Focus on Elementary Doctrines = An Immature Church

[Aaron56]

Hebrews 5:13,14 "For everyone who lives on milk is still an infant, inexperienced in the message of righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained their senses to distinguish good from evil."

Hebrews 6:1,2 "Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment."

The majority of discussions among believers seem to be about elementary principles: sin, salvation, baptisms, the law, faith, judgement, etc. This is indicative of inexperience and childishness. A child is focused on carnal things: where they get their food, will their needs be met, will they be protected, the avoidance of pain or unpleasantness, etc. While it is possible to have long discussions about each topic it is impossible to go deeply into any.

The preeminence of the "Gospel of Salvation" (GOS) is partly to blame, although it can be argued that without an audience no message prospers. However, the GOS was widely popular among the people of the world and, therefore, appealed to a people who had no interest in being reconciled to God; for them, it was enough to have a ticket to heaven when they died. And so, the church became more like the world and the darkness in the world, absent the light of men showing through the people of God, became darker. This metamorphosis into depravity has been active for many generations, now, to the point where the church thinks it is their duty to be involved in political matters of the world.

The real gospel, however, is the Gospel of Reconciliation. Adam was the "son of God" (Luke 3) and reconciliation necessarily requires a prior state into which to be reconciled. The message of the cross has always been about man being reconciled to his Father. It wasn't that Adam was displaced from heaven, it was that the glory of his relationship with his Father, because of Adam's sin, was abandoned by him. In the fall, Adam identified more with his flesh than his spirit and so his focus became one of provision, protection, and equilibrium. To be reconciled, however, he would have to find a way back to becoming a son in the image of his Father. Obsession with getting back to heaven seems like a doctrine the fallen angels would create; for they truly were cast from the heaven of God. Man, however, was born into the presence of God. It is no mystery why the spirits of those who die in Christ, today, return to God: it was man's original estate.

Be reconciled to God and the elementary things of Christ will settle in you. Then, you can go on to maturity and properly represent your Father in the earth.

Aaron56

 

[Gideon300]

Hebrews 5:13,14 "For everyone who lives on milk is still an infant, inexperienced in the message of righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained their senses to distinguish good from evil."

Hebrews 6:1,2 "Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment."

The majority of discussions among believers seem to be about elementary principles: sin, salvation, baptisms, the law, faith, judgement, etc. This is indicative of inexperience and childishness. A child is focused on carnal things: where they get their food, will their needs be met, will they be protected, the avoidance of pain or unpleasantness, etc. While it is possible to have long discussions about each topic it is impossible to go deeply into any.

The preeminence of the "Gospel of Salvation" (GOS) is partly to blame, although it can be argued that without an audience no message prospers. However, the GOS was widely popular among the people of the world and, therefore, appealed to a people who had no interest in being reconciled to God; for them, it was enough to have a ticket to heaven when they died. And so, the church became more like the world and the darkness in the world, absent the light of men showing through the people of God, became darker. This metamorphosis into depravity has been active for many generations, now, to the point where the church thinks it is their duty to be involved in political matters of the world.

The real gospel, however, is the Gospel of Reconciliation. Adam was the "son of God" (Luke 3) and reconciliation necessarily requires a prior state into which to be reconciled. The message of the cross has always been about man being reconciled to his Father. It wasn't that Adam was displaced from heaven, it was that the glory of his relationship with his Father, because of Adam's sin, was abandoned by him. In the fall, Adam identified more with his flesh than his spirit and so his focus became one of provision, protection, and equilibrium. To be reconciled, however, he would have to find a way back to becoming a son in the image of his Father. Obsession with getting back to heaven seems like a doctrine the fallen angels would create; for they truly were cast from the heaven of God. Man, however, was born into the presence of God. It is no mystery why the spirits of those who die in Christ, today, return to God: it was man's original estate.

Be reconciled to God and the elementary things of Christ will settle in you. Then, you can go on to maturity and properly represent your Father in the earth.

Aaron56

Few people know or preach the real gospel. It is the gospel of the Kingdom of God. It is offensive to the perishing and the greatest joy to those who are being saved. Most Christians see salvation as a one off event. That is only the beginning. When a person receives Christ, they are born again. That is when the process of salvation commences. It is a lifetime journey.

Lord Jesus came that we might have life, the uncreated life of God. It is the life represented by the Tree of Life in Eden. Adam chose the knowledge of good and evil instead. As an aside, this is the same choice that those wedded to the Law make.

Most Christians know Jesus as the Way and the Truth. Not nearly so many know Him as the Life. So most Christians live a life of striving and struggling, failure and defeat.

If we only knew it, we are already in heaven in spirit. We died and our lives are hidden in Christ with God. Where is Jesus now? That's where we are also.

 

[p_rehbein]

The majority of discussions among believers seem to be about elementary principles: sin, salvation, baptisms, the law, faith, judgement, etc. This is indicative of inexperience and childishness. A child is focused on carnal things: where they get their food, will their needs be met, will they be protected, the avoidance of pain or unpleasantness, etc. While it is possible to have long discussions about each topic it is impossible to go deeply into any.

Yes, and NO.


These "principles" you list are the focal point of the Gospel of Jesus. Now, it is true that Christians today understand them differently based on their Spiritual maturity, New believers, or believers who are viewing Christianity through earthly eyes see the earthly understanding of Scripture.

Those believers who have been sanctified through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit see Christianity through Spiritual eyes. Sanctified believers are on a path to grow in maturity and understanding of Scripture far above those who are still looking through earthly eyes, understanding,

The Gospel of Jesus is not ONLY about reconcilliation, albeit, reconcilliation is surely part of it. The Gospel of Jesus is about SALVATION, SANCTIFICATION AND JUSTIFICATION.

The Gospel of Jesus establishes Gods salvation plan for all mankind! "Whosoever believeth...,." It establishes the New Covenant, Grace!

 

[Gardenias]

Here is where we should be returning to now!They had ALL it takes, JESUS !

 

[Nehemiah6]

Obsession with getting back to heaven seems like a doctrine the fallen angels would create; for they truly were cast from the heaven of God.

Are you suggesting that the Christian's citizenship is NOT in Heaven, and that the eternal home of the saints is NOT in the New Jerusalem? If that's the case, then you yourself have gone off the rails.

For our conversation [citizenship] is in Heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (Philippians 3:20,21)

Those who are justified by grace and forgiven of their sins are indeed reconciled to God through the death of His Son.

ROMANS 5: RECONCILIATION IS AN ACCOMPLISHED FACT
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

So what do we learn from just this short passage?
1, While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
2. We have been justified by His blood.
3. We shall be saved from divine wrath through Him.
4. We are ALREADY reconciled to God.
5. We have now received the atonement (our sins have been paid for).
6. We can rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
7. Our Blessed Hope is the Resurrection/Rapture to Heaven.

The enmity between God and mankind was removed at the cross. So the believer is automatically reconciled to God through the blood of Christ. This is an act of God's grace, therefore the believer also receives the GIFT of salvation, and the GIFT of eternal life, along with the GIFT of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Blik]

Here is where we should be returning to now!They had ALL it takes, JESUS !
View attachment 234363

The early church focused on the fundamentals, even allowing different interpretations of what was not fundamental.

Romans 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.

The "mature" church has picked up doctrines that were established in church councils over the early years by men. The need is not for advanced scholars but to go to fundamentals and hold fast to them.

The early church felt that to accept Christ was to accept the way Christ told them to live. They thought of this change as having faith in Christ. Our mature churches feel that faith in Christ is simply knowing of the salvation Christ offers but does not require a working faith in His teachings.

 

[pottersclay]

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Here is where we should be returning to now!They had ALL it takes, JESUS !
View attachment 234363

there church was spent reading the word. having fellowship with each other, breaking bread (eating) and praying together.

they met more than on Sunday morning and wed night, the met often

They did not meet in a temple. they met in homes. The did not put on a production They had a gathering.

 

[Aaron56]

Acts 2:42 "And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers."

Sola Scriptura people have to wonder what "apostles' doctrine" was unless they're resigned to only the Old Testament being read. It is unlikely that much, if anything, had been written down by the disciples at that time save for perhaps journal entries.

The apostles' doctrine was actually what was taught, via word of mouth, by the sent ones. At that time it would have been the twelve teaching the people. And who better than those who were witness to the ministry of Jesus Christ up to and including His death and resurrection? Paul is not present here, neither is Barnabas or the other apostles.

 

[Blik]

there church was spent reading the word. having fellowship with each other, breaking bread (eating) and praying together.

they met more than on Sunday morning and wed night, the met often

They did not meet in a temple. they met in homes. The did not put on a production They had a gathering.

These are the surface fleshly things the early church did in response to the environment they lived in. Only looking at the surface as we study them would be like obeying the letter of the law and ignoring the spirit of the law. The spirit of the early church was that to follow Christ was not simply a matter of beliefs but was a matter of living a life led by Christ. To do this they carefully listened to Christ or the apostles trained by Christ and not to man. There were heresies but they were simply handled by clinging to the truth.

The church changed when Constantine decided to help the church grow and used what he knew about organizations to help it grow. God is spirit and the kingdom of heaven is not ruled by the ruled of the kingdom of the world. He changed the church. I became larger but lost its power.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

These are the surface fleshly things the early church did in response to the environment they lived in. Only looking at the surface as we study them would be like obeying the letter of the law and ignoring the spirit of the law. The spirit of the early church was that to follow Christ was not simply a matter of beliefs but was a matter of living a life led by Christ. To do this they carefully listened to Christ or the apostles trained by Christ and not to man. There were heresies but they were simply handled by clinging to the truth.

The church changed when Constantine decided to help the church grow and used what he knew about organizations to help it grow. God is spirit and the kingdom of heaven is not ruled by the ruled of the kingdom of the world. He changed the church. I became larger but lost its power.

you turn everything to law. I honestly worry about you.

The church today has turned the body of Christ into an artform or a play (look the the bullitins, its like a play with all these different scenes) . which is too focused on tradition. laws and what day we must meet, and not doing what the Lord sent us out to do.

Thats not what the church began as or how it was intended to be

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Acts 2:42 "And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers."

Sola Scriptura people have to wonder what "apostles' doctrine" was unless they're resigned to only the Old Testament being read. It is unlikely that much, if anything, had been written down by the disciples at that time save for perhaps journal entries.

The apostles' doctrine was actually what was taught, via word of mouth, by the sent ones. At that time it would have been the twelve teaching the people. And who better than those who were witness to the ministry of Jesus Christ up to and including His death and resurrection? Paul is not present here, neither is Barnabas or the other apostles.

amen we actually do know what they were preaching

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the four gospel accounts are a record of what the apostles taught . It’s why they wrote them down long after Jesus died near the ends of their own lives

the four gospels re the doctrine itself it’s almighty Gods doctrine the apostles ( 11 witnesses chosen by Christ naturally and Paul who was chosen flyer wards to replace Judas l had the same doctrine they taught.

Paul’s letter actually re evidence that he taught the same things Jesus taught nearly every teaching point of Christ Paul gives revelation into just like Peter or John who’s my personal favorite to read

Christs teachings are the entirety of Christian doctrine and what the apostles witnessed and wrote down and now has reached the living rooms in America the plains of Africa , the villages in Asia and spread out continually reaching out to the world

it’s always been puzzling to me how the church doesn’t grasp as a whole body that the four gospels red the center of every Christians belief and the promises of Christ for salvation . They were witnessing Gods doctrine that Christ Jesus taught them and commanded they preach to all

“Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it wouldn’t matter later which apostle witnessed the gospel they were all teaching the gospel Jesus preached first

“Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

For if the word spoken by angels ( the law of Moses ) was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, ( the gospel of the kingdom ) and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; ( the apostles )

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the apostles miracles were just a further witness of the truth of the one and only gospel.

 

[Gardenias]

amen we actually do know what they were preaching

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the four gospel accounts are a record of what the apostles taught . It’s why they wrote them down long after Jesus died near the ends of their own lives

the four gospels re the doctrine itself it’s almighty Gods doctrine the apostles ( 11 witnesses chosen by Christ naturally and Paul who was chosen flyer wards to replace Judas l had the same doctrine they taught.

Paul’s letter actually re evidence that he taught the same things Jesus taught nearly every teaching point of Christ Paul gives revelation into just like Peter or John who’s my personal favorite to read

Christs teachings are the entirety of Christian doctrine and what the apostles witnessed and wrote down and now has reached the living rooms in America the plains of Africa , the villages in Asia and spread out continually reaching out to the world

it’s always been puzzling to me how the church doesn’t grasp as a whole body that the four gospels red the center of every Christians belief and the promises of Christ for salvation . They were witnessing Gods doctrine that Christ Jesus taught them and commanded they preach to all

“Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it wouldn’t matter later which apostle witnessed the gospel they were all teaching the gospel Jesus preached first

“Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

For if the word spoken by angels ( the law of Moses ) was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, ( the gospel of the kingdom ) and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; ( the apostles )

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the apostles miracles were just a further witness of the truth of the one and only gospel.

Amen and Amen!

 

[Aaron56]

“There are many more things that Jesus did. If all of them were written down, I suppose that not even the world itself would have space for the books that would be written.”

Do you think they taught only what was recorded? Not likely. It only must he so to support an already held belief. Nevertheless, our unity is of the Spirit not of the Book. This separates the sons of God from other religious followers.

 

[Gardenias]

Going with the OP,I think we need more elementary DOCTRINES.

Churches have come away from what is real and what sayeth the word!

It's bent and twisted for conformity instead of renewing and TRANSFORMING!

People are NOT expecting to have to change in this day and age if they begin following Christ.

I agree we can Not choke them with the meat but we also should not be pushing them from the fundamental,foundational principles.

Every living thing or being grows at its own rate. If the ground is good soil and we keep it watered and supplied with nourishment,then WE must be patient and allow the Holy Spirit to do the work.

We want so much for people to get it...just get it but all have a season.

 

[Gardenias]

My other opinion is the order of maturity!

Salvation.....milk ( simple word)
Discipleship.... Growth( what is required to mature correctly )
Stewardship..... Fullness ( armoured and ready to proceed)

This way is easily understood if we geinuely care about others.

 

[Aaron56]

Thank you Pilgrim and Gardenias (my grandmother loved gardenias so I appreciate your name). I will write more about the 4 imperatives in Acts 2 tomorrow. I have an early meeting tomorrow that requires I turn in for the night.

Food for thought: is discipleship is key (which it is) who disciplines the believers? And what structure is required for the discipline of the church? We cannot say "Jesus" as men are likely to interpret whatever they think Jesus is saying to them according to their own desires. This is how we get the present condition of the church. There are many examples in scripture of the kind of discipline that I am referencing: we see it first with Jesus and His disciples. And then it appears in the sent ones to the ones under their watch.

Any way, the Lord willing, I will add more tomorrow.

Blessings and Goodnight,
Aaron56

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Going with the OP,I think we need more elementary DOCTRINES.

Churches have come away from what is real and what sayeth the word!

It's bent and twisted for conformity instead of renewing and TRANSFORMING!

People are NOT expecting to have to change in this day and age if they begin following Christ.

I agree we can Not choke them with the meat but we also should not be pushing them from the fundamental,foundational principles.

Every living thing or being grows at its own rate. If the ground is good soil and we keep it watered and supplied with nourishment,then WE must be patient and allow the Holy Spirit to do the work.

We want so much for people to get it...just get it but all have a season.

amen no one can even agree on basics lol we probably should get to the basic stuff and find agreement first and make that the founding of a church body like God designed

the revelation and maturity comes from eating the same nourishing foods daily and drinking the pure milk of Christ Jesus and the gospel Just simply to do this

He’s our everything

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free

from the law of sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul would add insight into Jesus words

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid!

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-18, 20-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

once we realize all of it goes together it’s all eyes on Christ or rather all ears tuned to the truth !!

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Today's Church has adopted the Worlds Viewpoint on what is Offensive.

Don't tell an alcoholic they're an alcoholic, don't tell a homosexual their lifestyle is a Sin, don't tell an Adulterer they are Committing Adultery, and so forth.

But the Early Church, Peter told the Jews, Hey, Remember Jesus, the One You Crucified..., Peter told Ananias, You Lied to the Holy Spirit...

If Today's Church just dealt with Sin being Sin and not worried about being Offensive, there would be no need for the fancy doctrines to Allure and Keep people coming.

 

[Blik]

you turn everything to law. I honestly worry about you.

The church today has turned the body of Christ into an artform or a play (look the the bullitins, its like a play with all these different scenes) . which is too focused on tradition. laws and what day we must meet, and not doing what the Lord sent us out to do.

Thats not what the church began as or how it was intended to be

My post did not mention law. your post does. Yet my post is read as "law", so what I say is tossed out because law, in today's church is a bad word.

Many Christians are in rebellion to living their faith saying that involves law and it is said Paul was against law. Paul believed in living for Christ, you cannot live for sin in rebellion to law and live for Christ.

Accepting sin, or rebellion to law, separates from Christ.