Does 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 Teach Jesus Will Return With Dead Saints Now With Him In Heaven?
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PUBG quote? 
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amen good stuff !
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:
that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
Romans 6:3-4 KJV
then we have Paul preaching the true gospel
“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
Colossians 3:1-3, 5-10, 12-16 KJV
what a church that would be
amen good stuff !
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:
that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
Romans 6:3-4 KJV
then we have Paul preaching the true gospel
“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
Colossians 3:1-3, 5-10, 12-16 KJV
what a church that would be
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Jesus taught this though are you teaching what Jesus taught that isn’t in scripture ? It seems your opposed to what Jesus taught in scripture
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24
“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
John 11:25-26 KJV
Also events that happen on scripture seem to oppose also
“And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24
“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
John 11:25-26 KJV
Also events that happen on scripture seem to oppose also
“And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-
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Do you still believe the wicked can partake in the "agape" love of God, though Scripture says the saints can tell we have God's "agape" if we're keeping His commandments (1 John 5:2-3 KJV) but the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV)?
If it fair to interrogate others but not submit yourself to interrogation, CompostMan?
If it fair to interrogate others but not submit yourself to interrogation, CompostMan?
Actually what Christ taught was the Believer's Soul departs and is Resurrected at physical death.
Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world."
Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world."
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amen Martha hadn’t been listening to his word like mary she was thinking ot thoughts. Lazarus rose a few minutes later and Jesus spoke to him as his body lay dead his spirit lay asleep until Christ called him forth to rise up
Jesus did the same thing for these folks
“And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
just like Lazarus they didn’t have to wait for the end of The world or the resurrection of the dead , they were called to Life by Jesus who is the resurrection and changes mans death forever when he entered death and conquered it now he holds the keys
“I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
Revelation 1:18 KJV
he opened up life for mankind again and saved us from death[/QUOTE]
amen Martha hadn’t been listening to his word like mary she was thinking ot thoughts. Lazarus rose a few minutes later and Jesus spoke to him as his body lay dead his spirit lay asleep until Christ called him forth to rise up
Jesus did the same thing for these folks
“And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
just like Lazarus they didn’t have to wait for the end of The world or the resurrection of the dead , they were called to Life by Jesus who is the resurrection and changes mans death forever when he entered death and conquered it now he holds the keys
“I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
Revelation 1:18 KJV
he opened up life for mankind again and saved us from death[/QUOTE]
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I add nothing! None of the answers given by the "immortal soul" crowd about 2 Corinthians 5 accounts for "naked" and "unclothed".
What we have here this:
What we have here this:
- Immortal Soul crowd creates an exegesis account deficit by an unauthorized withdrawal from the passage
- Phoneman777 comes along and makes an exegesis deposit whereby making back up the deficit
- Immortal Soul crowd wrongly perceives the deposit as "additional assets"
The dead flesh knows nothing. Those RAISED up RECOGNIZE each other. The Spiritually dead go down into darkness. They are not raised up. They know nothing till later.
Dead and spiritually dead, you seem to make no distinction. Earthy is SHED and heavenly GOES ON/RAISES UP. To every seed a body.
Can we be sure? YES
1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
JUST like there could be NO NEW COVENANT UNTIL THE OLD WAS DISPOSED OF, there can be no 'spiritual/heavenly/celestial body' until the FLESH ONE IS DISPOSED OF.
1Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest NOT THAT BODY THAT SHALL BE but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, AND TO EVERY SEED HIS OWN BODY
Dead and spiritually dead, you seem to make no distinction. Earthy is SHED and heavenly GOES ON/RAISES UP. To every seed a body.
Can we be sure? YES
1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
JUST like there could be NO NEW COVENANT UNTIL THE OLD WAS DISPOSED OF, there can be no 'spiritual/heavenly/celestial body' until the FLESH ONE IS DISPOSED OF.
1Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest NOT THAT BODY THAT SHALL BE but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, AND TO EVERY SEED HIS OWN BODY
I don't see that anywhere here taught. What the Bible says is the Body returns to the dust, the Breath of Life to God and the Soul, unable to continue to exist, ceases to exist.
Jesus is talking about "never die" the Second Death, not "never die" as in the Serpent's "not surely die" lie in Eden, which seems to be all the rage on CC.
Jesus is talking about "never die" the Second Death, not "never die" as in the Serpent's "not surely die" lie in Eden, which seems to be all the rage on CC.
I guess it was an evil spirit named Samuel.
And, you choose not to believe the wisest man who ever lived when he said "the dead know not anything"? IT WAS A DEMONIC FAMILIAR SPIRIT IMPERSONATING SAMUEL.
Martha specifically answers she knows at the Last Day he will resurrect.
Jesus answers and corrects her it happens before then.
Before then, means at death, something about us gets resurrected.
You can debate if that is the Soul or Spirit, but it sure is not the body that resurrects at physical death.
Jesus answers and corrects her it happens before then.
Before then, means at death, something about us gets resurrected.
You can debate if that is the Soul or Spirit, but it sure is not the body that resurrects at physical death.
That's why I pray for the "immortal soul" crowd ... who think God is worse than the vilest mass murdering despot ever to grace the topside of the Earth by their belief that He will torment the wicked for all eternity
Repent from such Religion of Exclusivity that is Eternal Torment, Luciferian Worship, Predestination, etc.
Repent from such Religion of Exclusivity that is Eternal Torment, Luciferian Worship, Predestination, etc.
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Ever read Hebrews 12:1 about the Cloud of Witnesses from Chapter 10 and 11 who is "watching us?"
How can they watch us, if their Soul/Spirit is still in the Grave?
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
How can they watch us, if their Soul/Spirit is still in the Grave?
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
'
'SOUL' needs to be read in all the contexts to understand what it is. BUT having a SEEN and an UNSEEN body makes the entire argument moot.
And formed 3335 YHVH God man 120 the dust 6083 of the ground 127 and breathed 5301 into his nostrils 639
the breath 5397 of life 2416 and became 1961 the man 120 a being 5315 living 2416
And formed
3335. yatsar ►
Strong's Concordance
yatsar: to form, fashion
Original Word: יָצַר
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: yatsar
Phonetic Spelling: (yaw-tsar')
Definition: to form, fashion
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to form, fashion
NASB Translation
Creator (1), devises (1), earthenware* (1), fashion (1), fashioned (1), fashioning (2), fashions (1), formed (20), forming (2), forms (2), made (1), Maker (2), maker (4), ordained (1), planned (4), potter (9), potter's (7), potters (1).
120. adam ►
Strong's Concordance
adam: man, mankind
Original Word: אָדָם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: adam
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-dawm')
Definition: man, mankind
6083. aphar ►
Strong's Concordance
aphar: dry earth, dust
Original Word: עָפָר
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: aphar
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-fawr')
Definition: dry earth, dust
5301. naphach ►
Strong's Concordance
naphach: to breathe, blow
Original Word: נָפַח
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: naphach
Phonetic Spelling: (naw-fakh')
Definition: to breathe, blow
639. aph ►
Strong's Concordance
aph: a nostril, nose, face, anger
Original Word: אַף
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: aph
Phonetic Spelling: (af)
Definition: a nostril, nose, face, anger
5397. neshamah ►
Strong's Concordance
neshamah: breath
Original Word: נְשָׁמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: neshamah
Phonetic Spelling: (nesh-aw-maw')
Definition: breath
2416. chay ►
Strong's Concordance
chay: age
Original Word: חַי
Part of Speech: Adjective; feminine; noun masculine; noun feminine; noun feminine; noun masculine; Adjective; noun feminine
Transliteration: chay
Phonetic Spelling: (khah'-ee)
Definition: alive, living
120. adam ►
Strong's Concordance
adam: man, mankind
Original Word: אָדָם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: adam
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-dawm')
Definition: man, mankind
5315. nephesh ►
Strong's Concordance
nephesh: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
Original Word: נֶפֶשׁ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: nephesh
Phonetic Spelling: (neh'-fesh)
Definition: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
2416. chay ►
Strong's Concordance
chay: age
Original Word: חַי
Part of Speech: Adjective; feminine; noun masculine; noun feminine; noun feminine; noun masculine; Adjective; noun feminine
Transliteration: chay
Phonetic Spelling: (khah'-ee)
Definition: alive, living
'SOUL' needs to be read in all the contexts to understand what it is. BUT having a SEEN and an UNSEEN body makes the entire argument moot.
And formed 3335 YHVH God man 120 the dust 6083 of the ground 127 and breathed 5301 into his nostrils 639
the breath 5397 of life 2416 and became 1961 the man 120 a being 5315 living 2416
And formed
3335. yatsar ►
Strong's Concordance
yatsar: to form, fashion
Original Word: יָצַר
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: yatsar
Phonetic Spelling: (yaw-tsar')
Definition: to form, fashion
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to form, fashion
NASB Translation
Creator (1), devises (1), earthenware* (1), fashion (1), fashioned (1), fashioning (2), fashions (1), formed (20), forming (2), forms (2), made (1), Maker (2), maker (4), ordained (1), planned (4), potter (9), potter's (7), potters (1).
120. adam ►
Strong's Concordance
adam: man, mankind
Original Word: אָדָם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: adam
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-dawm')
Definition: man, mankind
6083. aphar ►
Strong's Concordance
aphar: dry earth, dust
Original Word: עָפָר
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: aphar
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-fawr')
Definition: dry earth, dust
5301. naphach ►
Strong's Concordance
naphach: to breathe, blow
Original Word: נָפַח
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: naphach
Phonetic Spelling: (naw-fakh')
Definition: to breathe, blow
639. aph ►
Strong's Concordance
aph: a nostril, nose, face, anger
Original Word: אַף
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: aph
Phonetic Spelling: (af)
Definition: a nostril, nose, face, anger
5397. neshamah ►
Strong's Concordance
neshamah: breath
Original Word: נְשָׁמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: neshamah
Phonetic Spelling: (nesh-aw-maw')
Definition: breath
2416. chay ►
Strong's Concordance
chay: age
Original Word: חַי
Part of Speech: Adjective; feminine; noun masculine; noun feminine; noun feminine; noun masculine; Adjective; noun feminine
Transliteration: chay
Phonetic Spelling: (khah'-ee)
Definition: alive, living
120. adam ►
Strong's Concordance
adam: man, mankind
Original Word: אָדָם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: adam
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-dawm')
Definition: man, mankind
5315. nephesh ►
Strong's Concordance
nephesh: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
Original Word: נֶפֶשׁ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: nephesh
Phonetic Spelling: (neh'-fesh)
Definition: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
2416. chay ►
Strong's Concordance
chay: age
Original Word: חַי
Part of Speech: Adjective; feminine; noun masculine; noun feminine; noun feminine; noun masculine; Adjective; noun feminine
Transliteration: chay
Phonetic Spelling: (khah'-ee)
Definition: alive, living