Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
It is impossible for the elect to be decieved. Now or then.
That is rather naive.

The Bible says that Satan leads "the whole world astray" and "deceives the whole world".

Neither John nor Paul gave any exceptions.

If "the elect" cannot be deceived, why are there so many DIFFERENT theologies among evangelicals? There should be total unity, yet we are far from that.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
Rev 13:10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.​

Isa 22:14 But the LORD of hosts revealed Himself to me, “Surely this iniquity shall not be forgiven you Until you die,” says the Lord GOD of hosts.​

Num 16:46-47 Moses said to Aaron, "Take your censer and put in it fire from the altar, and lay incense on it; then bring it quickly to the congregation and make atonement for them, for wrath has gone forth from the LORD, the plague has begun!" 47 Then Aaron took it as Moses had spoken, and ran into the midst of the assembly, for behold, the plague had begun among the people. So he put on the incense and made atonement for the people.

Atonement isn't for people who are perfect

Rev 8:5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with the fire of the altar, and threw it to the earth; and there followed peals of thunder and sounds and flashes of lightning and an earthquake.​
Another point: Undoubtedly the armies of the antichrist will already have taken the mark of the beast. They are unredeemable. Certainly the "mark" would be a requirement to be in that army to begin with...
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
I was thinking about the rapture earlier and realized the rapture is a world wide event. The coming on horses is local to israel.

Hmmmmmm.

Food for thought. Lets say the rapture starts on the east coast of canada ,USA, and south america. Allow 1 hour or so for that gathering as angels sound the warning to those waiting for their groom Jesus. Next the angels start with the next time zone to the West. That would take another hour or so. Next the angels Warren those waiting for cheese in the western or Pacific time zone. That should take another hour or two to gather those millions of people. Next the Angels proceeded to Warn those in Alaska and Hawaii. That might take 30 minutes or an hour. And so on across the entire planet. Each portion of the globe experiencing the Rapture all around midnight. I am not saying that is exactly how it happens just wondering if that viewpoint could be correct.

But...to be sure..... It blows a huge hole in the theory of postrib rapture.
I'm with you. Jesus first comes for his saints and then comes again with his saints. Any other scenario and the logistics are absurd.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
Charlie24 said:
"​

Every account is different because t; making it appear as though Israel/Jerusalem was destroyed Rather than Vatican City / Headquarters / Babylon the Great "who sits on many waters". The "Iron and the clay"

The Jews don't have a history of mingling with merchant military/Iron looters.

The Iron will Rise from the dead/7th beast "who's wound is healed"/future: But the Harlot was ""destined to be secure"" and survived the demise of all her beasts; even She has one more great beasty back ride.

But only until the 7th vial/bowl of Wrath.

"the RCC Switched the Six Seal and 6th Trumpet"

You would have to provide supporting manuscript evidence to validate your claim. It all of my years I've never heard of this being a problem. Furthermore, In terms of flow and logic, the sixth trumpet follows the fifth trumpet perfectly IMO. I really don't see any problem there.
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
It's not. The lake of fire is not the Earth. It is an unknown distance away from both heaven and Earth, Revelation 20:11.
For what it is worth...I believe the sun is/will be the hell.
Of all the comments in scriptures about moon, space, heavens, etc...not a note about the sun other than being darkened at a point.

The Bible says the earth will be cleansed with fire....suggesting a new earth for eternity.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
You mean like God saying it doesn't prove it? Tat odd, I always felt like Gods own words proved these things out. I left this off for a BRIEF POST so you can see it much easier. SHORT AND SWEET.

Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts(Jerusalem/Earthquake/Jesus lands), and the cities of the nations fell (Jesus DEFEATS the Nations/Armageddon): and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto HER the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

So, who is God (Almighty God Himself) calling Babylon the Great? Who us the HER in the verse who gets this Fierce and Great Wrath? Lets look up to Vial #6, that should tell us.

Rev. 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So, the HER (Babylon) which God clearly describes is FORETOLD in Vial #6, and it is the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD, So, Babylon and The Harlot are not one and the same Entity, Babylon is World Governance, and she KILLS OFF the Harlot as seen in Rev 17:16, thus the Harlot who has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs on her hands can only be False Religion, not False Governance who is Babylon, the RCC was not around before the Cross, and not for 400 years after Jesus died. So, how can the RCC have the blood of the Saints (Jewish Saints) AND the Martyrs of Jesus on her hands? She can't. Harlotry means filthy fornication. It is ALL False Religion of All Time.

And you know what the biggest clue is that no one stops to ponder? Why, after ridding the back of these 6 Beasts for eons does the Last Beast all of the sudden kill of the Harlot? Well, what does the Last Beast do in his life that would require this? He requires ALL MEN to worship the Image of the Beast, thus there is no place for Jupiter or Zeus, or Islam, or Buddhism, or Hinduism, no you can understand why he kills 1/4 on mankind, they refs to worship him as their god. Thus the 10 Kings (Europe) KILL OFF these Harlot Religions, she is thus Judged in Rev. 17.
It lists her factories in one location that are burning as is witnessed by sailors.
Islam produces nothing. Jupiter and zeus are no longer in the picture.

So, no, you need a massive adjustment in that scenario you painted.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
For what it is worth...I believe the sun is/will be the hell.
Of all the comments in scriptures about moon, space, heavens, etc...not a note about the sun other than being darkened at a point.

The Bible says the earth will be cleansed with fire....suggesting a new earth for eternity.
i can see that.

However it can not be.
1) the lof was/is created for the devil and hos angels.
2) in the mew Jerusalem there is no sun because it says the father and son illuminate it
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
i can see that.

However it can not be.
1) the lof was/is created for the devil and hos angels.
2) in the mew Jerusalem there is no sun because it says the father and son illuminate it
Exactly, the sun...as we know it now...is replaced by The Father and Son Christ.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
This tells me about you in essence. Remember I stated I never say things until I know, that I know, that I know its of God? The flip side is whenever, WHENEVER, I hear a truth from the Holy Spirit I know it, no matter who speaks it.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

So, we have 100 of understandings and you don't understand the Church is in terrible shape? And why is it? Because most are so busy with loving this evil world that the never hear the Spirit when it presents truths unto them. Most people are like Martha, they are so distracted with worldly things they miss the good thing (God/Jesus), Mary sat at Jesus' feet, and Martha was upset because she was doing all the work (preoccupied), but Jesus rebuked Martha, many people miss God's truths because they are too preoccupied with this worlds goings on. Whenever I see people mock the Holy Spirit like they do with Benny Hinn and others, I understand right away they have NO DISCERNEMENT whatsoever.

Likewise, I don't need no men's approval sir, I work of the Lord, the discernment of the things that are of God and which are not of God is on you. God will require us to explain why we got things wrong, and fir the most part, TBH, its because we do not spend enough time in the Spirit/in Prayer. So, the whole "Doctrinal understanding" falls on you and others. The Holy Spirit always understands the Holy Spirit. The spirit always bears witness of itself.


It needs not be stated, every grain has a FIRST-FRUIT, not just one grain. It simply means those that ripened first. So, ALL the Barley comes in before the Wheat mostly, but the Wheat still has a First-fruit, just like the Barley does.


Nothing is omitted, the thing that puts you down a rabbit hole here is not understanding that all grains and fruits have First-fruits. Yes, the 144,000 (3-5 million Jews who repent) are First fruits, as are the Raptured Church (Barley). As are the Wicked Grapes of Rev. 14:17-20.



What I get, reading on down, is you had a concept and you are seemingly stuck on it, you can't hear the words "You are wrong" thus the Barley can't come first even though it does. You go so far as to disagree with me about an article that clearly shows different, people do not just write articles without doing research, and even though this proves the Pre Trib Rapture (which I think you agree with) you can't bring yourself to shed that old argument of yours, like I did with Babylon being Rome. So, let me try this in another way, since I have always liked you, I think your heart is in the right place, you are not a wisenhiemer, most of the time you are earnest in thought. So, you think God will not give His revelation to one man who seeks harder than others? Its just the opposite, He gives us riddles because we SHOULD understand, but the world will not understand his truths!!

Matt. 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

So, we are given the keys (Spirit) to understand all these things, Jesus gave John in the book of Revelation (BoR), thus just like the parables he spoke unto the world, he likewise speaks in code/riddles/parables so to speak in the whole BoR.

So, Jesus in the BoR gives us Old Testament references and references to things he spoke during his lifetime on earth. In Matt. 13 we get the Wheat and the tares parable, Jesus says he came ONLY unto the Jews so the Jews who grow together with the wicked tares until the very end have to be the Wheat. The grapes are always used to infer the Judgment of God via placing the wicked in the Wine-press of His Wrath.

As I stated the other day, with modern machines, of course they now crush the barley just like the wheat, because it is easy to do that way. The reason Barley was considered a poor mans grain/bread 2000 years ago is that they could get by without crushing it, but you might find a few tough spots in it (husks) but with wheat that wouldn't work, so it had to be crushed. No ones saying you can't crush Barley and make it better, that goes without saying, but that is why Barley was cheaper at that time. In modern times we can get an ordinary car or one souped up. All cars ae not the same, likewise back in the day Barley was far cheaper because of the process/time it took. You citing the way modern Barley is harvested has no relevance to 2000 years ago.



We get the Three Harvests in Rev. 14, the whole problem you are having is you had something already solved in your mind and you seemingly can't get past that hurdle. Jesus shows up on the Mount, the Jews are not really with him, they are in the Petra/Bozrah Wilderness. Read Isaiah 63:1, he comes from Edom and Bozrah with blood stained garments. So, Jesus harvests the Wheat which has a First-fruits who are the 144,000 (that doesn't need to be said in reality, I however know why you mention it, because of the Pre Trib Rapture, they however are Barley First-fruits), but he doesn't actually bring them with him as he lands, it just showing Jesus is going to reign amongst his Jewish brothers in Jerusalem for 1000 years thus he is Harvesting them into His Barn so to speak like the parable says. Then in verse 14 we see Jesus Harvest not from the Mount in Jerusalem (this should be a HUGE CLUE for you) but from upon a cloud, just like the Scriptures say happen in the Pre Trib Rapture, we are called up to be with Jesus. He thrusts in the sickle himself. In the Rev. 14:17-20 Harvest an Angel thrusts in the Sickle. Jesus is is up on a cloud and you can't see that is the Rapture ? I don't get that thought thought process tbh !!

THINK HERE NOW

Israel is NEVER at the Wedding Supper and why would they be? This happens before the Beast is defeated, which is why Armageddon is the Wedding Super. That is also why Jesus has "Blood on his Garments" when he comes from Edom/Bozrah. Israel have the Fathers name imprinted on their foreheads as Rev. 14:1 clearly says, they are already married unto God the Father. A Bride only as one marriage and marriage supper, not two, Israel are the Fathers bride, we are Jesus' bride. Jacob had two wives, Leah and Rebecca, a foreshadowing of Israel and the Church. One was preferred and the other bride was forced so to speak.
""""It needs not be stated, every grain has a FIRST-FRUIT, not just one grain. It simply means those that ripened first. So, ALL the Barley comes in before the Wheat mostly, but the Wheat still has a First-fruit, just like the Barley does."""

So you need to admit the 144k are firstfruits.

AHEM.....Which you left out once again.
Yes all harvests have firstfruits.

For some reason, you need that 144k dynamic to be reframed.
And the gathering of 14:14 to be transposed as the main rapture of the church.
You recklessly apply 14:14 as the main rapture with the dead in christ gathered.

Nope...it is FOLLOWING FIRSTFRUITS. Jewish firstfruits.

So simple.

All harvests have firstfruits.
But you think , in your mind, firststfruits of grapes can be a stack of barley .
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
QUOTE BY RON;
""" Israel have the Fathers name imprinted on their foreheads as Rev. 14:1 clearly says, they are already married unto God the Father. A Bride only as one marriage and marriage supper, not two,..."""


nope
only the 144k.


the144k are in heaven in rev 14.
that is where the supper happens.


it is declared in the word of God, THEY ARE firstfruit Jews.
Hello....if no other jews meet them in heaven, they are not firstfruit ANYTHING.

SO YES
They do attend the supper.


we pretty much agree that the Jew is not the bride. Or gentile bride.
however... That can be a can of worms.
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
Another point: Undoubtedly the armies of the antichrist will already have taken the mark of the beast. They are unredeemable. Certainly the "mark" would be a requirement to be in that army to begin with...
Psa 68:18 You have ascended on high, You have led captive Your captives; You have received gifts among men, Even among the rebels also, that the LORD God may indwell.

Rev 13:10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

666 will know who the Captives/Slaves are because they do NOT have the mark OTB. The revived Beast/Rome traditionally put enemy captives on the points of their formations (human shields)​
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,005
8,373
113
Psa 68:18 You have ascended on high, You have led captive Your captives; You have received gifts among men, Even among the rebels also, that the LORD God may indwell.

Rev 13:10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

666 will know who the Captives/Slaves are because they do NOT have the mark OTB. The revived Beast/Rome traditionally put enemy captives on the points of their formations (human shields)​
I will have to disagree with you there. There is no possible way that those who do NOT take the mark of the beast will be allowed to participate in society in any substantial way. They certainly will not be trusted......only singled out and persecuted. No General put rebels at the head of an army.....
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
"the RCC Switched the Six Seal and 6th Trumpet"

You would have to provide supporting manuscript evidence to validate your claim. It all of my years I've never heard of this being a problem. Furthermore, In terms of flow and logic, the sixth trumpet follows the fifth trumpet perfectly IMO. I really don't see any problem there.
The Harlot is an organization having taken every possible plague out into the world while riding the back of the beasts of the world. The ones having tampered with the word of God are the ones having a wake of desolation written within the fabric of their History; even the infighting among "Her Daughters" is a pronounced detail among numerous historians from antiquity.​

The RCC insists that no one can calculate what is going on in Revelations; and that WAS at one time true.​

But God Calls for there to be Calculation!

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.​

No other literary work in Human History could ever be considered as important as the Revelations. We dare say it is a book second to no other, rich in metaphor and numeric calculation, and telling of the true Gospel. Yet no other book has so completely alluded us as to the full meaning God intended for it. In order to understand this mystery, it starts by first understanding where these truths came from, that is, originally.

Jhn 4:22 “You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews.”​

No other people of God were going to be so completely marred with violence than that of the Jews. For this reason the book of Revelations tells the story of Seven Beasts, that is, Empires having been influenced by the Scarlet Beast, which would be enemies of the truth.

Rom 1:18 The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.​

The Book of Daniel, along with many other prophecies throughout the Scriptures, is telling of the woman at the reins directing the beasts of the earth, yet she was destined to live securely while ridding all of these empires to their death.

Isa 47:8 “Now, then, hear this, you sensual one, who dwells securely, who says in your heart, ‘I am, and there is no one besides me. I will not sit as a widow, nor know loss of children.’”​

The book of Revelations paints the picture of who this woman is, and the relationships she’s held with the Beasts of the earth since the tower of Babel, when all of Her lovers were dispersed.

Isa 47:1 “Come down and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon; Sit on the ground without a throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans! For you shall no longer be called tender and delicate.”​

The book of Revelations was held to be a vendetta from the Jews on the empire that destroyed their Temple. Yet, “the eternal city,” Rome, would not have it, creating their own Twelve Apostles and Church; who through imposters, and later “Saint” Hippolytus of Rome, would set out to destroy the Jews.

Rev 2:2 “I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false.”​

2Co 11:13 These men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.​

So committed was the effort to destroy any Idea of the 6th Beast being Rome, that Satan had to divide His empire, separating it into the East and the West. But the “common clay” and the iron are mingled, not divided. These are two empires (which are now global) laying right over top of each other.

But a vendetta from the Jews had to be taken a step further (even from long ago,) that it was the Jews themselves that is the Great Harlot, not a Religious Hierarchy from Rome. And this is the Story of manuscripts (Copies) far removed from the originals, but with finger prints leading us back to the Truth.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
I'm with you. Jesus first comes for his saints and then comes again with his saints. Any other scenario and the logistics are absurd.
Actually, there is no other scenario in the Bible. The Bible teaches plainly that there will be A resurrection for the saved and A resurrection for the unsaved. That's 2 total.

Here are the verses:

Matt 22:30 - At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Singular

Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.” Count how many Jesus notes. I see "the resurrection". How do you get "waves" or "stages" or "series" from that? Greek is singular.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. Count how many resurrections. Paul says "A resurrection". One for the saved and one for the unsaved. The Greek is singular.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. “when He comes” is in the singular.

The thrust of ch 15 is all about the resurrection of believers. We know that Christ's resurrection is described as "first fruits" because He was the FIRST ONE to receive His resurrection body.

Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

Rev 20-

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

v.4 refers to believers who were martyred during the Tribulation. v.5 tells us plainly that they "came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years". And to top that off, that resurrection is described as the FIRST one. Since there is only 2, this one is for "those who belong to Him" from 1 Cor 15:23.

Finally, the Bible clearly includes the gathering (rapture) with the Second Advent.

2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,

Red = Second Advent

Blue = 'rapture'

This proves that the rapture, which occurs with the singular resurrection of the saved, happens "when He comes", referring to the Second Advent.

These verses are clear and undeniable.

If there were more than 1 resurrection of the saved, the Bible would have plainly said so. It doesn't, though.

And if Jesus is going to take resurrected and raptured believers up to heaven, the Bible would have plainly said so. It doesn't, though.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
""""It needs not be stated, every grain has a FIRST-FRUIT, not just one grain. It simply means those that ripened first. So, ALL the Barley comes in before the Wheat mostly, but the Wheat still has a First-fruit, just like the Barley does."""

So you need to admit the 144k are firstfruits.

AHEM.....Which you left out once again.
Yes all harvests have firstfruits.

For some reason, you need that 144k dynamic to be reframed.
And the gathering of 14:14 to be transposed as the main rapture of the church.
You recklessly apply 14:14 as the main rapture with the dead in christ gathered.

Nope...it is FOLLOWING FIRSTFRUITS. Jewish firstfruits.

So simple.

All harvests have firstfruits.
But you think , in your mind, firststfruits of grapes can be a stack of barley .
Again, the Bible clearly says there will be a resurrection of the saved and a resurrection of the unsaved. And Rev 20:5 describes the resurrection of tribulation martyrs as the FIRST resurrection, which means that's when ALL believers from all time will be resurrected. And raptured.

And no believer then goes up to heaven. They stay on earth for the Millennial reign of the King.
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
I will have to disagree with you there. There is no possible way that those who do NOT take the mark of the beast will be allowed to participate in society in any substantial way. They certainly will not be trusted......only singled out and persecuted. No General put rebels at the head of an army.....
The Roman Army forced someone to carry Savior's Post.

Your words are aimed to suppress what the words of Scriptures are plainly saying.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

And you don't provide any proof from scriptures to back up what you are saying.

People read what this Guy is saying!!!

If what you were saying here was true; then King David would have never made it to Heaven.

Psa 68:18 You have ascended on high, You have led captive Your captives; You have received gifts among men, Even among the rebels also, that the LORD God may indwell.​

Even the Sea of Glass in Heaven is mixed with the fires of their purification.

Rev 15:2 I saw something like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who had been victorious over the beast and his image and the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, holding harps of God.

Isa 22:14 The LORD of hosts revealed Himself to me, “Surely this iniquity shall not be forgiven you Until you die,” says the Lord GOD of hosts.​

CV5: Your not even as good a liar as Rondonmon or Charlie!!

The is the very essence of The RCC: never backing up what they say with the manuscripts they looted...
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
Well you got a couple things right.
Yes we see 3 gatherings in rev 14.

Yes rev 14: 14 can be called a rapture.

Maybe you got another point correct.
:coffee::coffee::coffee:

But no i see no wheat at all.
No barley anywhere.
The Parable of the Wheat and tares was about the Jews, we know this because........IF.........they as a nation are blinded until the Rapture, thus this is Jesus, in a parable, telling the Jewish peoples, that they will indeed be like unto the Tares who also go into the tribulation period, thus the Wheat and Tares GROW TOGETHER until the end. Every male Jew had to keep the three feasts every year for a reason, it pointed to Jesus, then the Church Age Rapture, then the Second coming.

Three Yearly Feasts

Exodus 23:14 “Three times each year you must hold a feast to honor me. 15 You must celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread in the way I commanded you. For seven days you must eat bread that is made without yeast at the set time during the month of Abib, the month when you came out of Egypt. No one is to come to worship me without bringing an offering.

16 “You must celebrate the Feast of Weeks. Offer to God the first things you harvest from the crops you planted in your fields.

“You must celebrate the Feast of Shelters in the fall, when you gather all the crops from your fields.

17 “So three times during every year all your males must come to worship the Lord God.

So, these yearly feast celebration pointed unto these end time events. They celebrated the Barley Harvest, Wheat Harvest and Grape Harvest also, Jesus stated the Wheat will grow with the tares until the very end. We know the Jews must go through the 70th week of Jacobs troubles, so they GROW TOGETHER with the wicked tares until the very end, THEN they will be separated from the tares. We also know that time and again God uses the Wine-press of His Wrath to illustrate how he judges the wicked, but just like the Gentile Rapture is a MYSTERY (Secret by God shutting His mouth) God also doesn't paint the picture of the Gentile Barley, but these same arguments are made against the Church being Raptured Pre Trib, the bible was about the Jews, so anything about the Gentile Church has to be dug out, if the Barley is Harvested first but Jesus told the Jews they were going to grow together with the tares until the very end, that should tell you the Gentile Church is the Barley, if Israel are the Wheat and the wicked get placed in the Wine-press of God's Wrath. I tend to looker at the deeper meaning of these parables then most.

And no...definately NO wedding supper at armageddon.
Of course Armageddon is the Marriage Supper.

We are Married to the Lamb in Rev 19, in Heaven, then when we return with Jesus in Rev. 19 we see this:

Rev. 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. (Jesus, his heavenly hosts, and the Church/Saints)

Its metaphoric, we are not eating their flesh, but this DEFEAT of the Wicked is our Marriage Supper. We know this by looking at Rev. 19:8-9.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

The Bride and Groom stay in the Marriage chambers 7 days (7 Years) then comes the Marriage Supper. Jesus in telling where he will NOT BE to the Jews who are in hiding in Matt. 24, who says don't look for me in the desert or secret chambers, then tells them where they can find him, but it is in a subdued manner, almost in riddle form.

Matt. 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

So, in verse 28 we get a hint that the Church who returns with him are considered fowls, Jesus is basically giving them a hint at where he will indeed be, not in the desert, not in a secret room, but he will come from the Eastern Skies, and wherever the Eagles are at is where the carcass is it means, wherever the Beast and his Armies (dead) are at is where Jesus will be at with his Armies, then in Rev. 19 the Church are called Fowls of Heaven.

Of course the Marriage Supper is Armageddon, in metaphor, we will be FEASTING on the Wicked. We who endured will now get our vengeance just like the Martyrs in Seal #5 were promised.

But for somecreason you keep transposing 144k into millions.

Maybe you can show us a formula for that.
This comes down to me understanding how the book of Revelation is laid out, only when one understands the Seals DO NOTHING, can they understand the 144,000 are the Fleeing Jews. You see, if the Seals are Judgments then this is all out of whack, but once we understand that the Judgments only start in Rev. 8 with the Trumpets, then we understand that anything before Rev. 8 is BEFORE the 1260 middle of the week, the Jews flee at the 1290, which comes 30 days before the 1260, thus in Rev. 7 it now makes PERFECT SENSE that God via an Angel says HOLD UP THE FOUR WINDS (Judgment) until the 144,000 are sealed. What is God going to say? These are my 4,734, 931? That's not how God works, the EXACT NUMBERS mean nothing, He uses certain numbers to represent Fulness and Completion and whenever He TIMES a number by 10 or 12 or even 7 it's like a MEGAPHONE MEASSGE, He is shouting unto us whenever he uses 7000 (7 x 10 x 10 x 10) or 10,000 x 10,000. He uses 7 eyes and 7 spirits in Revelation to tell us He sees all and is everywhere or omnipotent, God uses the 10 Commandments to represent All His laws in full, he uses 10 Virgin Brides to represent ALL Christendom, even us males :), God uses the 10 Horns and 10 Toes to represent All Europe coming back together in the end times, its not 10 Nations its the current E.U. who has over 25 nations. So, when God uses the numbers 10, 12 and 7 and especially when he TIMES THEM be each other, God is shouting this is COMPLETION !! It is not necessary that you or I know the exact number, but via the way God works in his "Parables" we know God does this so we can understand when hearing, but the world hearing will thus not understand His coming plans.

Thus, in Rev. 7 when God orders the Angel to HURT NOT the Trees, Seas, nor Earth until these 144,000 are Sealed and thus Protected, that means God is ordering the Angels to hold up the coming Trump Judgments which we know HURT the Trees, Earth and the Seas, until the 144,000 (all Jews who are Fleeing after they get saved or SEALED with the Holy Spirit) are Sealed and thus protected in the Petra/Bozrah Area. The fact that they need protection shows they are mere human beings. They need protection from what? The Trumpet Judgments, well, who does God protect in a unique place during the 70th week troubles for 1260 days? The Jews who REPENT (the Holy Spirt is our SEAL). Are they all Male virgins? Well, are the 10 Brides all Virgins? Of course not, we are Virgins in Christ Jesus who has thus made us whole, Jesus would not marry us unless we were "virgins". We thus put off the old and take on the new, we are NEW CREATURES.

Only when we understand who the 144,000 are can we get the actual numbers, we look in Zechariah 13:8-9 and it says very clearly that 1/3 of the Jews will repent, and God will call them His children again, and 2/3 will refuse to repent and thus will perish. Then in the VERY NEXT VERSE (Key...very key) we see that in Zechariah 14:1 the Day of the Lord arrives and Jerusalem/Israel is sacked by the Anti-Christ. So, that tells us the Jews repent JUST BEFORE the coming Day of the Lord. And if the Rev. 8 Trumps are the DOTL Middle of the week (it is) then the Rev. 7, 144,000 Jews who repent and flee Judea, are thus fleeing just before the m=Middle of the week DOTL.

Now, to all those who just can't quite see this, well, it couldn't be any more clearer to me in all honesty, lets add it up, 12 (Fulness) x 12 x 10 (Completeness) x 10 x 10 (144,000) thus = ALL Israel who repents. Just like the 10 Virgin Brides = ALL Christendom. Thus 1/3 of all people living in Israel now equals about 3 million because 10 million live in Israel. Worldwide there are 15 million Jews, thus 1/3 of that is 5 million. Thus I rightly say the 144,000 are 3-5 million Jews.
 

Friend

Active member
Dec 7, 2021
183
67
28
Not sure of hyour point here. But receiving a glorified body isn't about going to heaven.
I guess you didn't actually read my post. The single resurrection occurs when Jesus returns to earth, after the Tribulation. Then He sets up His 1,000 year reign. Then the present heaven and earth melt, and there will be a new heaven and earth. So, there is no time where believers in their glorified bodies will go up to heaven.
Luk 17:22 And He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His comings.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in our transgressions, He made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and will raise us up with Him, and seat us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
Rev 3:21 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, just as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Then following the SEVENS to the throne. Jesus Says:

Rev 1:20 a, c As for the mystery" (c) "the seven lampstands are the seven churches."

Co 6:14 Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power.

1Co 6:15 a Do you not know that your bodies are parts of Christ?

1Co 6:17 The one who joins himself to the Lord is one Spirit with Him.

1Co 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

Act 7:48 "However, the Most High does not dwell in handmade things/G5499; Just as the prophet says"​

G5499 χειροποίητος cheiropoíētos, khi-rop-oy'-ay-tos; from G5495 and a derivative of G4160; manufactured, i.e. of human construction:—made by (make with) hands.

2Co 3:17 "Now" the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Here's where Jesus says the overcomers will Go!! Do you Remember Revelation 3:21? But the following verse is Rev 3:12

Rev 3:12 ‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God: New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

Rev 21:22 I saw no temple in it, because the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

He who overcomes:

Rev 2:28 Jesus "will give him the morning star."

Mat 13:43 “Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Mat 5:14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.

Rev 5:3 And there was no one in heaven, or on the earth, or under the earth was able to open the book or to look into it.

And here's where the seven lampstands go! And notice that there is no one worthy in the heavens, earth, and under the earth; because they are all in the throne room; before the seals start breaking...

Rev 5:6, 9 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. 9 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. 10 "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

There are two more time we see a new song in Revelations, Denoting the competition of another resurrection of the righteous... From this point the Revelations go eighteen Chapters without even a single mention of the Church: Even the words of Jesus go silent from verse two of chapter four. With the exception of the Gospels no other part of the scriptures are so completely devoid of the word Church.

Even at 19 times, neither is there any part of the scriptures so filled with the word church as the first three chapters of Revelations.

Show us Some Scriptures; and not just one or two taken out of Context like the RCC does.
Show us Scriptures that are stating that these things are not true...​
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,020
1,268
113
For what it is worth...I believe the sun is/will be the hell.

The sun is the source of most life on the Earth so you think hell gives the world life?

I cannot agree.