Understanding the Trinity as a doctrine.
- Thread starter justbyfaith
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
friend there is no evidence that unicorns ever existed. I laugh because I do not think they ever existed.
"“Most likely, the south of Western Siberia was a [refuge], where this rhino had preserved the longest in comparison with the rest of the range,” said Tomsk State University scientist Andrei Shpansky, who published the findings. "
https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/29/living/real-unicorn-remains/index.html
"Thanks to a newly discovered skull fossil found in the Pavlodar region of Kazakhstan, we now know that the unicorn — or "Elasmotherium sibiricum" — roamed the planet roughly 29,000 years ago and looked more like a rhinoceros than a horse. " https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/entertainment/news/a37608/unicorns-are-real-fossils/
The above stories are based on American Journal of Applied Sciences article "
The Quaternary Mammals from Kozhamzhar Locality (Pavlodar Region, Kazakhstan)"
"
Abstract
A new locality of fossil mammals near Kozhamzhar in Pavlodar Priirtysh Region has been described. The article provides the description of the quaternary sediments section found in the outcrop near Kozhamzhar. In the Karginian Age (MIS 3) alluvial deposits of the described locality we found the remains of Elasmotherium sibiricum, Mammuthus ex gr. trogontherii-chosaricus, Mammuthus primigenius, Bison sp. AMS Radiocarbon dating of the Elasmotherium skull gave a young age-26038±356 BP (UBA-30522). The skull of Elasmotherium sibiricum exceeds in size the skull of the mammals from Eastern Europe. The lower jaw of the elephant, considering the size and the morphology of the last dentition teeth, is very close to that of Mammuthus trogontherii chosaricus.
American Journal of Applied Sciences
Volume 13 No. 2, 2016, 189-199
DOI: https://doi.org/10.3844/ajassp.2016.189.199
"https://thescipub.com/abstract/ajassp.2016.189.199
Thus no proof they ever existed.
"“Most likely, the south of Western Siberia was a [refuge], where this rhino had preserved the longest in comparison with the rest of the range,” said Tomsk State University scientist Andrei Shpansky, who published the findings. "
https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/29/living/real-unicorn-remains/index.html
"Thanks to a newly discovered skull fossil found in the Pavlodar region of Kazakhstan, we now know that the unicorn — or "Elasmotherium sibiricum" — roamed the planet roughly 29,000 years ago and looked more like a rhinoceros than a horse. " https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/entertainment/news/a37608/unicorns-are-real-fossils/
The above stories are based on American Journal of Applied Sciences article "
The Quaternary Mammals from Kozhamzhar Locality (Pavlodar Region, Kazakhstan)"
"
Abstract
A new locality of fossil mammals near Kozhamzhar in Pavlodar Priirtysh Region has been described. The article provides the description of the quaternary sediments section found in the outcrop near Kozhamzhar. In the Karginian Age (MIS 3) alluvial deposits of the described locality we found the remains of Elasmotherium sibiricum, Mammuthus ex gr. trogontherii-chosaricus, Mammuthus primigenius, Bison sp. AMS Radiocarbon dating of the Elasmotherium skull gave a young age-26038±356 BP (UBA-30522). The skull of Elasmotherium sibiricum exceeds in size the skull of the mammals from Eastern Europe. The lower jaw of the elephant, considering the size and the morphology of the last dentition teeth, is very close to that of Mammuthus trogontherii chosaricus.
American Journal of Applied Sciences
Volume 13 No. 2, 2016, 189-199
DOI: https://doi.org/10.3844/ajassp.2016.189.199
"https://thescipub.com/abstract/ajassp.2016.189.199
Thus no proof they ever existed.
Not in the Hebrew it does not.
Fact remains I showed that there is no physical evidence or remains that it existed. The word Unicorn is mistranslated in the Septuagint and the Vulgate. It is plan and simply a mistranslation through means of Greek and Latin.
"Rendering in the Authorized Version of the Hebrew
or
, following the Septuagint and the Vulgate. Aquila and Saadia, on Job xxxix. 9, read "rhinoceros"; Bochart ("Hierozoicon") and others, "oryx," or "white antelope"; Revised Version, "wild ox" (margin, "ox-antelope"). The allusions to the "re'em" as a wild, untamable animal of great strength and agility, with mighty horns (Job xxxix. 9-12; Ps. xxii. 21, xxix. 6; Num. xxiii. 22, xxiv. 8; Deut. xxxiii. 17; comp. Ps. xcii. 11), best fit the aurochs (Bos primigenius). This view is supported by the Assyrian "rimu," which is often used as a metaphor of strength, and is depicted as a powerful, fierce, wild, or mountain bull with large horns. The term evidently denotes from its connection some animal of the bovine or antelope class, perhaps the oryx (so LXX.). The oryx, as well as the wild bull and ox, is common in Palestine and Syria; and aurochs' teeth were found by Tristram on the flooring of an ancient cave in the Lebanon. " https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12725-rhinoceros
Deuteronomy 33:17
His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
Psalm 22:21
Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
"
The unicorn is mentioned in the King James Version of the Bible as a rendering for the Hebrew word re’em and is used as a metaphor for strength. It is found eight times in the Old Testament. The allusion of a re’em is that of a wild, untamable animal of great strength and agility with a mighty horn or horns. However, the translators of the KJV followed the Septuagint uses the Greek word monokeros for the Hebrew word re’em and the Latin unicornis. Since the KJV, however, modern Archeologist have discovered a similar word in the Akkadian rimu from the same Semitic root and it is a reference to the aurochs a known species of a wild bull like or bison like animal that went extinct around 1627. It is related to the buffalo and wild yak, both very powerful creatures with two horns.
For this reason, you will not find the English word unicorn in your modern translations, they will render it was a wild ox or even a rhinoceros. Some may just transliterate the Hebrew to re’em. However, Bible scholars and linguists agree that the reference is to a wild bull like or ox-like creature and unicorn is really not an appropriate rendering. In fact, the most recent revision of the KJV has dropped the word unicorn in favor of a wild ox."
https://www.chaimbentorah.com/2020/04/hebrew-word-study-unicorn/
"
In several passages (Numbers 23:22, 24:8; Deuteronomy 33:17; Job 39:9-10; Psalm 22:21, 29:6; Isaiah 34:7), the King James Version of the Bible mentions a unicorn. The original Hebrew is the word re’em which was translated monokeros in the Septuagint and unicornis in the Latin Vulgate. Later versions use the phrase “wild ox.” The original Hebrew word basically means “beast with a horn.” One possible interpretation is the rhinoceros. But since the Hebrew tow’apaha in Numbers 23:22 refers to more than one horn, it’s likely the translators of the Septuagint used creative license to infer a wild and powerful, but recognizable animal for their versions.
The re’em is believed to refer to aurochs or urus, large cattle which roamed Europe and Asia in ancient times. Aurochs stood over six feet tall and were the ancestors of domestic cattle. They became extinct in the 1600s. In the Bible, the “wild ox” usually refers to someone with great power. In Numbers 23:22 and 24:8, God compares His own strength to that of a wild ox. In Psalm 22:21, David imagines his enemies as wild oxen. The bull represented several different deities including Baal, Moloch, and the Egyptian Apis. The Israelites tried to adopt these beliefs when they made the golden calf.
Whether the re’em refers to a rhinocerous, or an auroch, or some other horned animal, the image is the same—that of an untamable, ferocious, powerful, wild animal. What we do know is that the Bible is not referring to the mythological “unicorn,” the horse-with-a-horn creature of fairy tales and fantasy literature. It is highly unlikely that the KJV translators believed in the mythological unicorn. Rather, they simply used the Latin term that described a “beast with a horn.” " https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-unicorn.html
Fact remains I showed that there is no physical evidence or remains that it existed. The word Unicorn is mistranslated in the Septuagint and the Vulgate. It is plan and simply a mistranslation through means of Greek and Latin.
"Rendering in the Authorized Version of the Hebrew
Deuteronomy 33:17
His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
Psalm 22:21
Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
"
The unicorn is mentioned in the King James Version of the Bible as a rendering for the Hebrew word re’em and is used as a metaphor for strength. It is found eight times in the Old Testament. The allusion of a re’em is that of a wild, untamable animal of great strength and agility with a mighty horn or horns. However, the translators of the KJV followed the Septuagint uses the Greek word monokeros for the Hebrew word re’em and the Latin unicornis. Since the KJV, however, modern Archeologist have discovered a similar word in the Akkadian rimu from the same Semitic root and it is a reference to the aurochs a known species of a wild bull like or bison like animal that went extinct around 1627. It is related to the buffalo and wild yak, both very powerful creatures with two horns.
For this reason, you will not find the English word unicorn in your modern translations, they will render it was a wild ox or even a rhinoceros. Some may just transliterate the Hebrew to re’em. However, Bible scholars and linguists agree that the reference is to a wild bull like or ox-like creature and unicorn is really not an appropriate rendering. In fact, the most recent revision of the KJV has dropped the word unicorn in favor of a wild ox."
https://www.chaimbentorah.com/2020/04/hebrew-word-study-unicorn/
"
In several passages (Numbers 23:22, 24:8; Deuteronomy 33:17; Job 39:9-10; Psalm 22:21, 29:6; Isaiah 34:7), the King James Version of the Bible mentions a unicorn. The original Hebrew is the word re’em which was translated monokeros in the Septuagint and unicornis in the Latin Vulgate. Later versions use the phrase “wild ox.” The original Hebrew word basically means “beast with a horn.” One possible interpretation is the rhinoceros. But since the Hebrew tow’apaha in Numbers 23:22 refers to more than one horn, it’s likely the translators of the Septuagint used creative license to infer a wild and powerful, but recognizable animal for their versions.
The re’em is believed to refer to aurochs or urus, large cattle which roamed Europe and Asia in ancient times. Aurochs stood over six feet tall and were the ancestors of domestic cattle. They became extinct in the 1600s. In the Bible, the “wild ox” usually refers to someone with great power. In Numbers 23:22 and 24:8, God compares His own strength to that of a wild ox. In Psalm 22:21, David imagines his enemies as wild oxen. The bull represented several different deities including Baal, Moloch, and the Egyptian Apis. The Israelites tried to adopt these beliefs when they made the golden calf.
Whether the re’em refers to a rhinocerous, or an auroch, or some other horned animal, the image is the same—that of an untamable, ferocious, powerful, wild animal. What we do know is that the Bible is not referring to the mythological “unicorn,” the horse-with-a-horn creature of fairy tales and fantasy literature. It is highly unlikely that the KJV translators believed in the mythological unicorn. Rather, they simply used the Latin term that described a “beast with a horn.” " https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-unicorn.html
In every occurrence of the English word “unicorn,” it is the same Hebrew word ראם reym.
Of course, critics will just say that the Bible translators altered the English to escape the inclusion of mythical creatures. But again, they must realize that the KJV is in English and it is the English they are complaining about, not the original Hebrew word.
The LXX (The Greek translation of the Old Testament done around 250 B.C.) says of Job 39:9, βουλήσεται δέ σοι μονόκερως δουλεῦσαι ἢ κοιμηθῆναι ἐπὶ φάτνης σου. The Greek word μονόκερως monokeros is what the Hebrews tranlsated the Hebrew word רְאֵם reym into. It is an unfortunate rendering. It literally means “one horn,” and this is why the KJV rendered it as unicorn since it was using the LXX and not the original Hebrew here.
https://carm.org/about-the-bible/why-does-the-bible-mention-the-mythical-unicorn/
- רְאֵם [râʾem, râʾeym, reym, rem /reh·ame/] n m. From 7213; TWOT 2096a; GK 8028; Nine occurrences; AV translates as “unicorn” nine times. 1 probably the great aurochs or wild bulls which are now extinct. The exact meaning is not known.1
- reem or רְאֵים reem or רֵים rem or רֵם rem (910b); from 7213; a wild ox:—wild ox(7), wild oxen(2).2
- 8028 רְאֵם (reʾēm): n.masc.; ≡ Str 7214; TWOT 2096a—1. LN 4.1–4.37 (most versions) wild ox, aurochs, i.e., an extinct, long-horned, ancestor of the domestic cattle, Bos primigenius bojanus (Nu 23:22; 24:8; Dt 33:17; Job 39:9, 10; Ps 22:21[EB 21]; 92:11[EB 10]; Isa 34:7+), note: kjv, lxx, VULG. translate as a single-horned animal, such as rhinoceros or mysterious unicorn; 2. LN 4.1–4.37 unit: בֵּן רְאֵם (bēn reʾēm) adolescent wild ox, i.e., a non-domestic ox likely under two years old (Ps 29:6+)3
Of course, critics will just say that the Bible translators altered the English to escape the inclusion of mythical creatures. But again, they must realize that the KJV is in English and it is the English they are complaining about, not the original Hebrew word.
- UNICORN kjv rendering for an animal called a “wild ox” in the nlt and most modern translations (Nm 24:8; Dt 33:17). Unicorn is an unfortunate translation (following the Septuagint) because the animal had two horns, not one. See Animals (Wild Ox). 4
- Unicorn — described as an animal of great ferocity and strength (Num. 23:22), R.V., “wild ox,” marg., “ox-antelope;” 24:8; Isa. 34:7, R.V., “wild oxen”), and untamable (Job 39:9). It was in reality a two-horned animal; but the exact reference of the word so rendered (reem) is doubtful. Some have supposed it to be the buffalo; others, the white antelope, called by the Arabs rim. Most probably, however, the word denotes the Bos primigenius (“primitive ox”), which is now extinct all over the world. This was the auerochs of the Germans, and the urus described by Caesar (Gal. Bel., vi.28) as inhabiting the Hercynian forest. The word thus rendered has been found in an Assyrian inscription written over the wild ox or bison, which some also suppose to be the animal intended (comp. Deut. 33:17; Ps. 22:21; 29:6; 92:10).5
The LXX (The Greek translation of the Old Testament done around 250 B.C.) says of Job 39:9, βουλήσεται δέ σοι μονόκερως δουλεῦσαι ἢ κοιμηθῆναι ἐπὶ φάτνης σου. The Greek word μονόκερως monokeros is what the Hebrews tranlsated the Hebrew word רְאֵם reym into. It is an unfortunate rendering. It literally means “one horn,” and this is why the KJV rendered it as unicorn since it was using the LXX and not the original Hebrew here.
https://carm.org/about-the-bible/why-does-the-bible-mention-the-mythical-unicorn/
Strong's Number: H7214
Hebrew Base Word: רְאֵם
Part of speech: Noun Masculine
Usage: Unicorn
Definition: A wild bull (from its conspicuousness).
Detailed definition:
Probably the great aurochs or wild bulls which are now extinct. The exact meaning is not known.
Derived terms: Or רְאֵים; or רֵים; or רֵם; from H7213.
Hebrew Base Word: רְאֵם
Part of speech: Noun Masculine
Usage: Unicorn
Definition: A wild bull (from its conspicuousness).
Detailed definition:
Probably the great aurochs or wild bulls which are now extinct. The exact meaning is not known.
Derived terms: Or רְאֵים; or רֵים; or רֵם; from H7213.
