. You understand the importance of considering yourself a Slave to Christ. You, Blain, are extremely fortunate, for just as you realized that this Power was only a drop, you also realized many, many more things. So much of life was explained to you, but you wouldn't know it until you came upon those life circumstances to realize that you had been taught! The Power of God reveals things that you haven't even realized.
Unbelievable . . . now, onto the rest of your message. lol
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Seek the Circumcision of Christ, Folks. It will free you from the Curse, the Law of Sin and Death.
Romans 8:2 KJV - "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
@Nehemiah6 - You may still be under this Curse, but I am not.
Romans 8:2 KJV - "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
@Nehemiah6 - You may still be under this Curse, but I am not.
Yes what we experienced was only a fraction of a fraction. To put it in perspective did you know there are black holes that are so massive they are almost unexplainable? Try comparing an elephant to a grain of rice and that is how big they are compared to our sun.
In the same way our understanding of him and how big and deep he really is could also be compared to a grain of rice and an elephant . Every aspect of him his power his love his mercy his beauty his glory all of it and we cannot even put into words how deep he really is.
I have not met anyone else who has experienced him in this way either I told my family but they like yours thought I was crazy but I am just honored he chose to reveal himself to me how many can truly say they have tasted his love and wonder like that? I have been chasing after his heart ever since that day I want to know him more and more I want to search the vast ocean that is his heart and experience him for myself.
My faith is all about that hunger that deep longing and thirst for him and it is like this because I got a taste of him on that day
In the same way our understanding of him and how big and deep he really is could also be compared to a grain of rice and an elephant . Every aspect of him his power his love his mercy his beauty his glory all of it and we cannot even put into words how deep he really is.
I have not met anyone else who has experienced him in this way either I told my family but they like yours thought I was crazy but I am just honored he chose to reveal himself to me how many can truly say they have tasted his love and wonder like that? I have been chasing after his heart ever since that day I want to know him more and more I want to search the vast ocean that is his heart and experience him for myself.
My faith is all about that hunger that deep longing and thirst for him and it is like this because I got a taste of him on that day
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My appreciation to all who have read and commented so far. And my apologies for not replying yet, if anyone was wanting me to reply directly to something they said. I'm going to try to post specifically on the topic of the OP for now, lest I get distracted. Feel free to continue the friendly discussions as seems appropriate.
Also, if a direct reply or clarification is desired, feel free to include a quote and/or an @KelbyofGod WITH a specific question and I'll try to avoid delay in replying.
Also, @Blain I like the overall concept of Post #42 except that there doesn't have to be (actually isn't) a dichotomy (contradiction/disagreement) between teaching and learning. When I first looked up "Apt to teach" I thought it meant "inclined towards teaching" but wherever I looked it up the word "apt" was defined as "taught"...which meant to me that it has to be a simultaneous expectation to learn if there is any hope of teaching. But that's not the same as saying a person has to capitulate or compromise in the face of wrong thinking.
I classify my beliefs and doctrines (basically) into two categories:
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Also, if a direct reply or clarification is desired, feel free to include a quote and/or an @KelbyofGod WITH a specific question and I'll try to avoid delay in replying.
Also, @Blain I like the overall concept of Post #42 except that there doesn't have to be (actually isn't) a dichotomy (contradiction/disagreement) between teaching and learning. When I first looked up "Apt to teach" I thought it meant "inclined towards teaching" but wherever I looked it up the word "apt" was defined as "taught"...which meant to me that it has to be a simultaneous expectation to learn if there is any hope of teaching. But that's not the same as saying a person has to capitulate or compromise in the face of wrong thinking.
I classify my beliefs and doctrines (basically) into two categories:
- Things I think, believe, or have been taught (especially in church). <--that's the bigger list (Everyone has this category)
- Things I have taken to prayer UNTIL God reveals the clear (and often simple) truth of the matter EVEN IF it flies in the face of Category 1 <-- This is the smaller list, but is much more trustworthy. (Not everyone has this category, and most that do have few items within it)
- Knowing how to pray in a way that actually produces results (causes an effect, makes things happen, allows God to provide the answers... EFFECTUAL prayer... as opposed to powerless prayer where the person doesn't know if they'll get an answer or not... blechh!).
- Knowing the voice of God (as opposed to any other voice such as Self, Devils, Preachers, Preference)
- Must be shown in scripture. And for me that usually means I'll require he show it to me in PRACTICAL terms, not just THEORETICAL ( theoretical as meaning "relying on correct interpretation of particular words or doctrines" . Sometimes this essential might be postponed for awhile because of Essential #2. (I can hear his voice and believe, often before I can grasp the depth of what he's saying and/or prove it in scriptures. This requires trust. It's what Jesus was requiring of Peter when he required Peter to submit to having his feet washed BEFORE he would be given the understanding) When God has truly spoken something in the ear, he'll support it as you begin to teach it upon the housetops. Just don't blame him if you "thought it was God" when it wasn't.... just take it back to prayer until he shows you the error.
- And I PREFER (and often successfully request) that he show it to me so clearly that it cannot be disproven as I then go to teach it to others. (That's what made this OP is so powerful even though it FLIES IN THE FACE of common teaching about salvation).
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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